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Unread 12/12/2009, 09:08 PM   #51
der_wille_zur_macht
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Nope. I said it was going to be slow, remember?

Tomorrow I'll have a few hours to work on it, hoping to get the biscuits cut on the tank, cut out the remaining two viewing panels, and hopefully glue/screw it together. That would be a pretty nice milestone.


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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/14/2009, 08:27 AM   #52
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Biscuited, glued, and screwed:




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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/14/2009, 08:32 AM   #53
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Worth pointing out that it's upside-down in that pic. This is the "end" panel that'll face down the hallway, and of course the main viewing panel that'll face the living room. The back panel cutout is partially visible through the end cutout. I made it 8" tall by 24" long, so it basically goes a third of the way down that back side. Hence from the hallway side, you'll basically be presented with a 8" tall view that's 24" by 48".

I've got a much firmer grasp on aquascaping, might try to draw something up to show the ideas. I'm terrible at drawing on a computer though so maybe on paper & then scan it. Also finalized some thoughts about the lighting and the filtration. It's amazing the amount of thinking you can get done late at night if you don't mind not sleeping.


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Inconveniencing marine life since 1992

"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/14/2009, 09:13 AM   #54
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looking great, this is an awesome build. I like your design ideas so far, very original.


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Unread 12/14/2009, 09:54 AM   #55
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that looks great, nate. one thing I was thinking about, if you do go with the sump underneath the main tank, have you thought about how you're going to do water changes?


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Unread 12/14/2009, 10:18 AM   #56
der_wille_zur_macht
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username in use View Post
I like your design ideas so far
Thanks. I've got plenty more where these came from.

In the end, as I've said many times, I'm trying to build this to meet some big-picture aesthetic goals, not just to keep some pretty corals alive.

IMHO the hobby right now is far too focused solely on growing colorful corals and parading them in front of viewers. I don't want that - I want to recreate the impact I remember from snorkeling on real reefs. The feeling that there's "stuff" out there in the distance beyond your field of vision. Besides all the points I've made several times about the small viewing panels, my aquascaping will tie in to this. There are some specific vistas I want to recreate in this tank.

I took a break from marine tanks a few years ago and spent some time focusing on planted FW tanks. The experience changed me - the planted FW hobby community seems to have a far better grasp on aquascaping and visual impact, instead of the neon fruitstand look that's so common in the reef hobby.


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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/14/2009, 10:26 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanders View Post
that looks great, nate. one thing I was thinking about, if you do go with the sump underneath the main tank, have you thought about how you're going to do water changes?
Automated from a SW storage tank in the basement. Probably a gallon or two a day, or something like that. One pump to drain a fixed volume from the display each day, and another in the storage tank in the basement to replenish the water.

I'll have a supply line from the RODI unit and a mixing pump, so the work required to do water changes will basically be dumping salt in the storage tank once every month or two.

I'll probably use peristaltic pumps to get accurate volumes, and control it from the Arduino controller I'm building. That way I can tie it in to the ATO (i.e. turn the ATO off while water changes are occurring) and any alarm/notification I end up doing (i.e. send an email if a water change fails, or some undesireable condition is detected - empty storage tank, low water level in sump, etc.).

Randy Holmes-Farley of chemistry forum fame uses a similar approach and he's got me convinced that it's effective and easy.

Now that the tank is assembled, I have to brace the top. Hoping to have that done by Christmas, so I can do epoxy while I have a few days off around the holidays. Then get the glass in and hopefully have the tank itself finished by the end of January.


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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/16/2009, 11:51 AM   #58
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No updates, but I did just stumble across a signature-worthy quote that helps sum up my approach to this tank:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Borneman
It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be a thriving community of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely a collection of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae.
From this article:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php


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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/21/2009, 07:49 AM   #59
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Updates. Last night I got the bracing cut and laminated.

I had to move the tank on to the floor to make room and couldn't resist another size-perspective shot:



Instead of cutting a hole out of a big sheet and sticking a one-piece eurobrace on the top, I cut strips and laminated them so each side will have a double-thickness brace. Here are the braces stacked up awaiting glue:



Each side has a longer piece and a shorter piece, which are alternated so there's overlap in the corners.

