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Old 12/03/2017, 04:26 PM   #9551
stage3-s4
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For some reason on my setup I cant seem to get the thing to run quiet. It seems that the open channel is very noisy. Lots of air and water mixed in the line (I can hear the water flowing through the Pipes). Also I have to keep the pump output down because as soon as I turn it up the emergency drain starts draining water and never stops. Turning the ball valve on the siphon line does nothing as well. I checked for to make sure there were no air leaks in the siphon line just be to be sure (none found).

Any advice on whats going on? I have attached a picture of my setup for reference. Its all 1" piping and I have a DCS-7000 Return pump.


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Old 12/03/2017, 09:29 PM   #9552
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I figured it out. I guess after I turned my pump off a few times a giant air pocket formed in the standpipe. I had to remove it from the bulkhead to purge the air. Now it works perfectly.


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Old 12/03/2017, 10:29 PM   #9553
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Originally Posted by John McGahern View Post
Thanks again. I should have mentioned that my new tank was drilled for a Beananimal set up but through the bottom, so my overflow AND plumbing will both be internal. With this in mind wouldn't I be able to just drill into the top of the 90 of the open line without the use of the airline and fitting? Would this not work the same way with the hole serving the same purpose as the open end of the tube. If a blockage occurs in the first Siphon line then wouldn't the water rise, cover the hole and then turn the open line into a full siphon much the same way? I would assume the only reason a tube line is used is because of the plumbing being external.
The open channel (the one with the airline) isn’t supposed to syphon unless both the syphon & emergency get clogged. So it is basically the last line of defense on a flood. So the end of the airline is supposed to be above the emergency drain. Without the airline the hole would be below the emergency drain so it wouldn’t work like it is intended to.

U can try & run it without the airline first & see if u have any issues. One issue that can happen is on startup the open channel may syphon because the hole gets covered before the actual syphon line can purge the air for the syphon to kick in. If it does this then the open channel would kick in & out of syphon as the water rises & falls in the overflow & cause the syphon line not to get going.

One way I suppose U could get around using the airline is by using a tee for the standpipe & extend from the top of the tee to where the cap is close to the top of the overflow box & above the emergency. That way the hole would be above the emergency, but it would need to be close to the top of the overflow box


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Old 12/03/2017, 10:47 PM   #9554
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Originally Posted by stage3-s4 View Post
For some reason on my setup I cant seem to get the thing to run quiet. It seems that the open channel is very noisy. Lots of air and water mixed in the line (I can hear the water flowing through the Pipes). Also I have to keep the pump output down because as soon as I turn it up the emergency drain starts draining water and never stops. Turning the ball valve on the siphon line does nothing as well. I checked for to make sure there were no air leaks in the siphon line just be to be sure (none found).

Any advice on whats going on? I have attached a picture of my setup for reference. Its all 1" piping and I have a DCS-7000 Return pump.


In your picture the open channel is taking to much water. Eighther the water level inside the overflow needs to be lowered or the open channel raised. The open channel is supposed to only take a trickle of water. The larger the pipe the more it can handle but with 1” pipe it can’t take much more then a trickle & be silent. U want the water level to be right at a 1/4” or so above the bottom of the inlet on the tee. The inlet where the 90 attaches to the tee, about 1/8” to 1/4” above the bottom of the inlet.

Btw, a 1” syphon can handle between 1,500 to 2,000 gph. So u should be able to run that pump full blast after head loss on the pump & the syphon should be able to handle it. If u have to keep the pump turned way down then something isn’t right. I don’t know the size of your system or the head loss on the pump, but u more then likely don’t need to have the pump wide open, but it should be able to handle it if everything is working correctly


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Old 12/04/2017, 07:30 AM   #9555
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In your picture the open channel is taking to much water. Eighther the water level inside the overflow needs to be lowered or the open channel raised. The open channel is supposed to only take a trickle of water. The larger the pipe the more it can handle but with 1” pipe it can’t take much more then a trickle & be silent. U want the water level to be right at a 1/4” or so above the bottom of the inlet on the tee. The inlet where the 90 attaches to the tee, about 1/8” to 1/4” above the bottom of the inlet.

