Algae Scrubber Basics

[karimwassef]

This claims 1200W with 120 x 10W LEDs

[br88dy]

Sorry if I'm throwing a cog in the "Settling Tank" wheel discussion, but I wanted to share how successful my nano ATS has become.

-Overflow ATS, 1.5"X4", lit on one side
-160 GPH Pump
-(4) 660nm LED's, 4" from the screen, on 24/7
-Less than a cube of food a day.

I've scrubbed the screen once and this is 3 days after the first scrub.

You could say the screen has matured!

I'll adjust the lighting period when the growth becomes really light colored, but for now it's still on the darker side. It is a lot greener than in the picture, but still not a nice bright green. Will keep everyone updated if anyone cares.

[SantaMonica]

Horizontal river styles tend to grow darker, because the air/water interface is not as turbulent. But it looks good and should work well.

[br88dy]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

Horizontal river styles tend to grow darker, because the air/water interface is not as turbulent. But it looks good and should work well.

This isn't a horizontal scrubber. Water flows over my AIO overflow and my screen is hanging on the wall below the teeth. Water runs down the screen.

[DamonG]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

This claims 1200W with 120 x 10W LEDs

Hmmnnn.. That's quite a bit dude.. How large is your area? I forgot.. I'm asking because my 300 is pretty strong on my scrubber.. I have the 600 on my tub, but only using the blue and red channels because with the white on, it was too much. .

I would suggest one if you want on that wattage, get one with channel on/off control.. Simply because it doesn't seem like it, but those grow led units can fry some algea. . I didn't think it was a big deal until I got the 600 unit.. But then, my 600 has optics on it.. 1200 might be a bit much with all of the colors on.. Even up high.. But worth the experiment.. Lol..

Originally Posted by karimwassef

Anyone looked at this light for an ATS

https://www.amazon.com/Double-Spectu.../dp/B01JLKUA2W

From note 5

[karimwassef]

I'm running my DIY 600W on a 3' x 5' "tub" and I'm fine with it. I'm curious about this much light and any benefits to the colors.

My 600W is very distributed though (~ 2' x 4' lightsheet). This 1200W is very dense... not sure it would work well.

My previous ATS screen was running 300W screens x 2 (one on each side). The ATS was ~ 3' x 4'.

[MiddletoM]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

An example VERTICAL upflow or waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real florescent watts (not equivalent watts) of light, or half that for LEDs, for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts (6 watts LED) are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If the watts are divided on each side of the screen, it is a 2-sided screen. This should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

I'll be honest, this thread makes me feel like this...

Im really struggling to get my head round it all, it kind of seems overly complicated (I know its all well calculated).

For a waterfall ATS...

Can someone confirm for 2 frozen cubes per day I will need a 1 sided screen of 48 square inches with 24 watts of LEDs all on the same side?

Then if I lit the same screen from both sides 12 watts each side it would take 4 cubes per day?


What happens when I want to increase the number of fish or the amount I feed?
What if my screen is over sized? say 72 square inches lit from one side?

48" square inch sized screen would only be about 7"x7" which seems tiny compared to the ATS's people have made.

[notenoughtanks]

Originally Posted by br88dy

Sorry if I'm throwing a cog in the "Settling Tank" wheel discussion, but I wanted to share how successful my nano ATS has become.



-Overflow ATS, 1.5"X4", lit on one side

-160 GPH Pump

-(4) 660nm LED's, 4" from the screen, on 24/7

-Less than a cube of food a day.



I've scrubbed the screen once and this is 3 days after the first scrub.



You could say the screen has matured!



I'll adjust the lighting period when the growth becomes really light colored, but for now it's still on the darker side. It is a lot greener than in the picture, but still not a nice bright green. Will keep everyone updated if anyone cares.

I have a similar setup in the back of my Fluval M60 but with 1/2" pvc coming off a little eheim pump and teed to return. Light hung on the back off of the tank. It has it's ups and downs. I run it 16hrs/day and sometimes it gets nice thick green stuff and others it's brown slime. I clean it weekly. Ultimately has stopped all algae growth in display and I only have to clean the glass every 10-12 days. Glad to see someone else has shoehorned one into a nano!

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by MiddletoM

I'll be honest, this thread makes me feel like this...

Im really struggling to get my head round it all, it kind of seems overly complicated (I know its all well calculated).

For a waterfall ATS...

Can someone confirm for 2 frozen cubes per day I will need a 1 sided screen of 48 square inches with 24 watts of LEDs all on the same side?

Then if I lit the same screen from both sides 12 watts each side it would take 4 cubes per day?


What happens when I want to increase the number of fish or the amount I feed?
What if my screen is over sized? say 72 square inches lit from one side?

