This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...1#post14416521

I agree on the battery backup. I've got mine on the same Belkin battery that my TV and satellite box are on -- but that's just to keep everything going until the generator kicks in!

Split!!!!
 

Now that the thread has split it's about time for an overview of the system to update people on the progress that has been made since the thread started.

I'd like to give a big thanks to all the people who have followed this thread and popped in with advice and suggestions. I would not have been able to tackle such a large project without the collective knowledge of RC and I would have missed more than a few mistakes without the due diligence of a whole throng of forum goers. And of course it wouldn't be possible without the immense patience of my wife Caroline :)

Here is a recent FTS (From Friday Feb 13).

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/2009/0214/fts_01.jpg

Water Parameters:
Temp: 79F
sg: 1.0265
pH: 8.05
Alk: 8.6 dkh
Ca: 440ppm
NO3: Undetectable
PO4: Undetectable
Mg: 1600ppm
ORP: ~315mv


Current Fish List:
1 x Powder Brown Tang
1 x Midas Blenny
1 x Male Lyretail Anthias
2 x Female Lyretail Anthias
2 x Blue-Green Chromis

Basic system outline:

Display tank:
- 72x24x30" 3/4" starphire front and side panels.
- 220G Nominal, realistically 180-200G.
- Two corner overflows, each with 1.5" durso drain and 1" return

Lighting:
- MH reflectors are now LumenMax Elite's
- 2 x 250w MH Hamilton 14k on PFO E-Ballasts (sides)
- 1 x 400w MH Radium 20k on Icecap E-Ballast (center)
- 2 x 140w T12 UVL Super Actinic on Icecap 660 ballast
- 2 x 80w T5 ATI Blue Plus on Icecap 660 ballast (overdriven)
- DIY LED Backlight for that ocean look

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...umenmax_01.jpg

Flow:
- Sequence Barracuda Return pump (also feeds all tanks in the fishroom)
- Sequence Dart on closed loop (previously ran an OM-4way but stopped after repeated jamming issues)
- 2 x Tunze 6201 controlled via Profilux for extra randomness/surge simulation (lately only been running one of them, I need to make new mounts since the mounts built into the aquascape don't let me move the pumps high enough, too much direct flow is hitting corals)
- 2 x MP40 Vortech Powerhead. Really loving the Vortechs so far. The undercurrent they make is great!

Filtration:
- 70 gallon sump located in Remote Fish-Room (~30G operating volume)
- 6" DSB in the Display tank consisting mostly of Sugarfine argonite
- Bubble King 250 Supermarin Protein Skimmer
- 1 x TLS phosban reactor for carbon (I quit using the PhosGuard and haven’t seen any phosphates yet)
- 50G refugium with SSB, some rock, and cheato

Heating/Cooling:
- 1250w of Titanium Heaters controlled via Single Stage Ranco
- 1/2 hp Tradewinds Inline Chiller controlled via Single Stage Ranco
- 2 Icecap fans mounted in Canopy


Misc:
- Profilux controller
- Optical level sensor controls Profilux Dosing pump, all RO water is fed through Precision Marine KR620 Kalk reactor
- 5-stage RODI unit: Zetazorb Prefilter -> 0.5 micron carbon -> 90gpd 98% RO membrane -> Maxcap DI -> SilicaBuster DI->

Fishroom:
- 50g mixing/water changing tank (DIY Acrylic tank, 36x18x18)
- 35G frag tank lit with ATI 4x39W T5 fixture (DIY Acrylic tank, 36x18x12)
- 50G refugium with SSB, some rock, and cheato (DIY Acrylic tank, 36x18x18)
- 70 gallon sump located in Remote Fish-Room (~30G operating volume, made by Aquariums For You).

In order to give more space to do all of the things I wanted to do with the system, the sump was placed in the garage in a stand made to hold various tanks.

The plumbing runs in the crawlspace to the display tank.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...t/fishroom.jpg

Close-up of the sump:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...it/sump_01.jpg

This old WIP shot shows where the plumbing enters the garage wall. The unfinished pipe is the 2” drain. It now goes through a filter sock in the sump, mainly to help eliminate microbubbles. Eventually a better solution would be to build a bubble tower.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...eturn_sump.jpg

All return water passes through the chiller outside before getting to the display tank. The display tank is right on the other side of the wall from the chiller. I was lucky that the crawlspace access point was right there:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...it/chiller.jpg

(still need to put pipe insulation on those pipes; just got my order from grainger so should have time soon)

The drain/return plumbing and closed loop in the stand:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...t/plumbing.jpg

The Mixing Tank:

The Mixing tank makes water changes much easier. During normal operation, the tank is actively circulated with the rest of the water volume, acting like any other tank (water overflows back to the sump). Water is fed through the 1/2" pipe on the right, which forces the water to the bottom of the mixing tank.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...mixingtank.jpg