Btw, a 1” syphon can handle between 1,500 to 2,000 gph. So u should be able to run that pump full blast after head loss on the pump & the syphon should be able to handle it. If u have to keep the pump turned way down then something isn’t right. I don’t know the size of your system or the head loss on the pump, but u more then likely don’t need to have the pump wide open, but it should be able to handle it if everything is working correctly
yea that is exactly what was happening. The problem was I couldn't adjust the water level inside the overflow box due to the full siphon not working properly. I had to purge out some air stuck in the siphon standpipe by disconnecting it from the bulkhead and letting all the water drain out of the over flow box. Once I replaced it back in, it worked fine. Hopefully this doesn't happen every time I turn off my pump. would I be better off just using 2 90s for the siphon instead of a 90 and a T fitting?


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Old 12/04/2017, 08:17 AM   #9556
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your full siphon outlet pipe is probably too deep underwater - preventing it from operating correctly. It cannot purge the air pocket if it's more than an inch underwater at normal operating levels.

This can be caused by the actual length of the pipe. it can also be caused by other variables like running the outlet into a filter sock and the filter sock is running higher than normal because it's clogged.


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Old 12/04/2017, 09:07 AM   #9557
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your full siphon outlet pipe is probably too deep underwater - preventing it from operating correctly. It cannot purge the air pocket if it's more than an inch underwater at normal operating levels.

This can be caused by the actual length of the pipe. it can also be caused by other variables like running the outlet into a filter sock and the filter sock is running higher than normal because it's clogged.
Thats interesting.I thought the whole Idea of the valve was to control the water level in your overflow box. If I can not control the level how can I control how deep the siphon intake is? I guess I can raise the height of the siphon intake to be closer to the height of the bulkhead in the side of the tank. I don't run filter socks at all so that is deff not the problem.


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Old 12/04/2017, 09:15 AM   #9558
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He's referring to the drain end of your siphon line. This needs to be no more than 1" underwater


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Old 12/04/2017, 10:04 AM   #9559
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He's referring to the drain end of your siphon line. This needs to be no more than 1" underwater
That makes sense. Yes I did adjust the length of that pipe because it was well below the 1 inch mark. Now it is 1-2 inches below the water line.


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Old 12/04/2017, 10:30 AM   #9560
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still might be too far. 0.5" to 1" below is all you really need/want


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Old 12/04/2017, 12:42 PM   #9561
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still might be too far. 0.5" to 1" below is all you really need/want
Ill have to find the sweet spot for sure. This is a trition setup so it drains directly into the fuge. Now that I know what the issue was its easier to dial it in. So far seems to be working fine.


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Old 12/04/2017, 03:50 PM   #9562
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Okay, the more I talk with you the more I'm getting my head around it. Tell me if I'm getting this right here...The full siphon obviously is the first in line. The emergency upturned 90 is second and the water if it rose due to the full siphon being blocked would hit that opening first. Then lastly the open line, although the down turned 90 would be at the same depth as the full siphon line, the end of the air line is placed slightly higher than the emergency opening and should only turn into a full siphon if both of the others are blocked?


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Old 12/04/2017, 04:09 PM   #9563
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Ill have to find the sweet spot for sure. This is a trition setup so it drains directly into the fuge. Now that I know what the issue was its easier to dial it in. So far seems to be working fine.
I wouldnít submerge the pipes any more then 1Ē into the sump. If u have 90ís or something else in the lines that makes it harder to purge the air out of the lines then u may be only able to submerge it 1/2Ē into the sump. Like they mentioned above, if it submerged to far into the sump it wonít purge the air for the syphon to kick in.

If I had to guess your syphon wasnít actually syphoning because it had air & that is why the adjusting the valve wasnít doing anything. That is why I brought it up in the last post. It sounded like the syphon wasnít working correctly.


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Old 12/04/2017, 04:13 PM   #9564
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Okay, the more I talk with you the more I'm getting my head around it. Tell me if I'm getting this right here...The full siphon obviously is the first in line. The emergency upturned 90 is second and the water if it rose due to the full siphon being blocked would hit that opening first. Then lastly the open line, although the down turned 90 would be at the same depth as the full siphon line, the end of the air line is placed slightly higher than the emergency opening and should only turn into a full siphon if both of the others are blocked?
That sounds about right. The open channel will always have a trickle of water going through it but u donít want it to syphon unless both other drains get clogged.

I donít know if u saw it in my last post but one way u may be able to get away with using the airline is by extending the top of the open channel standpipe up to where it is close to the top of the overflow box & above the emergency.


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Old 12/04/2017, 05:24 PM   #9565
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That sounds about right. The open channel will always have a trickle of water going through it but u donít want it to syphon unless both other drains get clogged.

