Thread: Bubble Tower
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Unread 02/24/2007, 01:35 AM   #22
hahnmeister
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brew City, WI
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Quote:
Originally posted by douggiestyle
as far as acting the same as a wet dry filter only more poorly, i believe you are incorrect. it has been shown that bacteria that process nitrates actually live symbioticly with the other bacteria in the nitrate cycle.
yes, with live rock they live in concert with each other. In wet-dry filters, fluidized sand beds, sponge filters, sand filters, etc... they dont, and the buildup of nitrates happens no matter what because all of the surfaces cant support the low-O2 bacteria to convert nitrate. Bio-balls, no matter if they are fully submerged or in a wet-dry, have the exact same bacteria and chemical process going on... the relative higher amount of oxygen in air just makes the wet-dry that much more efficient. Im not incorrect, and in a way, what you are saying is supporting what I am saying. Bio-balls behave the same in either setup... its just in a wet-dry they are able to generate/process that much more nitrate. The decline in use of wet-drys (nitrate buildup) is the exact same reason as why fluidized beds, sand filters, undergravel filters, sponge filters, etc... have all seen a decline and are not advised for use in a reef aquarium. Heck, even bio-balls are not a good idea in a reef for this very same reason. Its why CPR Bak Pak 1's were replaced with the reef-ready versions... the bio-bale became a no-no even when submerged.

What you are saying is correct about the bacteria, I just think you are applying the information wrong with respect to this media. The bacterial process you speak of only happens in rock and sand... or maybe a low-flow nitrate reactor.

Bio-balls = produce nitrates no matter what. I just dont get how you are saying im wrong because what you follow up for reasoning is supporting what I am saying. Im confused... I think you should step back just for a moment and take another look at how you are applying the information here. Im sure its just a matter of moments before the light goes off above your head and you see what Im saying.


i am unable to find the article at this time, it was in advanced aquarist and the site for old artcles is giving me an error. anyways in a submerged enviroment the nitrosomas live above the nitrobactors and directly beneath them are the anerobic bateria. all living symbioticly. the nitrobacters are right up againest nirosomas because this is where their food is and on it continues. the anerobic bacteria are directly beneath the other guys because the other guys have created a perfect enviroment for them; low O2 and high nitrate. in this article they showed how the largest concentration of anerobic bacteria is directly beneath the other bacteria. using wet/dry bacterial filtration inundates to much O2. this is great for the nitrosomas and nitrobacters but terrible for the anerobic so it breaks the symbiotic bond between the three basic bacteria. this is the reason for the decline in the use of wet/dry filters. without the sybiotic bond you have nitrate disolved in the tank. the only way to get rid of it is with water changes, anerobic bacteria or algae/plants. anerobic bateria cannot live on the surface of things because the O2 will kill them and now because the nitrogen has been already converted into nitrate there is no bacteria to move the nitrogen into an anerobic area. so basicly it does not matter what type of surface, its the ammount of surface and where its at, and will it collect detritus and clog. im not trying to tell anyone how to run there tank. in fact i use a wet/dry filter (though plan to experiment without it). even using a wet/dry i am having none of the problems that people claim they will create. so much for the wet/dry bad theory. but i am always tinkering and plan to try without and see what happens. will also need a bubble trap as wet/dry is an excellent bubble trap.

as far as bubble stopping, i assume you are 100% correct and will keep that in mind but i am sure i will try many things. i have about 2g of bio balls laying around as well as plenty of live rock rubble. will also try nothing and plan to try using a foam filter.



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