In order to do a water change, the following steps need to be done:

1) Close the 1/2" Ball valve feeding the Mixing tank
2) Close the 1" Ball valve on the drain to keep excess water from flowing to the sump
3) Drain the tank: Open the 3/4" ball valve UNDER the mixing tank which goes straight to the Sewer.
...wait a few minutes for it to drain...
4) Open the 1/4" JG Ball valve which allows water to drain from the RO Reservoir
...wait a day or so...
5) Close the 1/4" JG Ball valve
6) Turn on the Mixing Powerheads (Modded Maxi Jets)
7) Add Salt. In this ~50G mixing tank, 1 cup of salt = ~0.001 sg, so I need to add about 26 cups to get 1.0265 sg.
...wait until water is clear...
8) Open the 1" Ball valve allowing the Mixing tank to overflow to the sump
9) Open the 1/2" Ball valve which feeds the mixing tank with water from the Sump (via Barracuda Return)

Looks like alot, but it really boils down to turning a few valves and lots of waiting :)

The benefits are that I never have to shut off the return pump, use a siphon, or carry any buckets around to do a relatively large water change. Water changes are also gradual with this setup. Water will only overflow to the sump as quickly as I let it enter the mixing tank through the 1/2" ball valve.

Another benefit is that I can take the mixing tank "offline" whenever I need to and can use that water for drip acclimation for multiple fish/coral without changing the water level in my sump or worrying about replacing too much lost SW with RO water through topoff. Afterwards I just need to top-off the mixing tank and add a few cups of salt to get the salinity back up and then put it back "online".

This shot of the plumbing in progress shows 3 drain pipes about to enter the sump: Mixing tank, Refugium and Frag tank. The mixing tank is fed from the 1/2" PVC that extends past the manifold:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...r_manifold.jpg


The RODI System

As some of you may recall, I was caught wasting A LOT of water through my RODI unit because it was feeding the reservoir with a float valve. The issue was that when the float valve was ALMOST closed - and thus only dripping product water - the RO Waste was still running at full clip!! And since I was only using this tank for topoff (and weekly waterchanges), that was the case most of the time :( Of course my mistake seems obvious now...

To replace the float valve, a solenoid and latching relay with two float switches were added (autotopoff.com).

I finally got around to mounting the float switches. The provided mounting hardware was not long enough for the euro-brace or the height of my RO Reservoir, so I had to make one out of scrap acrylic:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/2009/split/ro.jpg

Now that the float-valve is gone from the RODI, the angled anti-splash shield is working perfectly :) No more splashes in the RO Reservoir :lol:


The Refugium

The refugium provides a breeding ground for plankton as well as a growth zone for macro algae to help remove nutrients from the water. Nitrates and phosphates have always been undetectable in this system, which may be a little TOO nutrient starved. Since I've had some issues with certain corals getting more pale, I recently threw out more than half of the cheato since it was showing poor growth and yellow tips. Also started dosing chelated iron.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...efugium_01.jpg

I've never cleaned the acrylic in the refugium. I can kind of tell how much I've been feeding the tank by how thick the algae on the front pane gets. In the past it almost got completely clean by itself (about when my monti's started fading). Increased feedings have shown a slight increase in this algae. If it gets out of hand I will reduce feeding slightly.

The Aquascape

It was a goal from the start of this project to conceal as much equipment in the display tank as possible while keeping as much open swimming space as possible. I did not want it to feel very crowded.

The first job was to create rock covers for the overflows, which would help the background blend in with the aquascape.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/tankshot_01.jpg

I used a method called the Rock Foam method by some on this board. Some will know it as the Tiggsy Method although this method has been around a while and evolved to what it is now.

First 1/2" PVC structures were built to the dimensions of the overflows. Eggcrate and dry rocks were zip-tied to this frame through holes drilled in the pipes.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...quascape01.jpg

Pond Foam in a spray can was then used to fill in all the gaps in the rocks. After the foam was done expanding, the excess was cut off with a razor blade. Then West Systems Epoxy Resin was used to stick aragonite sand and crushed coral over the foam.

This is after the first application of sand to cover the foam:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...pe_sand_01.jpg

After three coats of epoxy resin and sand I could no longer tell rock from foam and I was pretty happy with the results:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...pillars_02.jpg

I waited two weeks for the epoxy to cure and them put them in the tank. One of the 'pillars' was floating up at an angle when submerged, so I had to go cut out more foam from the rear and bottom, and then I filled the empty space with cement just to be sure it would sink.

This is the tank with the overflow covers, the rest of the aquascape is simply a mix of dry and live rock stacked on top of the sand bed (messed with using PVC frames for the rest of the aquascape but it proved problematic to align them with the DSB):

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...it/rocks01.jpg

The rest of the aquascape only took a few hours, and has not changed too much since the first pass:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/aquascape_01.jpg

I will try to get time to post some updated coral and fish shots.

