Mountains of sawdust (360g plywood, LED, Arduino build)

[lordofthereef]

LOL I was referring specifically to this statement:

"I wanted the tank to look clean and permanent - so throwing a big glass box on a stand was out of the question. But, I wanted to take this look to the highest extreme: I don't even want it to look like a fish tank, I want it to look like a piece of glass floating in the wall, with the ocean behind. So, the stand, hood, etc. will all be flush with the surrounding surfaces in the home, with as small an impact as possible."

That has the potential to be unlike anything I have seen before in a home!

[coralnut99]

Have you thought out the heat and ventilation issues yet?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by lordofthereef

That has the potential to be unlike anything I have seen before in a home!

Ah, gotcha. We'll see how that goes. I've got some thoughts that I'm running by my home-remodeler family member to see if he thinks they're sound. The ply tank and stud-built stand and hood will be easy to "hide" but the one sticking point is doors for access. How do you make them easy to use, yet not give the impression that you just walled in a bunch of cabinets around a glass box?

Originally Posted by coralnut99

Have you thought out the heat and ventilation issues yet?

Yeah, though again it's not a problem I've totally solved yet. Ventilation for moist air due to evaporation will be required, but I don't think I want to give up the heat generated. The tank will be in a room that's kept at 68 year-round, and will have very little "accidental" heat - the LEDs will give off far less than any other type of lighting, I'll be using an energy efficient return pump, and very low-watt powerheads for circulation. That's about it. So I'm sure I'll be heat-negative most of the time. I can back this up with experience from other tanks I've had. I've had wildly inefficient tanks with 400w MHs that didn't need chillers, for instance. In fact, I used to have a 125g tank in this same spot, and my energy budget goal for this 360g tank is to hit the same daily power usage I had with that tank.

So rather than running heaters to make up for it, I'd like to use as much of the waste heat from the lights, etc. as is practical. Thoughts or suggestions appreciated. I'll have a DIY controller (Arduino based) so it would be reasonable to switch on different equipment based on different conditions. For instance, if the temperature in the hood is above a certain max value, turn on an exhaust fan, but leave it off if the tank water needs heat. Or, get makeup air to replace what's exhausted from the cool basement if the tank is too hot, but from the warmer living space in the house if it's too cold. Of course I'll have heaters in the tank too, but I'm wondering if tricks like these would help keep them off.

[AcroSteve]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

One thing I'm starting to worry about with those smaller viewing panels is if the plywood will flex around them too much. In a traditional fullsize viewing panel, the "frame" the glass is in is reinforced all the way around by the bottom, sides, and eurobracing. In my design, the long bottom edges of those panels will be "in the middle" of those two sides of the tank, so there will be no immediate support. Thoughts about this from anyone experienced in wood tanks would be appreciated.

I can understand your concern. At a minimum, I would double the plywood on the sides that you will have the viewing panels in.

Double them and cut the viewing hole in the outer piece and then cut the hole in the inner piece of plywood larger to so that you have at least an inch of surface area for the silicone.

Sort of like this on my tank - but I routed this out of a single sheet. Yours would be a total of almost 1-1/2" thick. You could tune some dimensions and get your glass flush with the inner surface of your tank.



The the glass on the inside of my overflow is within 1/16" of being flush. If you use some masking tape when you silicone the glass in, you can get a very neat job.

Here is how I installed mine.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I remember the basketball. Creative to say the least. you vacuum bagged fiberglass over that area, correct? I sold my vacuum bagging rig years ago unfortunately. Still up in the air on the smaller viewing panels, so we'll see where it ends up.

On another note, the sump is assembled:



18 x 18 x 48. No bracing on the top yet. Rather than do eurobracing, I'll probably do one or two narrow cross braces, once I decide on the baffle layout.

[AcroSteve]

Yes, I did vacuum bag that area, but with the right cloth and conditions, i think you could do something similar without that.

[lordofthereef]

This is pretty exciting. I have never seen a build thread of a plywood tank. I know it isn't a new concept, but the idea of making a fishtank out of wood is pretty cool to me. More pics!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Lordofthereef, search around a bit - there are two or three others that are active right now. Steve's is amazing. And MattShack is in the middle of a 1000g tank.

Think of it like building a wood boat, only inside out.

I've got a few more pics but I'm trying to spread them out since progress is so slow. That last one of the sump is about a week old. I worked on it for about 2 hours last night, too.

