Mysterious fish deaths are more common now (Flukes)

[billsreef]

Personally, I'd do a quick FW dip to remove the bulk of them and continue the prazi to take care of any residual flukes that the dip doesn't get or remain in the tank. This will allow the tang to begin healing the quickest.

[cthetoy]

Originally Posted by billsreef

Personally, I'd do a quick FW dip to remove the bulk of them and continue the prazi to take care of any residual flukes that the dip doesn't get or remain in the tank. This will allow the tang to begin healing the quickest.

I agree with Billsreef. My Goldflake Angel had flukes on its eyes and a FW dip removed it (actually I saw it Fall off) after 5 minutes. Continue with Prazipro and make sure you shake the bottle well as stated since the contents settle fast. Watch your pH and ammonia

[JGHA]

Hi everyone, great post. My small brother gave me a flame angel as a present about 2 weeks ago, He has been eating everything I feed cyclops mysis brine shrimp. About 3 days ago I noticed he had a cloudy eye, now it is bigger and I think I cansee the flukes inside of it. My purple firefish once had the same symptoms after I moved him to my new 250 gal upgrade, he survived with no treatment, so I thought the flame angel would had no problems but I see this problem is much worse than what thought, What should I do he is in a 250 gal mixed feer dominated by SPS and LPS a few softies some zoanthids and clams. It will be really hard to capture him and it will definetly be of much stress for the fish. Any possible treatment for a reef. He is still eating vigorously. Thanks.

[steelersfan]

If the fish has flukes, Prazipro is reef safe (besides featherdusters).

[jlinzmaier]

I've come across some sort of flatworm that I've trying to eradicate from my system. After posting several magnified pics on several forums here on RC I'm unable to get a definate ID. The aren't AEFW's - for sure, however I think they may be causing some coral irritation and limiting PE. I dosed a double strength shot of FWE last week and just this evening I found more FW's after a revive dip on a few corals.

I had ordered some Prazipro just in case the FWE was unsuccessful. Tonight I decided to dose the prazipro. I have a 180 gallon mixed reef and I'm estimating the total volume to be around 200 gallons (net). I dosed 60 ml's of prazipro - a bit stronger than the bottle recommendations (extra 10ml's).

The initial reaction was a bit interesting to say the least:

1) All the anemones tentacles shriveled up immediately (on all 6 of my large anemones). The anemones bodies stayed puffed up and after a few minutes they expanded their polyps again.
2) My bubble corals retracted their bubbles and immediately extended their feeder tentacles far longer than usual.
3) My torch and frogspawn shriveled their tentacles a bit.
4) My pencil urchin immediately came out of hiding and became very active?????
5) My three chromis acted really weird. They normally hang out in the center of the tank. Immediately after the dose of prazipro all three of them went over to my frag rack and were snuggling in among the corals and seemed to exhibit some spawning behavior, but I saw nothing released. Two of the chromis yawned frequenly for a few minutes but showed no signs of stress other than their odd behavior.
6) None of the other fish changed behavior at all.
7) Several of my SPS extended what I describe as digestive polyps (not sure of the proper termination). They extended the digestive polyps that you see when an SPS will encroach on another and attempt to kill off the invading neighbor.
8) Some SPS retracted their polyps entirely.
9) Some corals had no reaction at all.
10) My zoanthids shriveled a bit.
11) I have two chunks of red duster clusters. In fear of bringing the FW's back into the tank (If I QT'd the dusters during treament) I decided not to remove them. The clusters are attached to corals and large peices of rock so I just decided they may be a casualty in my battle against the FW's. They immediately shriveled after the dose.

I'll post further reactions in the morning.

Quick question:

How long after dosing Prazipro should I resume the use of my skimmer and carbon??

Thanks.

Jeremy

[jjk_reef00]

The carbon removes the medication, so 7 days if that is how long you want to treat it.
The prazipro will make your skimmer bubble much more than normal so people say turn it off so it doesn't overflow.
I'm leaving my skimmer off until after I run carbon.

That is good info you posted above. Some of my fish are sluggish after dosing as well. I just thought it was the flukes that caused them to slow but maybe the prazipro does it to certain fish. Those same fish are not eating as much but are still eating well enough to stay healthy.