This pic shows the distance from the fishroom to the display tank better. About 25 feet IIRC...

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/1206/fishroom01.jpg

Do people subscribed to the old thread get email updates after the split, or do they have to post in the new thread?

Wow that is one sweet build:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I envy your clean setup.

I was subscribed to the old thread and got an email notification for this one, congratulations on the split!

I love that fish room, I hope I can incorporate a water change system similar to that when I upgrade my tank.

i had forgotten how incredible your entire set up is ryan! thanks for the recap.

dp :rolleyes:

btw, i still got notification after the split, unless it was from a post before the split happened???

thanks everyone


Overall I am happy with the way the tank is progressing, but there is already a growing list of things I wish I could change, but can't really change about this system....rather things to keep in mind when designing the NEXT tank one day down the road. Maybe something will influence somebody else to make a better decision in planning...




-I HATE-HATE-HATE the super thick eurobracing and center braces that cover my tank. I'll have to dig up a pic of it, but I basically have three 16x16" holes to access the tank. I actually had to saw one of the rock structures in half and epoxy it back together inside the tank to get it inside the bracing :lol: Having 2 center braces basically forces me to use 3 MH pendants to avoid the shadowing artifacts. I'd really love to have 4 halides on this tank :)


-Hate that my tank is practically up against the wall. After spending time picking up dropped frags, metal screws, and hunting for vermetid snails, I REALLY wish I could just go behind the tank for full access.

-I hid some of the wiring in the fishroom too well. I did most of the wiring BEFORE adding the acrylic tanks, and wires run in channels behind the frame. Of course its a pain to extract wires now if I need to. It can be done, but every time it's a reminder that I didn't think about the logistics there....

-I wish I had used Herbie drains instead of durso's. Basically herbies would be silent and reduce salt creep and bubbles in the sump, but require adding an additional drainage bulkhead per overflow and separate plumbing runs to the sump.

-24" tank width is really limiting for a "largish" reef. It limits the aquascaping MUCH more than I anticipated. Doesn't leave enough room to use the better larger MH reflectors and still fit in enough supplemental lighting. I'm kicking myself for not going 36" :)


-As much as I love the valley-style aquascape that my Overflow pillars create, my next tank will not have any rockwork near the glass or corners of the tank. Sure I have been able to eliminate flow deadspots with specialized pumps placed just so (MP40s), but this could be accomplished more effectively with less energy by utilizing more of a gyree type flow; by orienting the flow devices to get the water in the tank going in a whirlpool. Rock obstructions against the sides and corners are a big wrench in the gears.



-Ok heres one I can actually do something about: Still operating with only a single drain bulkhead for the Refugium, Mixing tank and Frag tank. This was brought up at the start of the thread; I really should add emergency drains. Right now I'm not adding enough flow to the refugium for the cheato to tumble , since I am afraid that will encourage bits of cheato to clog up the drainage strainer.


-The blue background backlight is too "purple-blue" instead of the "green-blue" I was hoping for. Alas acrylic color choices are narrow and this seemed the best fit. I may experiment with using a green T5 lamp instead of the white LEDs that are currently lighting the backlight. But its a nitpicky thing that may have to wait a while.


Really need to get more updated fish and coral pics but my wife glares at me when she sees me pointing the camera at the tank and not the baby these days :rollface:

This is the only picture I have that kinda shows how bulky the bracing is for this tank:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/closed_loop.jpg

The top bracing is two layers of 1/2" glass overlapped. If you notice the center braces are also overlapped but only in small strips, leaving an area on the bottom of the brace that collects salt creep and splashes like no tomorrow and is near impossible to get good light peneration through.

Here's another gem

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/flowness.jpg

I believe I only got the notice for the last post before the split, I usually just click the 'subscribe' button on the new split to make sure.......


On that note.... Great Recap!!!

It's been awesome to see this tank progress!

I turned off the return pump and all other flow in the tank for a few minutes to try and take some top-down shots. I got one decent picture and then of course it was the end of the MH photoperiod for the day :)

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20...8/redmille.jpg

The Pink mille has started getting some nice color back since upgrading reflectors, but its more noticeable from the top view of course.

More of a 45 degree shot, through the front canopy hinge. If I open the whole canopy the MH lights won't even point at the tank anymore so I can't really take true top down shots with this setup.

The strange white dots in the bottom region are actually specular reflections from the hammered aluminum of the Lumenmax Elite reflectors. This is why the lighting is fairly diffused with these reflectors, but diffused well along a relatively narrow beam compared to the poorly diffused wide spread of the lumenarcs.

