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Old 07/10/2007, 12:58 AM   #76
happyface888
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What are the symptoms of fish caught using cyanide? Bleach hmm interesting does it knock them out or something?


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Old 07/10/2007, 01:24 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by happyface888
What are the symptoms of fish caught using cyanide? Bleach hmm interesting does it knock them out or something?
Here are a couple good articles that are related...

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-01/sp/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

In addition to the things mentioned in those articles I've seen clear/white stringy feces claimed to be a symptom of cyanide (though there are certainly other causes of this), and over time it will cause sores and ulcers and the colors will fade rather than that "aura" descibed in the articles. Lastly, odor of bitter almond on the breath of the fish is a dead giveaway


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Old 07/10/2007, 09:17 AM   #78
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peter, Ihave a Centropyge heraldi, he is vary ez to take care of some live rock older tank and wela. peteI have a dragonette he was starving at the lfs,I took him home I put him in a 75 gal. tank with some live rock, and a few weeks later he was fine just meet ther needs! I have a anemone under the right light and feed abot once a week mine has gotin big. some anemones are harder to keep than others, so do your home work. Right abut thoes Amphiphions tank raised are always best, any thing is! I have a moray eel snowflake my 4 year old son feeds him. when you buy an eel make shor you know how big he well get. Damselfish aggressive? I have to yellow tails, not only are they NOT aggressive mine lay eggs on the glass. I got one of those lawnmower blennys he eats shimpeletts alge discs flak food and helps with the alge in the tank vary ez to keep. I have a rainfords goby stays small and eats the red slime agle, he is not hard to keep , just give him what he eats and he will be fine! Funny you brut up the potters his next in my tank can`t wayt to get he! He will do well in my tank I know what he eats! Hers some saggestions pete many decades pete thar are some ananames can live for a 100 years or more. the bta are vary hardy and most clowns like them! I agree with you pete I have a species tank. pete a lot of your picks were well off the mark but I no you try good job. hope I help buddy!


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Old 07/10/2007, 11:33 AM   #79
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Originally posted by loosecannon
peter, Ihave a Centropyge heraldi, he is vary ez to take care of some live rock older tank and wela. peteI have a dragonette he was starving at the lfs,I took him home I put him in a 75 gal. tank with some live rock, and a few weeks later he was fine just meet ther needs! I have a anemone under the right light and feed abot once a week mine has gotin big. some anemones are harder to keep than others, so do your home work. Right abut thoes Amphiphions tank raised are always best, any thing is! I have a moray eel snowflake my 4 year old son feeds him. when you buy an eel make shor you know how big he well get. Damselfish aggressive? I have to yellow tails, not only are they NOT aggressive mine lay eggs on the glass. I got one of those lawnmower blennys he eats shimpeletts alge discs flak food and helps with the alge in the tank vary ez to keep. I have a rainfords goby stays small and eats the red slime agle, he is not hard to keep , just give him what he eats and he will be fine! Funny you brut up the potters his next in my tank can`t wayt to get he! He will do well in my tank I know what he eats! Hers some saggestions pete many decades pete thar are some ananames can live for a 100 years or more. the bta are vary hardy and most clowns like them! I agree with you pete I have a species tank. pete a lot of your picks were well off the mark but I no you try good job. hope I help buddy!
OK


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Old 07/10/2007, 11:45 AM   #80
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Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Lastly, odor of bitter almond on the breath of the fish is a dead giveaway
Yikes! I'll pass on checking that final symptom.


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Old 07/10/2007, 11:57 AM   #81
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I've noticed people, oddly enough, seeming to react negatively to 'their' fish being on the list: I'd say they should feel either lucky or pleased that they've succeeded in keeping their 'difficult' fish alive and well. I kept a ribbon eel, Lord help me---it was expensive, and it was an experience, but I'm sure not upset to see him on the list: go back, new reefer, it's not an experience I'd ever recommend. If you do have a 'difficult' fish and he's doing well, by all means, share your method and management for the rest of us.


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Old 07/10/2007, 12:08 PM   #82
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Originally posted by TWallace
I've tried a few Potter's over the years and would definitely agree they're not as easy to care for as most other dwarf angels. I currently have one in my 55. I've had it about a month (2 weeks in QT first). So far it's looking good and eating ok, but I still think it could die at any second, due to my previous experiences with them. It was a picky eater at first, but luckily I leave my QT running at all times and it has a healthy population of copepods, amphipods and mysis shrimp, which the Potter's devoured.
My experiences with store bought potters have been similar. They just get beat up, and get kept in totally innappropriate holding tanks, and can't take it.


I've bought one from a really good 'online' place, and bought one locally from another reefer, and both have been remarkably healthy, and easy to care for.

So my oppinion? Hardy, but not generally collected and shipped properly. Kind of like leopard wrasses.


