Kessil Club

[Thor2j]

Originally Posted by Esage

The BRS video on the A360 says every 18" for SPS tank

U didn't listen to whole thing or just missed it. Said 4 would be much better for sps. It's a 48" tank. 12:53 in.

I've done extensive testing on these lights. 14" is about max , 12 is better.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by Thor2j

I've done extensive testing on these lights. 14" is about max , 12 is better.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

So you are saying both BRS and Kessil have it wrong. I know about your light meter testing, but I know that both the manufacturer and BRS are not misleading anyone.

I have grown sps successfully with two a360we's on a 4 ft tank. Thats one for each 24" of tank.




One of 3 sps frags:


Same frags later:



orange sps ...sorry for poor pic, all I have


same sps frag a few months later:


stylo frags:


same ones a few months later:


Digitata frag:


After a few months:




And thats with one every 24". See previous page for some acro growth pics. I am not hesitant to say that if you had one a360 every 18", you could grow basically anything. I agree with both Kessil and BRS.

[yeah]

Originally Posted by Bronx19

Rubbish.

You turn a T5 unit on, done. Even the hanging height makes bugger all difference.

LED requires the right intensity, colour, hanging height, spacing.

You only need look at all the LED threads, thousands of questions regarding intensity because 'my corals are shrinking/bleaching'.

Same goes for t5 back in the late 90s and early 2000.. ppl swear that metal halide was only light that can grow sps.. years of trial and error made t5 what they are now..

[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by roberthu526

Dang I am sad! I just bought five 360we's for a 96" long, 30" deep, and 24" high tank thought it would be good enough. Guess I need another one? I am not into acros though. LPS junky here. Do I still need to have more than 6?
Thank you in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

5 should be fine for lps. That's one about every 1.5ft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thor2j]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

So you are saying both BRS and Kessil have it wrong. I know about your light meter testing, but I know that both the manufacturer and BRS are not misleading anyone.

I have grown sps successfully with two a360we's on a 4 ft tank. Thats one for each 24" of tank.




One of 3 sps frags:


Same frags later:



orange sps ...sorry for poor pic, all I have


same sps frag a few months later:


stylo frags:


same ones a few months later:


Digitata frag:


After a few months:




And thats with one every 24". See previous page for some acro growth pics. I am not hesitant to say that if you had one a360 every 18", you could grow basically anything. I agree with both Kessil and BRS.

You didn't listen to brs either. They said for sps 4 would be what they recommended. Let's see 48÷4=12. So 1 per 12" is what brs recommends.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by Thor2j

You didn't listen to brs either. They said for sps 4 would be what they recommended. Let's see 48÷4=12. So 1 per 12" is what brs recommends.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

I listened when the vid first came out. I posted it in this thread. It was a very complimentary review of the A360.
And I saw the tank set up with 4 Kessils. Of course, 4 is going to be better than 3 or 2. Duh. What I am saying is I am running a successful 4' mixed tank with two and I am growing sps in it, as you can see above and below.

I am still going to go with what BRS and Kessil say over what you say. For heavily stocked sps tanks, one every 18" is fine ..because I am growing many with one every 24". I also never run mine over 85%.

I actually have a third a360 but I don't use it because I dont need it to grow sps. I keep it as a spare now.

[vhuang168]

Yes you can grow sps with 2 A360we in a 4' tank. Heck you can grow sps with a single A360we in a 8' tank. If the sps was right under the light!

If you want a mixed reef with sps located at the right areas, yes you can do it with 2 lights on a 4'. If you want an SPS FULL tank, you will need more.

Again, its not about power. I have an AP700 in a 36" tank. If I could break them apart and add a 3rd, I would in a heartbeat.

[ComforablyNumb]

3 would do fine, imo. My sps are towards the upper half of the tank, but many of them are not directly under a light. Several are in the cross-over area where they get light from both units...the digitata and stylo being examples. And as you can also see, I am getting good health and growth with only 2.
If I wasnt, I would add the third one I have on hand. Has not been necessary at all.