This review from Advanced Aquarist featuring both Lumenmax Elite and Lumenarc III demonstrate this point very well

PAR measurements show its getting about 900 PAR with the new reflectors and hamilton 14k bulbs. No eggcrate or screen layers have been shading this coral for the last few days and its responding well so far.

These are with only the T5s and VHO Actinics on:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20.../rightside.jpg

that birdnest frag needs to find a new home as its blocking the acan too much. the acan has grown about 15% in size since its been added, and the skeleton is thoroughly fused to the rock shelf its on.

The green montipora has really colored back up in the last few days. The red montipora is taking longer but I see minor improvement.

The ORA plum crazy is unfortunately not getting as much benefit from the new reflectors as I had hoped. The beams of the lumenmax are too focused and that coral is right underneath one of the braces, which blocks much of the T5 and actinic light.

I might move it, but I might also try LEDs focused on that region.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/20.../bluemille.jpg

Blue mille coloring up a bit more and showing some personality in growth form.

Now that my eyes are bleeding.... GREAT looking tank.

I think I'm going to do a modified versoin of your multi tank system - but on a smaller scale - for my 50 gallon tank. I have a question though, I get that the water drains from your display tank into the sump but then, in all my neewbie-ish-nish get lost. It goes from the sump, through the pump up to the fuge, down (I'm assuming gravity fed) to the next tank and so on and so forth then back into the sump? Or does it go the the DT from there?

I'm not going to go with a CL due to the way the tank was built, is it still possible for me to do a system like yours w/o closed loop?

Sorry for rambling...

Beautiful little girl by the way.

thanks alot.

The barracuda pump does feed all the tanks (display, refugium, mixing, frag etc), but each of these tanks have a SEPARATE drain line back to the sump, there is no system where one tank drains into another. the sump is basically a common sump and all other tanks might as well be called 'parallel display tanks' rather than in a series or anything...

this old pic shows the 3 fishroom tanks draining right above the pump for the BK250 skimmer.

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/92...Skim_4days.jpg


This is a really old pic, back when I was using the ETSS skimmer fed by the iwaki55 (since sold on the forums here) shows how the flow from the Barracuda T's off to feed the frag tank and refugium (where the wooden shim is :lol: )

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/2009/split/pumps.jpg

The vertical rise from the T does another T to feed the frag tank, and continues on up to feed the fuge:

http://www.worstkind.com/aquarium/fishroom_02.jpg

again thats an old pic... I have since moved the spray bar in the fuge to the other side of the tank.


And yes... I could easily do without the closed loop. It simply makes it slightly easier to get some flow near the bottom of the tank, but it could be accomplished with powerheads or tweaking the return flow etc.


I want to make an updated plumbing diagram that will make it all obvious but haven't found the time, probably won't have time tonight.

perfect! That's exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks

Everything came out sweet. Ryan do you have doors for your equipment in your garage? It looks like you can close your equipment in the garage. i want to resolve my humidity issue in the garage before summer. Wondering if you close it how is the temp, because I don't have a chiller

Putting doors on the equipment was part of the original plan. We occasionally park cars in there so I had planned to build some sliding doors, but after lots of work in there I realized sliding doors would be too access-limiting, I wouldn't be able to reach my arms into both sides around the center beam to reach wires, change the RO filters etc.....


instead I got a dehumidifier from HD and it runs in the garage 24/7 now. I empty the bucket every day right now and it gets a couple gallons per day. Soon I will be suspending this from the ceiling above my laundry sink and it will drain right into the sink :)

I also recently looked in my garage walls and found they were completely un-insulated (despite some contractors telling my that by NC code attached garages must be insulted). I recently paid somebody to blow insulation into the garage walls.... this is why there are white holes above the fishroom in the 1st fishroom pic in this thread, styrofoam plugs. I need to go patch all those holes soon, but drywall work is one of my least favorite projects.

between these two changes, the garage is MUCH more comfy on cold days and the humidity is staying below 40%, a big improvement from the numbers in the 60's I was seeing before.

Ryan
Great pictures, they do a great job showing an overview of your system. And awesome write-up summarizing your build, it takes me back over the past year or so watching your fantastic build. I learned a few things at your expense - thanks

And congrats on the split

I have no idea what you're talking about pete.... all my good ideas are stolen from your thread!

:D

thanks for the info..

Tank looks awesome, your fishroom is sick.

Just let it grow and TOTM will come, :)

thanks Nick... you're right I should just let it grow out but I am still addicted to adding frags :)

In fact this Saturday I will be getting a couple frags from a fellow RC member KEEPERZ.



an LFS near me recently came under new ownership and the new owner is importing all kinds of new corals... this doesn't help me any!!! :lol: it will be a while before my tank can get the kind of frag-density you've got going on, your tank is going to look sweet once all those frags have filled in the space.

Ohhh keeperz tank is real nice, his corals have great colors, luckily I am out of space until I get new lights.