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Old 07/10/2007, 12:29 PM   #83
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I've noticed people, oddly enough, seeming to react negatively to 'their' fish being on the list
I've noticed this as well and see it every time Peter puts his list up. "This species shouldn't be on the list because I have kept one for "X" amount of years, blah, blah...." I look at this list as a guideline for beginners and a very good one. I might be able to nitpick a selection here and there but overall this list is very, very good. Nicely done Peter.


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Old 07/10/2007, 12:49 PM   #84
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Originally posted by Kahuna Tuna
I've noticed this as well and see it every time Peter puts his list up. "This species shouldn't be on the list because I have kept one for "X" amount of years, blah, blah...." I look at this list as a guideline for beginners and a very good one. I might be able to nitpick a selection here and there but overall this list is very, very good. Nicely done Peter.
I agree. I'll happily use myself as an example. Anthias suck. They can be temperamental feeders, get bullied by other fish, require huge amounts of food and filtration, and their rediculous social structures have had me pulling my hair out on more than one occassion. I've lost plenty in my day, and completely agree that they should be where they are on the list, as a group. My post earlier in this thread was to state the fact that if we are going outside of the "group as a whole" description, then tuka should be at the top of the anthias-to-avoid list, not bimacs or squarespots.


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Old 07/10/2007, 01:18 PM   #85
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Pipe Organ Coral is difficult?!?!

I had no idea. This was one of my first corals and I never had any issues with it. It has suffered some questionable parameters and poor lighting (it grew fine at the bottom of the tank that was lit only by NO bulbs).

Perhaps since this was a frag from another tank rather than wild caught that is why it is easy to care for. *Shrug*.


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Old 07/10/2007, 02:36 PM   #86
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Originally posted by barjam
Pipe Organ Coral is difficult?!?!

I had no idea. This was one of my first corals and I never had any issues with it. It has suffered some questionable parameters and poor lighting (it grew fine at the bottom of the tank that was lit only by NO bulbs).

Perhaps since this was a frag from another tank rather than wild caught that is why it is easy to care for. *Shrug*.
Pipe organ is another "Easy but is usually collected improperly"


Its actually a softie, and the entire thing is alive. Collectors just hack off the top sometimes, and it tends to just wither away.



My Pet Peave with the list: Anemones. Theres very little thats easier to keep than a BTA, Condy, or Rock anemone. Theyre just as easy as mushrooms, except when you put them in a bad place, they can move.


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Old 07/10/2007, 02:57 PM   #87
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My Pet Peave with the list: Anemones. Theres very little thats easier to keep than a BTA, Condy, or Rock anemone. Theyre just as easy as mushrooms, except when you put them in a bad place, they can move.
One of the major problems is that they are being collected from the wild and are disappearing from the reefs. Maybe you can make a case for propagated BTA's but most anemones are horrible choices for the average aquarist. I keep an LTA which is a species that is among the best suited for the home aquarium but if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have got one and wont have one again unless its captive bred.


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Old 07/10/2007, 03:08 PM   #88
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Originally posted by Kahuna Tuna
One of the major problems is that they are being collected from the wild and are disappearing from the reefs. Maybe you can make a case for propagated BTA's but most anemones are horrible choices for the average aquarist. I keep an LTA which is a species that is among the best suited for the home aquarium but if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have got one and wont have one again unless its captive bred.
I for one, have never seen a wild caught BTA. Not once.


People can't even get rid of them around here. Seriously. You cant give away GBTAs.

That fact alone proves that theyre much more suitable for the average aquarist than most of the corals we keep.


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Old 07/10/2007, 03:35 PM   #89
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I for one, have never seen a wild caught BTA. Not once.
You must not have been in the hobby long, propagated BTA's haven't been around all that long. OK, That's one species out of many available and the most common I see at stores are sebae's which are terrible choices. Sebea's, magnificent's, carpet's, crispa's, adhaesivum, and many others are just doomed for the most part. They often come in torn up, dyed, and just a mess.

"Know though that the vast majority of specimens aquarists try only live days to a few weeks... largely due to the trauma of collection, holding, shipping practices before they get them... and secondarily due to factors such as a lack of light, inappropriate feeding, being placed in poor water quality, with incompatible livestock... -Bob Fenner

Far too many of these beautiful creatures are being destroyed for no good reason. Thats why they are on the list.


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Old 07/10/2007, 03:41 PM   #90
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Originally posted by Kahuna Tuna
You must not have been in the hobby long, propagated BTA's haven't been around all that long. OK, That's one species out of many available and the most common I see at stores are sebae's which are terrible choices. .
4 or 5 years. What was going on back further than that is irrelevant at this point. I'd be willing to bet that atleast 80% of BTAs available now are captive propagated (most in AQ facilities). How they were distributed 15 years ago doesnt matter at this point.