These 3 were grown below the mid-depth of my tank (about 2/3's the way down) and not in the middle or directly under a unit, but slightly to the left of the left light:


Was I just "lucky" with these frags...dunno. If I was to put them on the outside edge's of my tank, would they do as well? Highly unlikely. But I reserve the bottom and edges for less light demanding corals. I like the look of lps and some softies over sps anyway. But I can grow whatever I want with two a360's within two thirds of the total area of my tank. And I can grow the others anywhere in the tank. And I would be willing to bet I could get sps to grow anywhere in there with one more added.

The AP700 being even stronger than two a360's, I would think I would be very happy with one over my 4' tank.

As with anything reef, your mileage may vary.

[vhuang168]

With 3 or 4 you would be able to grow sps towards the bottom of the tank. Moving the digitata and Stylo/poci down that way would allow you to put more demanding sps up towards the top of the tank.

Again, its about how much SPS you want in the tank. With what you have, the 2 is fine as you've found out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thor2j]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

I listened when the vid first came out. I posted it in this thread. It was a very complimentary review of the A360.
And I saw the tank set up with 4 Kessils. Of course, 4 is going to be better than 3 or 2. Duh. What I am saying is I am running a successful 4' mixed tank with two and I am growing sps in it, as you can see above and below.

I am still going to go with what BRS and Kessil say over what you say. For heavily stocked sps tanks, one every 18" is fine ..because I am growing many with one every 24". I also never run mine over 85%.

I actually have a third a360 but I don't use it because I dont need it to grow sps. I keep it as a spare now.

1 every 18" would not work on a stocked sps tank. Sorry , thats what brs says and what I did a lot of testing on , but u can think whatever u want.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[ComforablyNumb]

Again, its about how much SPS you want in the tank. With what you have, the 2 is fine as you've found out.

Agreed. It depends on what the individual hobbyist wants.
As I said, I really like my lps corals (candycane, octo's) and I also really like my neon green leather softy. Even though the all acro tanks are impressive, they are not everyone's cup of tea.. or bourbon. Hardly anyone comments on my sps, but many comment on the pls and softies.
By far, the number one draw in my tank is an rtba hosting a gold stripe maroon . Its not even close.

[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by Thor2j

1 every 18" would not work on a stocked sps tank. Sorry , thats what brs says and what I did a lot of testing on , but u can think whatever u want.

Thats not BRS said. Go to the 5 minute mark of the vid..he clearly states "Overall with these measurements alone, I would say a single a360w alone would grow sps near the top of the tank, but not an sps dominant tank. However, this is deceiving because if you put it on an 18" square tank, which Kessil recommends for when used for sps, the glass would focus the light on a smaller area that would almost certainly be suitable for most sps dominent tanks."

They did not say 1 for 18" would not work. They said they would be almost certain to work for sps dominent tanks at every 18".

[smatter]

Only SPS hobbyists want to look at SPS. I have never had one single "civilian" comment on mine. My wife always groans when I say a tank I'm setting up is going to SPS dominant.

[smatter]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

Thats not BRS said. Go to the 5 minute mark of the vid..he clearly states "Overall with these measurements alone, I would say a single a360w alone would grow sps near the top of the tank, but not an sps dominant tank. However, this is deceiving because if you put it on an 18" square tank, which Kessil recommends for when used for sps, the glass would focus the light on a smaller area that would almost certainly be suitable for most sps dominent tanks."

They did not say 1 for 18" would not work. They said they would be almost certain to work for sps dominent tanks at every 18".

I could probably grow SPS under the ledges in my 18" cube with one a360we. It's like a prism in there with light reflecting everywhere.

[Bpb]

Originally Posted by smatter

Only SPS hobbyists want to look at SPS. I have never had one single "civilian" comment on mine. My wife always groans when I say a tank I'm setting up is going to SPS dominant.