Hoping to get a few hours to mark and drill pilot holes then screw and glue these braces in before Christmas. I ordered epoxy (7.5 gallons - 89 lbs shipped weight!) and it's supposed to be here on Christmas eve. I have vacation starting on that day and running till the 4th of Jan, so I'm hoping I get a good shot at epoxying during that timeframe, which would put me right on schedule - original target was to have the tank finished by Feb, if I get a good enough start on epoxy next week I can let it cure for a week or two and get glass in towards the end of the month.

Oh, and I've been refining my schedule for the remaining projects on this tank and I'm suddenly feeling overwhelmed. This is, by far, my most-DIY intense effort yet. I made a list of major systems/components that I will DIY vs. buy off the shelf:

DIY:
1) The tank itself
2) Stand & hood
3) LED lighting with "special effects"
4) VFD-controlled closed loop (thanks stugray for the inspiration!)
5) A turf scrubber
6) Sump
7) Automated RO/DI storage tank
8) Automated (small, daily) water changes
9) Some form of environmental control to adjust ventilation, etc. dependent on temperature, humidity, etc.
10) Arduino-based controller for all of the above, plus heater control, pH monitoring, and some degree of alarm/notification when critical conditions exist
11) (optional, down the road) heat-recovery system on my furnace exhaust to heat the tank. My furnace is old and puts A TON of heat out the chimney.

Off the shelf:
1) The return pump
2) Heaters

I better get cracking.


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Inconveniencing marine life since 1992

"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/21/2009, 12:19 PM   #60
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This is going to be nice once its all done.


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Unread 12/21/2009, 12:25 PM   #61
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Is it alot cheaper building a tank out of wood than your conventional way of glass or acrylic??


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Unread 12/21/2009, 12:36 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WmTasker View Post
This is going to be nice once its all done.
Thanks. I hope so!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkoo29 View Post
Is it alot cheaper building a tank out of wood than your conventional way of glass or acrylic??
Yes, though it really depends on how you count costs. If you tried to get a custom maker to build this tank out of acrylic or glass (there's no such thing as a tank this size off-the-shelf), it would probably cost 4 - 5 times what this tank is costing me in materials.

If you bought glass or acrylic yourself to build the tank, it would probably cost 2 -3 times what this tank costs in materials.

Of course, those numbers are NOT including my labor. I'm guessing I'll have somewhere around 60 - 80 hours of labor in this tank. I was initially thinking 100 hours, but it's going faster than I expected. And I'm probably a slow worker - if you were familiar with these methods and very proficient in woodworking, you could probably whip this tank out in 40 hours.

And if you're trying to scale these numbers up or down to other tank sizes, I would roughly guess that below 150 - 200 gallons, the plywood tank isn't cheaper any more. Thinner and smaller glass/acrylic panels are pretty cheap, and as glass tanks get smaller, the costs per unit of tank size drop off quickly. Meanwhile, the plywood/epoxy construction this tank is made out of doesn't really get any cheaper per unit of size as you go smaller. Plywood is probably cheapest from around 200 gallons up to a few thousand gallons or so, after which point you'd probably be thinking about concrete.


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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/22/2009, 04:06 AM   #63
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I'm digging it so far. Looking forward to more!
How thick is the plywood? Sorry if you stated it earlier. Hard to tell from the pics.


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Unread 12/22/2009, 07:31 AM   #64
der_wille_zur_macht
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Quote:
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How thick is the plywood? Sorry if you stated it earlier. Hard to tell from the pics.
It's 3/4" oak hardwood ply. Not sure what the inner plies are made of, but it's got an oak veneer on it. Honestly if I was to do it again, I'd get it without the oak veneer. It's not going to add anything visually (tank will be painted on the inside and behind drywall on the outside) and any glues/sealers/etc. I apply have to penetrate the veneer to get to the wood beneath.


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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/22/2009, 12:47 PM   #65
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A question in case the other ply builders are reading this thread. How do you all feel about bulkheads in the bottoms of ply tanks?

I'll be doing the overflow through the "end" near the bathroom, and return over that side of the tank. I was originally planning on powerheads for circulation, but stugray's recent VFD thread has me hooked.