48" square inch sized screen would only be about 7"x7" which seems tiny compared to the ATS's people have made.

For each cube equivalent you need 12 square inches of screen, illuminated on both sides.
Think of it as two screens because you are illuminating a total of 24 sq inches (12 sq each side.

So, if you are only going to illuminate a screen on one side, you need a screen that is twice the area, 24 sq inches.

Or imagine it this way. When illuminated on both sides, think of the screen as a piece of paper folded in half.
Now, when illuminated on one side only the paper will need to be unfolded, & all the lighting will be on one side instead of two sides.

[MiddletoM]

Originally Posted by Twinfallz

For each cube equivalent you need 12 square inches of screen, illuminated on both sides.
Think of it as two screens because you are illuminating a total of 24 sq inches (12 sq each side.

So, if you are only going to illuminate a screen on one side, you need a screen that is twice the area, 24 sq inches.

Or imagine it this way. When illuminated on both sides, think of the screen as a piece of paper folded in half.
Now, when illuminated on one side only the paper will need to be unfolded, & all the lighting will be on one side instead of two sides.

ok thanks, think i have that right in my head now. what happens if i decide to start feeding more? would i then have to get a bigger ATS?

Am i right in thinking having a bigger screen than necessary is a bad thing?

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by MiddletoM

ok thanks, think i have that right in my head now. what happens if i decide to start feeding more? would i then have to get a bigger ATS?

Am i right in thinking having a bigger screen than necessary is a bad thing?

You can double the screen size you need, no problem, especially if the only other nutrient export method you use is live rock.

too small is no good really.

[DamonG]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

I'm running my DIY 600W on a 3' x 5' "tub" and I'm fine with it. I'm curious about this much light and any benefits to the colors.

My 600W is very distributed though (~ 2' x 4' lightsheet). This 1200W is very dense... not sure it would work well.

My previous ATS screen was running 300W screens x 2 (one on each side). The ATS was ~ 3' x 4'.

The only thing from what you already know, honestly is that it's going to grow extremely fast(which to me is always good).. If you put it on your settling tank, it's going be insane! Like good insane imho.. Only thing that I have run into no nutrient levels, to the extreme.. But I'm still running my scrubber and the fuge with the 600 watt.. You may have to play with your timing as far as the duration, so it doesn't burn at first.. But I'm sure you will like it and the results..

I just want to stress that it's going to grow extremely fast.. I can, in my cheato harvest on Monday and by Saturday, most of it has grown back.. This is with my 600 watt only running the red and blue channels(not the white).. With 1200 watts, I'd think your going to be looking at, at least the same or more realistically, even faster growth..

Which, for your settling chamber, is probably going to be awesome fun! And your nutrients, if you have any at all, will certainly disappear, even as much as I believe I read at one point you feed.. That's my opinion on what I've experienced..

Keep updated as I think personally it's going to be interesting and fun..

From note 5

[MiddletoM]

Originally Posted by Twinfallz

You can double the screen size you need, no problem, especially if the only other nutrient export method you use is live rock.

too small is no good really.

ok well thats good news. i thought there were issues with the algae not growing thick because of the large surface area for it to grow on.

[br88dy]

Originally Posted by notenoughtanks

I have a similar setup in the back of my Fluval M60 but with 1/2" pvc coming off a little eheim pump and teed to return. Light hung on the back off of the tank. It has it's ups and downs. I run it 16hrs/day and sometimes it gets nice thick green stuff and others it's brown slime. I clean it weekly. Ultimately has stopped all algae growth in display and I only have to clean the glass every 10-12 days. Glad to see someone else has shoehorned one into a nano!

Oh that's clever! Did you make your own LED fixture like me or did you buy something for it?

[br88dy]

Originally Posted by MiddletoM

ok well thats good news. i thought there were issues with the algae not growing thick because of the large surface area for it to grow on.

You might want to look further into this because I've seen examples of screens being too big and not enough nutrients to grow thick algae. Mine included. ATS's don't seem to be an exact science, though, so do whatever works for you. I had to stray a bit from the "normal" lighting schedule for new scrubbers in order to get any initial growth.

From what I've seen after following this thread for a long time, if you have a 1 cube screen and want to double it, you will probably have to break in a new screen that's twice the size. Feeding 1 cube on a 2 cube screen might not give you enough nutrients to remove nitrates from your tank in a timely manner. But, I'm no expert and I could easily be wrong. There's lots of anecdotal evidence that SantaMonica and Turbo can explain better than most people here.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by br88dy

You might want to look further into this because I've seen examples of screens being too big and not enough nutrients to grow thick algae. Mine included. ATS's don't seem to be an exact science, though, so do whatever works for you. I had to stray a bit from the "normal" lighting schedule for new scrubbers in order to get any initial growth.