[jlinzmaier]

This morning everthing seems just fine, including the duster clusters. PH is a hair low but that is normal for when my skimmer is off (my indoor co2 drives my pH down and my skimmer air intake is set up to pull in outside air).

I'm really surprised to hear that carbon and skimmer need to be off for the full treatment. It sounds like a normal treatment is 7 days immediately followed by another dose with a 7 day treatment. That's 14 days straight without the skimmer. I run a turf scrubber and grow macroalgae so I have other means of oxygenation for my tank but I would think if other people are turning their skimmer off for 14 days straight and don't have other means of providing o2 to the tank it could likely be disastrous. Just a thought for others who might be thinking of dosing prazipro. I'd be interested to hear from others that have dosed it (into a DT) with info on how long they treated and how long they kept the skimmer off and kept the carbon out.

Thanks.

Jeremy

[MazdaSPD3]

I doubled up my dose after day 3 (says on the bottle that you can retreat no more than every 3-5 days, I believe) and everything has been fine, except for a massive amount of pod chitin floating at the top of my tank. I noticed that during treatment the amount of these chitin and surface skum has increased drastically. So now it's day 10 and I'm going to do to large WC. The treatment has been tough on a couple of corals but they are holding on. I think thelack of a skimmer for 10 days has stressed some inhabitants and hopefully they will make a full recovery after it comes back on.

[jlinzmaier]

Originally Posted by MazdaSPD3

I doubled up my dose after day 3 (says on the bottle that you can retreat no more than every 3-5 days, I believe) and everything has been fine, except for a massive amount of pod chitin floating at the top of my tank.

Yeah your right it does say that, but it sounded like the majority of people were treating 7 days apart. I think I'll treat as you did with the second dose on day 3 or 4 so I can limit the amount of time my skimmer is offline.

Thanks for the reply.

Jeremy

[MazdaSPD3]

I dunno why there was more than usual pod chitin because I have a ton of pods that are still alive and my 2 cleaner shrimps are perfectly fine as well. Maybe the Prazipro induced molting within the pods, but everything is fine.


Good luck on your treatment!

[jlinzmaier]

Two days after dosing and every thing is looking well. Even the duster clusters are opening and look fine. None of the inverts or fish seem ill or irritated in any way. Fish are all eating fine. I am getting some increased film algae on the glass likely due to the skimmer and carbon being off line. So far the fish and CUC are able to keep up with keeping the rock entirely clean.

I plan to dose a second dose tomorrow and I'll post the reaction.

Jeremy

[jlinzmaier]

OK, it's day three and I just dosed the second dose of prazipro.

Now, it was a good thing that after the first dose, the prazipro didn't wipe out my duster clusters but that made me a bit worried about how effective the dose was at eradicating my FW's. Hopefully the FW's are more susceptible to the prazipro than my duster clusters. Just in case, I increased the second dose a bit. I'm estimating 200 gallons net and my first dose was 90 ml (10 ml's higher than the bottles dosing recommendation). This time I hit the tank with a total of 105 ml's (25 ml's extra which is almost an additional 33% of the recommended dose.

The tank inhabitants had a far less dramatic response this time. Only a few SPS slightly retracted their polyps and that's about it. No polyp retraction from the anemones like the first dose, and no crazy activity from my chromis. The zoa's did close a bit but nothing real dramatic.

I'll give it another three days and dip some of my corals to see if there are any remaining FW's.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the thread about the FW's I'm battling but don't have an exact species ID for(several pics through the microscope).

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...7#post15936237

Jeremy

[MazdaSPD3]

So you dosed 90ml for the first dose and 105ml for the second dose within your ~200g system?

If so...I think i grossly underdosed because I noticed a few new semi-transparent spots on my tang's eyes again. Great...another 19 bucks down the drain tomorrow...

[jlinzmaier]

Originally Posted by MazdaSPD3

So you dosed 90ml for the first dose and 105ml for the second dose within your ~200g system?

If so...I think i grossly underdosed because I noticed a few new semi-transparent spots on my tang's eyes again. Great...another 19 bucks down the drain tomorrow...

Yeah, when it comes to medicating I tend to dose a bit higher than recommended. I know it's really not good practice but I have yet to have any significant problems after dosing higher amounts than recommended. This certainly doesn't work well for dosing other supplements but with certain treatments it's worked out well for me. The prazipro seems to have been OK dosed at higher amounts as well.

