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Old 05/07/2012, 01:41 PM   #1
mos90
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ph is getting up to 8.55 during the day.

i currently am dosing saturated limewater in a ato in my 125g. i leave the ato system on 24/7 and run the refugium lights only at night.

ive noticed my ph is climbing into the mid 8.5's during the day and dropping to 8.3's at night. i just recalibrated my ph probe just to make sure.

should i use some vinigar in the limewater to lower ph? if so how much?

should i leave it alone?


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Old 05/07/2012, 01:47 PM   #2
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forgot to mention. alk is about 8dkh. cal at 430. mag at 1300.

a few of my lps's dont seem to like the higher ph much.


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Old 05/07/2012, 04:49 PM   #3
Randy Holmes-Farley
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IMO, it is OK at pH 8.55, but if you want to lower it, aeration is the best bet. Dosing the limewater only at night may be a good choice as well.

Dosing vinegar may be a fine choice, but you need to realize there are other effects (like bacterial growth and lower O2).

This has more:


High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm


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Old 05/07/2012, 08:00 PM   #4
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Ive noticed when I dose limewater only at night I see a large ph spike when the ato turns on on. Is that ok? I could run fuge lights a little less time.

I already have an airstone running. Maybe it's to small of a pump.


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Old 05/07/2012, 10:13 PM   #5
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If you're dosing limewater only at night, does the tank get ATO during the day at all? I assume not. If so, I might leave the limewater on all the time and look more at adding aeration.


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Old 05/08/2012, 04:55 AM   #6
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mos90 View Post
Ive noticed when I dose limewater only at night I see a large ph spike when the ato turns on on. Is that ok? I could run fuge lights a little less time.

I already have an airstone running. Maybe it's to small of a pump.
How high does it get?


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Old 05/08/2012, 08:55 AM   #7
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if i leave the ato off for the daytime cycle then kick it back on after lights out it will get get a short spike to 8.6 -8.7 then settle back down after an hour or so.


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Old 05/08/2012, 09:12 AM   #8
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A controller (apex, rk, etc) that runs your ATO and has a pH probe can be a big help with the situation of elevated pH due to kalkwasser introduction. My ATO will turn off for 20 minutes if the pH gets too high.


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Old 05/08/2012, 09:26 AM   #9
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i have my apex set that way. to shut off at 8.6.

maybe im just to worried about it being at a specific #.

here is a problem that i run into. i have a tunze ato system. when the apex shuts it of for 20 minutes at 8.6 then it kicks back on, the system runs for 10 seconds, why they would want it to do that i dont know, and spikes the ph again. i might have to get rid of it and go with a storm ato system with a slower pump and kalk stirrer.



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Old 05/08/2012, 09:31 AM   #10
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How does the tank look? I would go with if it looks good then don't touch it.


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Old 05/08/2012, 09:35 AM   #11
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the only coral that doesnt look to happy is my open brain. but that could be something else. i need to do a 20% w.c.

the tank is fallow now due to an ich outbreak(my fault).


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Old 05/08/2012, 09:37 AM   #12
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I have the same setup, saturated kalk in Tunze ATO controlled with an apex. I couldn't find a solution to the huge spikes and also keep up with evaporation/calcium/alk needs, so I diluted my kalk substantially and went with two part with dosers. Now I just keep my osmolator on 24/7. Problem solved for me. You could sell the osmolator if you want but its a great ATO, IMO.

I'd say leave your ATO on 24/7 and just add vinegar, just read through some of randy's articles .


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Old 05/08/2012, 10:12 AM   #13
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im thinking adding vinegar and see how it works. what bacterial growth? bad? good?

45ml per gallon of limewater to start?

both of my limewater addition tanks have slighly elevated ph.


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Old 05/08/2012, 11:37 AM   #14
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OK, I wouldn't run it only at night if the pH really gets to 8.6 or 8.7.

Read about vinegar dosing before starting it. It can be good, but it is not a clear "do it" situation. There are lots of threads in this forum.


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Old 05/08/2012, 11:44 AM   #15
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randy. i have the ability to do 2part with a doser also. i just think kalk is easier. i thing ive noticed so far is i have not had to use any gfo since ive started kalk. phosphates seem to stay in check(under .03) . i hate to give that up.

the next tank i do is going to be a 300g aggresive fish only with a fake coral reef insert. LOL


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Old 05/08/2012, 12:17 PM   #16
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Then I'd just be happy with it dosed 24/7, and consider more aeration.


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Old 05/08/2012, 12:20 PM   #17
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another thought.. what about dosing low amounts of vinegar with a separate dosing pump. i could start with 10 ml per day spread out the over 5 doses. i could set the apex to shut off the dosing pump if the ph drops below 8.1 . the vinegar would also help reduce nitrates.


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Old 05/08/2012, 12:24 PM   #18
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btw. i did add a much larger airpump last night.

the ph is 8.39 right now.


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Old 05/08/2012, 12:53 PM   #19
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10 seconds of kalk raise your pH that much? Possibly restrict your ATO pump, so it pumps it in slower? relocate your ATO inlet in a higher flow area of the sump, or add a power head to mix it better. An aqualifter is ideal for Kalk in that it pumps slower, and is cheaper too. And they can pump fully saturated Kalk for a year+ without ever needing cleaned.

Use your controller as your ATO. Hook your float switches to the switch ports, plug a aqualifter into the one of the controlled 120v outlets. Then there is no need for an outside ATO if you have a controller with switch ports, more precise control this way too. My ATO won't come on at all if the pH is to high.


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Old 05/08/2012, 01:04 PM   #20
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i thought of that. i do have an i/o box hanging around. might be easier.

could u tell me what commands u used for your ato on the apex?


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Old 05/08/2012, 02:56 PM   #21
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Is it possible that your Alk test kit is off? I've never heard of pH getting that high with Alk that low. Then again, I'm fairly new to this.

As for the vinegar, 45ml per gallon of ATO water is too high for starters according to what I've read. Based on your 125 gallon tank size, you'll probably end up somewhere around 30-40ml per day, so divide that by the number of gallons of ATO water you're adding per day. You'll start off around 2-4ml per day.


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Old 05/08/2012, 04:21 PM   #22
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mos90 View Post
another thought.. what about dosing low amounts of vinegar with a separate dosing pump. i could start with 10 ml per day spread out the over 5 doses. i could set the apex to shut off the dosing pump if the ph drops below 8.1 . the vinegar would also help reduce nitrates.
If you want the other effects of vinegar, that is a fine plan. I dose vinegar to my system.

But bear in mind that it drives bacterial growth, reduces nutrients, and potentially lowers O2.


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Old 05/09/2012, 09:07 AM   #23
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i checked my phos and nitrate last night. nitrate was at 8ppm and phos was 0ppb on 2 separate tests on my hanna736. id like to lower nitrate some but raise phos. how would i go about that?


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Old 05/09/2012, 09:21 AM   #24
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If you have an apex you can use the solution I run.

I use two expansion power modules from my Genesis Reef Systems Storm Unit.

The apex will allow the RODI to be top off supply if PH is greater then 8.4
If less then 8.4 it uses the Kalk stirrer as top off.

Both are fed from separate pumps.

PH stays constant around 8.3-8.4


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Old 05/09/2012, 09:43 AM   #25
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i dont see the power modules on the genesis site. what are they? how is the apex able to tell the storm what pump to use?


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