So, I need to get a closed loop on this tank. I'll need a 2" bulkhead for the inlet, and several 1.5" for returns back to the tank. I'd like to hide all of this behind or under rockwork. Thanks to the peninsula orientation, the bathroom wall is the only wall I can do plumbing through, and since rockwork will be sparse, I won't be able to hide enough bulkheads in that wall.

Which leaves me with lots (4 - 5 at least) of big bulkheads through the bottom of the tank. I'd use heavy bulkheads for sure, but I'm still nervous about drilling the bottom of the tank. Thoughts anyone?


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"It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)
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Unread 12/23/2009, 05:27 PM   #66
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I would not give it a 2nd thought. Go for it.

Just make sure you completely seal all of the plys with epoxy afterwords. I drilled mine oversized and then used a form and poured them separately.



Similar hole.



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Current Tank Info: 220g custom plywood. SPS heavy with Sequence Hammerhead return with 4-Way OM. Tunze 6100, 6200 and Wavebox. 5000btu DIY Chiller. Lighting is 10K mh 250W / VHO Actinic Skimer - H&S A200-2x1260
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Unread 12/24/2009, 06:45 AM   #67
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Nice work Steve. Gives me confidence to try myself. Though my forms probably won't be as cool as yours.


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Unread 12/24/2009, 08:04 AM   #68
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The one in the 2nd pic was done using pvc pipe. I just smeared a little silicone lubricant on it to keep the epoxy from sticking.


Piece of cake.


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don't go ninjin' nobody that don't need ninjin'!

Current Tank Info: 220g custom plywood. SPS heavy with Sequence Hammerhead return with 4-Way OM. Tunze 6100, 6200 and Wavebox. 5000btu DIY Chiller. Lighting is 10K mh 250W / VHO Actinic Skimer - H&S A200-2x1260
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Unread 12/24/2009, 08:32 AM   #69
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This is fascinating to follow!

This may sound like a stupid question, but is there going to be any interior coating of the plywood other than veneer? Perhaps fiberglass, or something like that? Will the integrity of the tank come mainly from the methods used to join the plywood at the edges?


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Unread 12/24/2009, 12:28 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcroSteve View Post
The one in the 2nd pic was done using pvc pipe. I just smeared a little silicone lubricant on it to keep the epoxy from sticking.
That's what I was thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishtofish View Post
This is fascinating to follow!

This may sound like a stupid question, but is there going to be any interior coating of the plywood other than veneer? Perhaps fiberglass, or something like that? Will the integrity of the tank come mainly from the methods used to join the plywood at the edges?
Once the wood structure is finished, I'll coat the inside with epoxy. We're not talking a simple brushed-on application here, but rather a cast (poured) 1/8" - 3/16" thick layer of epoxy. This should be sufficient to provide waterproofing AND act as a durable finish inside the tank. The wood structure is essentially a substrate for this epoxy coat.

I have some composites experience in other areas (boats and airplanes) where you'd typically use fiberglass or other material to build up the composite, but in this case the wood box is stiff enough. Pouring a big thick layer of epoxy is kind of a brute force method vs. doing a nice delicate layup of cloth, but it's definitely proven to work, so I'm not worried. Several other folks in my immediate geographical area have built tanks like this from 400 - 1,000g in size and it's turned out fine.


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Unread 12/25/2009, 03:00 AM   #71
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i dont know if you have already said it or not(sorry if you have) will you be using glass or acrylic and how thick?


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Unread 12/25/2009, 03:24 AM   #72
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16 days and no updates? Don't leave us hanging


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Unread 12/25/2009, 04:35 AM   #73
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So far it looks awesome but I have 2 questions. 1st - Wouldn't it be wise to layup some cloth in the corners only 1st then epoxy the entire inside of the tank? 2nd - Since this tank is going on the 1st fl and you have a basement has the strength of the floor been taken into consideration since you will plopping down a few thousand pounds it?


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Unread 12/25/2009, 06:08 PM   #74
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Good luck! Watching for more picks!


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Unread 12/25/2009, 09:32 PM   #75
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hi, interesting work, keep posting..


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