I donít know if u saw it in my last post but one way u may be able to get away with using the airline is by extending the top of the open channel standpipe up to where it is close to the top of the overflow box & above the emergency.
Yes I saw that and may consider doing that, thank you. One other thing I wondering is how do I know I'm getting the perfect amount of trickle in the open line. Bean mentions in his post that anything more than a 1/4" of the cross section of the pipe and you'll start to get gurgling as it starts to "pull" down air. If the 90 is turned down in the overflow box and the exit point is below the water line in the sump, how can one tell if you've got it set right. Is it done by adjusting the valve on the full siphon line until I here minimal noise and that's it?


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Old 12/04/2017, 09:09 PM   #9566
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Yes I saw that and may consider doing that, thank you. One other thing I wondering is how do I know I'm getting the perfect amount of trickle in the open line. Bean mentions in his post that anything more than a 1/4" of the cross section of the pipe and you'll start to get gurgling as it starts to "pull" down air. If the 90 is turned down in the overflow box and the exit point is below the water line in the sump, how can one tell if you've got it set right. Is it done by adjusting the valve on the full siphon line until I here minimal noise and that's it?
Basically what he meant was if u connect two 90ís together to make a upside U. Where the two 90ís attach to each other is what he is referring to as the cross section. If u have a tee with a 90 attached then it would be about 1/8Ē to 1/4Ē above the bottom of the inlet on the tee where the 90 attaches to it. To tune it in perfect then yes, u will judge it by the noise & the bubbles exiting the pipe into the sump. I find u start to hear it when it gets more then about 1/8 of the cross section & really loud once it gets above 1/4

The valve on the syphon will actually adjust the water level inside the overflow box, but the hieght of the open channel standpipe will actually determine where u want the water level to be. U donít want the water level inside the overflow to be way lower then the tank & have the water falling to far over the wier on the overflow box because that would get loud. Usually u want the water level inside the overflow to be less then 2Ē below the tank waterline so the waterfall going into the box is less then 2Ē. That is one reason not to glue anything inside of the overflow box, sump u can adjust the heights of the standpipes if u see that u need to once u get everything going.

Byw, if u google - Beananimal Bar & Grill - that is beans website. If u look at his silent & failsafe overflow he gives a good rundown of the system. It may be helpful & give u a better understanding so when u do ask a question u may understand the answer better. I donít mind at all helping but I know Iím not great at explaining things in text sometimes & bean explains things better then me. Sometimes I read what I type & it doesnít come out how I mean it to, Iím better with words then typing.


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Old 12/05/2017, 08:07 AM   #9567
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I wouldn’t submerge the pipes any more then 1” into the sump. If u have 90’s or something else in the lines that makes it harder to purge the air out of the lines then u may be only able to submerge it 1/2” into the sump. Like they mentioned above, if it submerged to far into the sump it won’t purge the air for the syphon to kick in.

If I had to guess your syphon wasn’t actually syphoning because it had air & that is why the adjusting the valve wasn’t doing anything. That is why I brought it up in the last post. It sounded like the syphon wasn’t working correctly.
Yes the siphon was not working properly. It had a giant air pocket in the line that i had to purged out. There are 3 90s in the line between the overflow box and sump. The water level in my sump is currently in flux is what I meant for figuring out the actual length of the pipe that will be below the water line. Thanks for the help though.


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Old 12/05/2017, 04:21 PM   #9568
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On the contrary! I have read the article several times and although I had a basic understanding of what was going, speaking to someone like yourself is INVALUABLE as you're able to answer questions that can't be found just by reading the article. Thanks again!


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Old 12/05/2017, 05:47 PM   #9569
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What do you think of this set up. This is sort of what I was talking about without the use of an air line on the open channel, but just by making sure it's set higher than the emergency..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oya6X3aLUOo


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Old 12/05/2017, 05:55 PM   #9570
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That will be fine. With your type of overflow the water level inside the overflow box will just be higher so the standpipes will be higher in the overflow box. If u can get the hole in the top above the emergency it should work fine.

In the video that is actually a 1.5” ptrap. The hole they are using is a cleanout. It has female threads so if u use something like that then u can always add a airline to it if u find u need it. With the female threads u can get the right size John Guest fitting & it would screw straight into the p-trap



Last edited by Lsufan; 12/05/2017 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 12/10/2017, 03:17 PM   #9571
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Just checking to see if my posting is working


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