From what I've seen after following this thread for a long time, if you have a 1 cube screen and want to double it, you will probably have to break in a new screen that's twice the size. Feeding 1 cube on a 2 cube screen might not give you enough nutrients to remove nitrates from your tank in a timely manner. But, I'm no expert and I could easily be wrong. There's lots of anecdotal evidence that SantaMonica and Turbo can explain better than most people here.

I feed 2 cubes a day.
I have a 4 cube set-up.
The algae has no problem growing at all.
The limitations to growth are PO4, NO3, & bicarbonate levels.

[br88dy]

Originally Posted by Twinfallz

I feed 2 cubes a day.
I have a 4 cube set-up.
The algae has no problem growing at all.
The limitations to growth are PO4, NO3, & bicarbonate levels.

Okay interesting! There must have been something else going on with those other scrubbers I saw that couldn't pull it off. There are so many variables with these things, but once they all get dialed in it's a lot easier.

[MiddletoM]

hmmm well even with an oversized screen you could put opaque black acrylic sheets in between the light and screen to limit the growth to a certain area. This way I suppose you then have room for growth if feeding increases.

[MidwesternTexan]

Karim,

You posted your Salinity: 'Salinity 30ppm'

30? My reef runs a steady 35. ??

[karimwassef]

Yes. I've experimented with 30-40 and I found that, for my system, slightly lower salinity is better. That's only true if I keep my Alk, Ca and Mg up though. Mg is the tricky one. I have to keep it artificially high relative to the overall salinity.

I wouldn't necessarily advise it. I'm not sure why it works better for me. The chemists on here say it shouldn't be good. Without a solid theory, I would be cautious in another tank.

I keep my pH artificially alternating between 8.1 and 8.4 with time-controlled Kalk and I inject a lot of air. The weird combination injects a lot of CO2 through aeration (coverts to carbonates) and then a lot of carbonate again through kalk... but I keep it at 8.5dKH.

So... not normal. I don't know what each individual control does but it works so well, I'm not rocking the boat.

[MidwesternTexan]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

Yes. I've experimented with 30-40 and I found that, for my system, slightly lower salinity is better. That's only true if I keep my Alk, Ca and Mg up though. Mg is the tricky one. I have to keep it artificially high relative to the overall salinity.

I wouldn't necessarily advise it. I'm not sure why it works better for me. The chemists on here say it shouldn't be good. Without a solid theory, I would be cautious in another tank.

I keep my pH artificially alternating between 8.1 and 8.4 with time-controlled Kalk and I inject a lot of air. The weird combination injects a lot of CO2 through aeration (coverts to carbonates) and then a lot of carbonate again through kalk... but I keep it at 8.5dKH.

So... not normal. I don't know what each individual control does but it works so well, I'm not rocking the boat.

If it's not there already, this ATS 'tub' and whatever you're doing deserves it's own thread. Nice Work and from my former stomping grounds of TX too.

[karimwassef]

true. I apologize for occasionally hijacking this threat but I learned so much from it, that I feel like sharing here.

I also need a better name for it - settling tank turf scrubber (STTS)?

settling tank turf refugium (STTR)?

I starting digging under the highest layers of turf and I found grape caulerpa in there. I've never had grape caulerpa - so,.... weird. I'll need to do a deep dive and see what's really in there.

[Dans85]

Your settling tank is wicked cool. Seeing this has my wheels turning for my 65g build.

[SantaMonica]

Here is a bump for those looking at these types of lights:

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

In the name of scientific research, I bought and disassembled the popular 20w IP65 plant-grow light to check for wattage and heat.

I removed the power supply for the temperature measurements, because I only wanted to get the heat from the LED, which was a LOT.

It turns out that the LED is getting .59 X 22.8 = 13.5 watts

As thought, the Chinese LEDs are labelled higher than their "real" watts. However, it is still a tremendous amount of heat and light. The back of the case, and the front glass, get too hot to keep your hand on. And the LED lens itself gets sizzling and will burn you.

Overall, even though it's not CE or UL rated, it's a good splash-proof light for the money. Just don't drop it in the water, because water will get inside and short the line voltage there.

More pics in the following post...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...6#post24304046

[br88dy]

Hey guys. I just added 2 clowns to my newly cycled tank. They're happy as can be. Is my aquarium old enough for a new screen to mature? It takes a week to get from 5ppm to 20ppm nitrates. I'm assuming algae can grow because I do have nitrates. Is this true?

- Screen is 5" wide 2.5" tall
- Half cube a day
- 35 gph per sq inch
- No display tank lights yet. Just 2 RapidLED 660nm lights, 2.5" from the screen.
- Currently running 24 hours a day because I have no idea how long they should be on. My previous scrubber worked great with 24/7 lighting but that setup is totally different.