[salty joe]

[QUOTE=der_wille_zur_macht;16139454]


In fact, I used to have a 125g tank in this same spot, and my energy budget goal for this 360g tank is to hit the same daily power usage I had with that tank.

QUOTE]

Have you cosidered insulating your tank and plumbing?

[RyanEG]

Dwiz, not to be a negative Nancy, but have you really thought out the woody sump? Even with my stand being extra tall (42" if memory serves me) I still look through the sides of it nine times out of ten. Especially if a fish happens to make it down the water slide. Even when I need to look at it from the top down it takes some contorsionist moves to sqeeze my admittedly large head into the opening I have. Just trying to help alleviate some frustrations in the future.

[warlock_king]

You're my hero.. Now build me one! lol Good job on the tank! cant wait to see it finished up

[der_wille_zur_macht]

[QUOTE=salty joe;16157099]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

Have you cosidered insulating your tank and plumbing?

I can't quote this for sure, but I'm guessing the plywood construction will be better insulated than glass or acrylic by default (it's thicker for one thing, and will be sheathed in some sort of finish material, too.) By rough guess based on the other tanks I've had, I have a feeling I'll be able to get close enough to heater-neutral by careful air control and equipment choice.

Originally Posted by RyanEG

Dwiz, not to be a negative Nancy, but have you really thought out the woody sump? Even with my stand being extra tall (42" if memory serves me) I still look through the sides of it nine times out of ten. Especially if a fish happens to make it down the water slide. Even when I need to look at it from the top down it takes some contorsionist moves to sqeeze my admittedly large head into the opening I have. Just trying to help alleviate some frustrations in the future.

I have thought about that, for sure. I guess I'll try to live with it at this point. I'm not going to have much in the actual sump, since most equipment (return pump, maybe skimmer, etc) will be external. Despite being gigantic, this is going to be a pretty simple tank by some accounts. Worst case, I'm doing each step first on the sump, so it's good practice. I can always use it as a frag tank or something if I hate it.

Originally Posted by warlock_king

You're my hero..

Thanks! This stuff really is easy and fun, anyone can do it.

Though, assembling the tank is probably going to require assistance - I struggle to lift some of the panels alone, as it is, and it's only gonna get tougher when they're put together and the epoxy and glass has to go in. Luckily I've got lots of local family/friends.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Cutting the viewing panel in the end of the tank:



I went with 8" tall by the "whole" width (that is, leaving just a 3" frame on the top and each end.)

I haven't cut the viewing pane in the back of the tank yet, but will probably do 8" tall and only half the length, or less. This will help contribute to the aesthetic impact I'm looking for. Referencing back to the home's floorplan:



The "front door" is down the hall between the stairs and the front bedroom. So as people enter through the front door and come down the hall towards the aquarium, they will first see the end panel and the small viewing panel on the back. The end panel pretty much reveals the full 4" dimension of the tank, but the back panel will only reveal two or three feet of that dimension. So, as visitors approach the tank from the front of the house, it will appear as if it is an average 75 or 90 gallon aquarium built in to the wall.

[username in use]

What about a small viewing window in the bathroom. With creative rock and coral placement, it could be obscured from the other panels so no one can see someone in the bathroom. Could be a great touch though. I know Ive always wanted an inwall in front of the toilet. better than a magazine.

[Skeptic_07]

can't wait to see this one done.. GL!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by username in use

What about a small viewing window in the bathroom. With creative rock and coral placement, it could be obscured from the other panels so no one can see someone in the bathroom. Could be a great touch though. I know Ive always wanted an inwall in front of the toilet. better than a magazine.

That's a fascinating concept that, shockingly, I hadn't thought of yet. It seems so obvious and has a ton of "cool" potential. The toilet is actually right there on the other side of that wall so it would be perfect.

It would be really tough to implement though. For one thing, that drawing is a little inaccurate - the wall between the bathroom and the tank is about 26" thick - it's a wet wall for the bathroom upstairs. I'm going to open it up such that the overflow and tank plumbing can be run in it, too. The plumbing for upstairs is all off to one side, and I was going to use the other side for the tank's stuff. So in order to have a window into the bathroom, I'd need to plan that plumbing and electrical very carefully.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Okay, I pitched the bathroom window idea. My wife now officially thinks I'm crazy. We'll see. I may have her convinced that it's possible to totally wall it off with live rock. It would be a really cool little nook to put some offbeat corals, and seeing a fish swim by once in a while would be neat.