I disagree with the Sebae. Theyre again like the pipe organ: VERY HARDY if you dont absolutely destroy them while collecting them. They're not difficult to keep, people are just doing stupid stuff to them. Anemones being dyed has nothing to do with whether they're suitable for aquarium keeping.

I've kept a lot of animals. If you want to put most anemones on the list, then IMO, every single SPS and LPS coral should be on that list.


Magnificas, different story.


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Old 07/10/2007, 03:58 PM   #91
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If you want to put most anemones on the list, then IMO, every single SPS and LPS coral should be on that list.
I agree, they should be on the list also, especially wild collected corals. And BTW mortality rates for sebae's are horrific precisely because the vast majority of them DO come in ripped up. And anemones being dyed has everything to do with their suitability, it is happening and far too frequently.


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Old 07/10/2007, 04:39 PM   #92
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Wow what a sweet list of fishes, Nice list Peter. I appreciate the work that people put in to make a simple and fun list to help others. Hey it might not be what you want but atleast its something that you can use as a guide. AWSOME


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Old 07/10/2007, 05:28 PM   #93
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Originally posted by Kahuna Tuna
And anemones being dyed has everything to do with their suitability, it is happening and far too frequently.
No, it doesnt.

If you dont buy the dyed ones, people will stop wasting their time dying them. Brown ones are perfectly suitable, and very hardy animals.


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Old 07/10/2007, 06:46 PM   #94
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loosecannon, Most of your points are against the norm. For the most part, dragonettes are not for the beginner. Heraldis ARE normally caught with chemicals are do not fare well. Again you have an unusual one....
snowflake eels are very easy to keep and are a good specimen to keep in captivity because they don't get all that big in comparison. Im thinking Peter was lumping them all together along with green morays and tesselatta eels etc.

There is always someone who is able to keep one certain fish that 200 others have failed at trying to keep. By no means should this one person be the "rule" to this particular fish. You can keep any fish if you meet their needs. I can keep an orange spot filefish if i feed it acros which is the ONLY food it eats....


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Old 07/10/2007, 07:17 PM   #95
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No, it doesnt.
Rich, you are missing the point. Thousands of dyed anemones are sold to NEWBIES every week, saying that if people dont buy them , wholesalers wont dye them is meaningless because NEWBIES dont know any better. That is what the list is all about. I live here in So Cal, one the largest hubs for marine wildlife in the entire world. I can state with certainly that a huge portion of the livestock you see in Beantown has come through here first. I've been doing this for nearly thirty years now, I know what I'm talking about and am not going to get dragged further into an argument with you. I could take you down to the LA wholesalers tomorrow and show you things that would make you shudder. Dyed anemones, dead and dying anemones, anemones that should have been left on the reef, tens of thousands of them. They belong on that list, period. That is what I know to be true, you can choose to believe whatever you want to believe, I really dont care what you believe anymore.


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Old 07/10/2007, 07:36 PM   #96
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Carpet anemones, now---in my first reef, in a wet-dry, HO lit reef, I got a carpet and two clarkiis, as I recall---we had both percs and clarkiis at different times, and this was nearly 3 decades ago. They took to that anemone and fed it and punched it and generally beat on it---result: in a fairly raw from-seed-rock and crushed coral tank about 8 weeks in cycle and still unstable as all getout, that 'nem grew, and grew, and grew, and within 6 months, starting from about 7 inches, took over about 1/3 of a 100g tank [50g sump]. Never had any luck at all with any other nem. We sold those clowns and the nem together. It ate several small fish, whether dead or alive, I have no idea. It was probably a case of stumbling into just the right chemistry and lighting, and once the tank matured and changed its chemistry according to the way we did tanks in those days, meaning no skimmer, no frequent water changes, it couldn't repeat that success.


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Current Tank Info: 105g, hermits, snails, mandy, 3 black axilchromis, azure damsel, starry/tailspot blennies, 2 firefish, royal gramma, 2 redstripe goby, YWG pair, 2 pearl jawfsh; blue star damsel; 3 stripe damsel; blue devil damsel; 2 lemon chromis
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Old 07/10/2007, 08:10 PM   #97
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Hmm I think I might of asked this, but where would tube anemones stand?


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Old 07/10/2007, 08:30 PM   #98
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Hmm I think I might of asked this, but where would tube anemones stand?
Despite the name they aren't anemones at all. I kept one back in the day and it was moderately hardy. here's a good article.

http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/g...beAnemones.htm


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Old 07/10/2007, 08:56 PM   #99
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Yeah I still have mine, its extremely hardy had it since I started SW tanks, about 7 years. The more I feed it the more it grows the less I feed it, it shrinks. It even lived through cuprimine @_@


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Old 07/10/2007, 09:22 PM   #100
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I think tube anemones, like many specialized inverts, are VERY hardy IF placed in the proper environment. Few people do this, considering their potential size and sting.


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