To be fair how many of us do this hobby to impress guests as the primary focus? My wife hates sps. Thinks they're ugly and boring. Most the company don't even know they're actual living corals since they don't move. They think they're just colorful rocks/decor. It's always the anemones, euphylia, and dare I say softies like Xenia and toadstools that get all the ooohs and aaaahs from average Joe non-hobbyists that come by. That's not why I do the hobby though and that's not why sps enthusiasts do it. Most of us do it because WE enjoy sps and enjoy sharing pictures of our sps with other sps lovers online to be quite honest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[roberthu526]

Well I don't think any of us Kessil owners bought Kessil because of the powerful par out put. So arguing about par output is not really fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[newbie2014]

Originally Posted by Bpb

To be fair how many of us do this hobby to impress guests as the primary focus? My wife hates sps. Thinks they're ugly and boring. Most the company don't even know they're actual living corals since they don't move. They think they're just colorful rocks/decor. It's always the anemones, euphylia, and dare I say softies like Xenia and toadstools that get all the ooohs and aaaahs from average Joe non-hobbyists that come by. That's not why I do the hobby though and that's not why sps enthusiasts do it. Most of us do it because WE enjoy sps and enjoy sharing pictures of our sps with other sps lovers online to be quite honest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

To me, SPS are the skeletons of a reef tank. And I don't want to look at skeletons...........

I don't mind one colony here and there, but not a dominated SPS tank.....not yet anyways.

[newbie2014]

Originally Posted by roberthu526

Well I don't think any of us Kessil owners bought Kessil because of the powerful par out put. So arguing about par output is not really fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have the cheapest version of a Chinese blackbox, Marsaqua, and I've been thinking about upgrading. Kessil, AI and Radions are on my radar. But I'm leaning toward Kessil because, according to BRS, Kessil LED spreads light most gradually and evenly compared to the other two. In other word, Kessil LED has the least hot spots, and that's very desirable.

[Thor2j]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

Thats not BRS said. Go to the 5 minute mark of the vid..he clearly states "Overall with these measurements alone, I would say a single a360w alone would grow sps near the top of the tank, but not an sps dominant tank. However, this is deceiving because if you put it on an 18" square tank, which Kessil recommends for when used for sps, the glass would focus the light on a smaller area that would almost certainly be suitable for most sps dominent tanks."

They did not say 1 for 18" would not work. They said they would be almost certain to work for sps dominent tanks at every 18".

Then he says if it were him he would put 4 on a 48" tank. Why would he say that if 3 were plenty at 16" each.

Besides I've recorded ton of light data with them . 16" apart is the furthest I would put them. Beyond that it starts to really drop as you spread them. I can grow sps with a $10 Chinese light if I have it high enough in tank . Penetration is a big problem with 360s compared to others including ap700s.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[madweazl]

I think people get to hung up on PAR "requirements" for SPS. 350-500 gets pushed around a lot but I just haven't seen anything that needs over 200 and based on Dana Riddles research of a porites in a tide pool, about 120 seems to be the magic number.

For what it's worth, my lights are set 15" apart and produced 198 PAR at a depth of 16" and pretty much dead center in the tank (left to right and front to back). I have black sand and only the front panel can reflect light to this area (in a little cove of my rock work). In an 18" cube, there is no doubt in my mind that a single A360 is plenty for SPS but as the tank gets longer (less reflective light from the side panels) and deeper (potential penetration issues), it could be problematic (my sand bed sits 15-16" below the surface so I don't have any PAR data beyond that).

Mounting them closer than 15" apart provides no realistic benefit to lateral coverage or PAR (marginal increases) and I doubt it would do much for penetration either, that is a job better left to the 360N.

[ComforablyNumb]

Allow me an opinion. I think acro's/sps are valued in the hobby because they are the hardest to keep. From my experience, that would be about it for a recommendation. They are always the first to die off if anything goes wrong. No movement unlike lps and softies and no real interest for me ..or most folks who look at my tank.