It's the kid's bathroom and I know they'd love it!

[Skeptic_07]

What about the fish though? Don't they have a say in this? I wouldn't want to be forced to look at people going to the bathroom all the time. you know fish don't have eyelids right? certainly an inconvenience

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Still on the fence about the bathroom thing, but did some more work on the tank last night. Like I said in the first picture, this is going to take a long time to finish.

In some of the other build threads, people quote old rules of thumb about measuring twice and cutting only once. I guess I like to take that a step farther:

1) Measure three times
2) Mock up the cut, check for square, etc.
3) Measure again
4) Make the cut
5) Measure two more times
6) Mock up the assembly
7) Adjust as required
8) Measure again
9) Mock up the assembly again
10) etc.

To show what I'm talking about, I was working on the tank itself last night. Rather than just glue and clamp then and drill/countersink/screw as I went, I tacked it together with a few screws, then measured out, drilled, and countersunk the rest of the screw holes. With just a few screws holding it together, it was easy to check and adjust alignment and square before drilling the rest of the holes, so I know when I do the real assembly it'll be as good as I can get it. Then, once it was all tacked together, I went back over and measured/marked the biscuit locations. My next work session will involve cutting the biscuit slots, then mocking up the assembly again with the biscuits in each joint.

Clearly there are faster ways to do this, but I'm trying to be methodical and precise.

Here are some photos.

Clamping a corner together so I can put in the temporary screws:



Obviously you can't see it because it's inside the tank, but I made 90 degree corner clamping blocks to facilitate this process.

I did all of these steps with the tank upside-down so I could check alignment on the bottom, and measure/mark/drill it:



Finally, the line of finished holes waiting to be countersunk:



I like these screws. They have a star bit which means you have to actually line up and insert the driver rather than just shoving it at the screw head, but the result is that I have yet to strip or damage one, and they go in without fuss.

[Flanders]

I can't wait to see this up and running, Nate. Let me know if you ever need a hand with lifting or something.

[widmer]

Love the built-in concept.

Regarding the end of the tank, couldn't you in theory make the viewing area on the end as large as you want, without having to worry about seeing through it into the next room, due to the way the light refracts off the glass at the right angles (ie try looking through the end of any tank that has water in it, and out the front or back, it's not possible).

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by widmer

Love the built-in concept.

Regarding the end of the tank, couldn't you in theory make the viewing area on the end as large as you want, without having to worry about seeing through it into the next room, due to the way the light refracts off the glass at the right angles (ie try looking through the end of any tank that has water in it, and out the front or back, it's not possible).

Sure. Several people with plywood tanks have made "full size" viewing panels on multiple sides of the tank (see Kent's 1000g tank on fingerlakesreef). I purposely want the viewing panels to be far smaller than possible on the end and back of the tank, to add to the sense of curiosity and drama.

People are probably getting sick of hearing me talk about this, but imagine two scenarios. In one, you have a standard 75g tank with the 48" x 18" front panel exposed. In the other, you have the end panel of this tank - 360g, but only a 42" x 8" viewing panel.

When you look at the 75g, you'll be able to see the entire contents of the tank at once. Sure, there might be a fish hiding in the rockwork, but chances are, you'll see him after a few seconds. No surprises, no curiosity.

When you look in the end viewing panel of this tank, you'll have to stare and crane your neck around to see new things. Then after 15 minutes, a new fish will swim into view, catching you off guard! That's the effect I'm going for on the end and back. The sense that what's in the wall is vastly larger than what you can see. Instead of a fish tank, it's a window into a larger, mysterious world.

And I'll still have the full-size front viewing panel for people who want to see it all at once (though if I plan aquascaping correctly, you won't see it all even from the front!)

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by Flanders

I can't wait to see this up and running, Nate. Let me know if you ever need a hand with lifting or something.

Thanks - I'm sure I'll need help sooner or later. Once this thing gets screwed together it's gonna be more or less impossible to move on my own. Much less when it has epoxy and glass in it!

[Ericd000]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

Another action shot today. This time to convey a sense of scale. This is my 4 year old daughter standing in front of the (cut to size!) bottom panel of the tank:



She's already asked if she can swim in the finished product.

Great build thread.

I saw this pic and just had to say Ghost in the Shell: SAC!!
W00t!

Ok,don't mind me I'm done now

[username in use]

Any progress?