Jeremy

[jjk_reef00]

I also dosed higher than recommended with no ill effects.

[MazdaSPD3]

Looks like a trip to the LFS tomorrow for another bottle of Prazi.

[jlinzmaier]

Frustrating night. I was really hopeful the my two (high) doses of prazipro would have eradicated my FW's. I dipped two corals in some revive tonight and found a few FW's. Yeah, that's disappointing!!!!!

Time to roll the dice. Either the FW's are going to win or I will. So far the prazipro has had no negative effect on my tank at all. It's caused some odd reactions from the fish and corals immediately after dosing, but things quickly get back to normal. I did a 30 gallon water change and hit the tank with a prazipro bomb!!! I dosed 150ml of prazipro in a 180 gallon tank with a generous estimation of 200 gallons net. The bottles recommended dose is 50 ml's. I did a 3X dose. Like I said, either I'm going to win or the FW's will!!!

There was very minimal reaction from the tank inhabitants. There was an exaggerated feeder tentacle extension by my bubble corals and my zoa's retracted a bit (just as before). The duster clusters retracted immediately, but I expected that. Everything else looks great. If my tank doesn't crash I guess this will be some hard core proof that prazipro is reef safe. Well, I guess I already have done that since my first dose was 90 ml's and my second dose three days later was 105 ml's. This third dose is two days after the second dose and a much higher dose than recommended.

I'm guessing my fish won't have flukes after this!!!

I'll keep everyone posted.

Jeremy

[cthetoy]

Originally Posted by jlinzmaier

I'm guessing my fish won't have flukes after this!!!

I'll keep everyone posted.

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy for your observations in using Prazipro at 2x and 3x its dosage. Can you tell us what fish you have?

[jlinzmaier]

Originally Posted by cthetoy

Thanks Jeremy for your observations in using Prazipro at 2x and 3x its dosage. Can you tell us what fish you have?

Sure NP!! I'm doing the treatment and it only makes sense for me to share the results so we can all learn from either my success or failure.

I should first clarify that I never suspected my fish had flukes nor is this treament for flukes in any way. This treament is solely an attempt at eradication of some unknown species of flatworm which prazipro indicates on the bottle that it can treat/kill/eliminate (the flatworms I have are definately not AWFW's or planaria).

I have a 180 gallon mixed reef tank with multiple species of corals of varying levels of sensitivity and hardiness. I have several acros, multiple various other SPS species, multiple acans, several other LPS, softies, zoanthids, anemones, clams, various shrimp, multiple starfish various crabs, etc...

The fish I have include:

one medium sized blue hippo tang
one medium sized yellow eye kole
one six line wrasse
one purple firefish
three blue/green chromis
one three stripe damsel
one maroon clown

Jeremy

[ATB USA]

Great info my tank was wiped out a yr ago from flukes

[asonitez]

I lost my Flame Angel and My Baby Naso Tang to what I belived to be Flukes. Both were Super Healthy and they succumed to flukes. I'm ****ed because I was very attached to those fish. I'm going to dose Prazipro as soon as I can locate some at my fish shop.

[ATB USA]

Do you put the prazi pro in the food or the water. I did the water and couldn't use my skimmer for three months.

[jlinzmaier]

Originally Posted by ATB USA

Do you put the prazi pro in the food or the water. I did the water and couldn't use my skimmer for three months.

I dose it into the water in a high flow area per instructions. I would think putting it into the food would expose the fish to far too concentrated amounts of the med and would likely kill them.


What do you mean you couldn't use your skimmer for months?? Becuase of the excess foaming?? If that were the case then it may be pertinent to use more carbon to remove/neutralize the medication.

Jeremy

[ATB USA]

way to much foam skimmer kept on overflowing

[jlinzmaier]

Decided today that if the FW's haven't been eradicated by the dosing I've done then Prazipro simply won't eradicate them. I put my carbon back in my sump and turned the skimmer on. Tank seems to have no negative affects related to the prazipro dosing. Skimmer is foaming more than usual but I have a reeflo orca 250 and have a lot of capability to turn down the air intake and water level. In all the skimmer doesn't seem to be foaming crazily but I do have it turned down low just in case something crazy happens in the middle of the night.

Tomorrow I'll dip some more corals and see if I find anymore FW's.

Jeremy