My local dealer calls them colored sticks and slabs.. and I would have to agree. Thats not to slag sps/acro tanks at all. Its just that they have much going against them and not much interest from most observers.

[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by Thor2j

Then he says if it were him he would put 4 on a 48" tank. Why would he say that if 3 were plenty at 16" each.

Even I said 4 would be better than 3 or 2. I think he said that because of light spread versus par/pur. They produced plenty of light at 18" apart to grow sps. H3ll, I'm growing sps with a 24" spread.

Originally Posted by Thor2j

Penetration is a big problem with 360s compared to others including ap700s.

If penetration into a very deep tank is the goal, the a360ne can easily accomplish that. But you would need more of course. The AP700 focuses light in an oblong/rectangular manner instead of a cone due to its lense, and one AP700 is stronger than 2 a360's, no question.

[mfaso24]

As an acro lover I can say this: a lot of the reason i love acros is definitely the challenge. There's a lot of pride in being able to color and grow the most difficult corals. Movement from lps and euphyllias are nice, but in my experience they are just about bullet proof, and they hardly lose color. When I first got in the hobby I said very similar things like "they are boring, they don't move etc etc)
I have to admit though, the look of an all acro tank has grown on me and I'm obsessed with it now. So the challenge is not 100% of the reason for it . Just my personal $0.02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cali9dub]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

As an acro lover I can say this: a lot of the reason i love acros is definitely the challenge. There's a lot of pride in being able to color and grow the most difficult corals. Movement from lps and euphyllias are nice, but in my experience they are just about bullet proof, and they hardly lose color. When I first got in the hobby I said very similar things like "they are boring, they don't move etc etc)
I have to admit though, the look of an all acro tank has grown on me and I'm obsessed with it now. So the challenge is not 100% of the reason for it . Just my personal $0.02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And there are folks out there that prefer green star polyps and mushrooms to sps as well. Lol. I guess to each their own !

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

3 would do fine, imo. My sps are towards the upper half of the tank, but many of them are not directly under a light. Several are in the cross-over area where they get light from both units...the digitata and stylo being examples. And as you can also see, I am getting good health and growth with only 2.
If I wasnt, I would add the third one I have on hand. Has not been necessary at all.

These 3 were grown below the mid-depth of my tank (about 2/3's the way down) and not in the middle or directly under a unit, but slightly to the left of the left light:


Was I just "lucky" with these frags...dunno. If I was to put them on the outside edge's of my tank, would they do as well? Highly unlikely. But I reserve the bottom and edges for less light demanding corals. I like the look of lps and some softies over sps anyway. But I can grow whatever I want with two a360's within two thirds of the total area of my tank. And I can grow the others anywhere in the tank. And I would be willing to bet I could get sps to grow anywhere in there with one more added.

The AP700 being even stronger than two a360's, I would think I would be very happy with one over my 4' tank.

As with anything reef, your mileage may vary.

Those coral pics you posted are not the light hungry Acropora that most desire or reference when talking about lighting. 2 360s on a 4' tank will work, absolutely! However you will be limited to where you can mount them and what corals will be successful.

BRD recommended PAR of 250-350 in the majority of the tank. 2 360's don't do that so they recommend more inorder to fill the tank with appropriate light most all areas of the tank.

My lighting is a bit over kill but I have acros all over and everywhere. Also few shadows or dim areas.

2 Kessil AP700s on a 6' 180 and also 2 60" T5s. If it wasn't for a massive double pane 2' glass center brace on my display I would never have considered adding T5s. With the AP700 only I can easily read 300+ PAR on the sand, everywhere @ only 70% intensity. Add the two 60" ATI Blue Plus T5s and I've got 400+ and 600+ mid level. Still only break about 250 PAR in the very center at the bottom solely due the restrictive glass in the center. Sure wish I could do away with that brace.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk