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Old 08/03/2007, 09:25 AM   #451
asnatlas
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fliger
I just read some more. Come on, its not the moving. Thats ridiculous. Tanks get moved all the time. This is silicone failing plane and simple. I don't think you and Troll are the only ones. Notice the thread's title. Pix are from Conceyted

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...o&pagenumber=1
Thanks for the info Fliger, I will have to read over this thread... His seems a bit worse then mine... His was an AO tank as well, but quite as large as mine, but still...


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Old 08/03/2007, 09:30 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally posted by cward
I think at this point any scenario is pure speculation. No matter what caused the problem, it still stinks.
I agree 100% but just in the past 9 months there are two threads about an AO tank coming apart at the seams... I am not saying its not possible, but right now until more is found out about what happened the linking factor is AO... It could be they are selling more tanks then anyone else so the % could be higher, or many other things... I have contacted AO to see what can be done... I will update as I get info...


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Old 08/03/2007, 09:41 AM   #453
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Quote:
Originally posted by spazz
after seeing the pictures i would say it is the fault of aquarium obssessed. alot of tank that i have see custom built have the braces in the corner cross each other to give the corners better support. it may not look as nice but the seams never pull apart like that. the only other thing i can think of is the guys that put the tank together didnt clean the edges with acitone before they siliconed it together. dirt and oil form your hands can make for a poor bonding surface. the silicone will stick for a while but its not the greatest bond. if aquarium obsessed does not go good for this that you need to spread the word about there warrantee. that is a bunch of poo poo. 1 year on an aquarium is not the standard in this industry. oceaniac and all glass have life time warrantees. they should at least have a 5 year warrantee.
in my mind if they only warrantee there aquariums for 1 year then they make below standard aquariums and people should be informed about this. im sure you paid them a lot of money for there product. now they should back up thet product.
good luck with this. in the end im sure you will redo the tank and it will be alot better. i have helped in the cutting apart of a starfire tank and resiliconeing it. if you need any pointers let me know.
Spazz, I agree, when I first saw the tank I kinda questioned the eurobracing for a few days and then shrugged it off because I only heard good things about AO tanks... I do know what your talking about, I have also seen builders do the eurobracing like AO does, but they would stick a wedge on the bottom side to double up on the seam of the eurobracing to have better bonding serface in that area... I think I have even see acrylic done in the same mannor...

Again I don't know but when I sit back (even before this post) I was thinking that it was just the shear weight of the water/pressure and over time the silicone just gave way starting at the eurobracing and working its way down that back/right corner since the eurobracing only at the 5"x.5" seam holding it together... The other thing that prob did not help was I paid for the Starphire eurobracing which at the time only came in .5" thickness, If I would have went with the standard glass it may have been 3/4" so a little more bonding surface...

What ever the outcome is if I do end up getting it fixed on my dime or with AOs help I will be adding extra glass in the corners of the eurobracing to double up on the silicone to surface area to help make sure this does not happen again...


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Old 08/03/2007, 09:48 AM   #454
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Quote:
Originally posted by erics3000
I know what you mean I just order a 300 from Glass Cages. I went with low iron for the 2 viewable sides.. Glass Cages does use that black steel trim around the corners.

Hopefully they work something out with you.
Are you sure it's black steel ?? Every GC tank I have seen it was a plastic trim... Not sure if there is an "upgrade" avail or not... I am just asking...


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Old 08/03/2007, 09:50 AM   #455
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Quote:
Originally posted by CAreefer
It isn't just AO either, all manufacturers have their problems. They put out lots of tanks. They can't all be perfect. IMO it's how they take care of the ones that aren't that counts the most. We will see how LeeMar takes care of theirs. I know how they've taken care of it for the last 2 years!



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CAreefer, I am sorry to hear about your tank I agree all tanks manufacturers deal with this, its just part of the job, but I hate to see it happen, as for me I have not exp it first hand and really in my case it could have been worse and in some cases I have seen, its nothing compared to others...


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Old 08/03/2007, 10:04 AM   #456
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Quote:
Originally posted by szwab
Shawn one thing you may want to look into before resetting your tank are the vertical supports of you stand. IMHO the vert. supports should always be under supporting the horizontals. When the stand settles. which they all do to some extent, the trick is for it to do this in an evenly. With the vert extending up past the horizontals they are essentially separate surfaces that may not move in unison with the rest of the stand top. This could create pressure points even with foam under the tank since your dealing with 5,000+ pounds. Not saying this was the cause but definately something worth checking in your process of trying to figure out why the tank failed.
szwab, I know what your saying but I have both, I have the verticals right along side 2x6s sitting on 2x4s... and in the corners I have a 3rd layer if you will while also doubling up in the corners on the other first to layers... I am not an expert stand builder but the stand seems overbuilt as it is, granted its not like others here on RC...






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Old 08/03/2007, 10:06 AM   #457
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbui2
now thats what i call customer service.
That's just a post for right now... I have contacted AO and will update this thread with info as I get it...


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Old 08/03/2007, 10:13 AM   #458
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaveManNOhio
I've read where some are saying silicone failure, and AO should be responsible for it even under those circumstances. I would have to say I don't agree with that. That would fallback on the manufacture of the silicone. IMO
But I also think that before any us really knows what happened or why it happened, it was wrong for most of you to automatically jump on the band wagon of it being AO's fault and pretty much forcing them into a situation that is really no concern of any one other than the parties involved.(slam me if you want)

I also agree with szwab, I would consider making some changes to that stand. I think I would use nothing less that 4x4 in the corners and middle support areas and under the horizontal supports.
Also curious when you leveled it, what length level did you use.

Again I'm sorry it as turned out the way it as for you and I hope it all works out in the long run.
I don't see why 4x4 area needed, I believe a 2x4 can hold around 5k+ lbs on end or something like that... I believe that my stand is over build (not much) the way it is and that if I did 4x4s it would be more over build then others on RC with larger tanks... I am not saying my stand is perfect nor that its not cause for the problem, but I do have a few 2x6s along with with the 2x4s...

I believe it was a 5ft level that I used all over the top of the stand...


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Old 08/03/2007, 10:20 AM   #459
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[QUOTE]
Again I don't know but when I sit back (even before this post) I was thinking that it was just the shear weight of the water/pressure and over time the silicone just gave way starting at the eurobracing and working its way down that back/right corner since the eurobracing only at the 5"x.5" seam holding it together... The other thing that prob did not help was I paid for the Starphire eurobracing which at the time only came in .5" thickness, If I would have went with the standard glass it may have been 3/4" so a little more bonding surface...

[QUOTE]

I have AO tank which is 96x42x30high. It has the regular glass for the bracing and it is .5" the same as yours. I think that is the way they build their tanks.
Do you have any cross braces?


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Old 08/03/2007, 10:22 AM   #460
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Quote:
Originally posted by NexDog
Damn, that hurts. Sorry to hear about that.

I can't remember the rest of the thread but I can't recall too many major issues. Lets face it, we are keeping animals in an artificial environment. Fish die, corals die, equipment dies. You seem to have gotten really depressed over the loss of the fish and this is understandable on some scale but to the point of throwing in the towel?

Reefkeeping, and especially Large Tanks requires a huge amount of things many have in short supply. I'm talking time, money, and stamina (in terms of motivation). All of these I have in short supply for sure. I'm good at building things but my problem in anything has always been in sustaining it. In the last 18 months I probably spent $2k on coral and it's pretty much all dead now. Last year I couldn't fix my temp issues without opening the access doors and keeping the air con on in my office 24/7. This resulted in lots of mildew in my office and wallpaper peeling etc. And I designed the system to be enclosed! Never been able to fix the microbubbles. RODI system never pumped out 50GPD and when the weather started cooling down last winter it trickled out at maybe 10GPD. So barely enough to top-off and not enough for water changes. Then my lights started breaking, more expense, nitrates rising, bought a denitrator, didn't work, more expense. The Vortechs simply fell apart. Are we seeing a trend here?

So issues combined with expense started to make me resent the tank. The last thing I did was around last November which was installing an industrial extractor fan and ducting to canopy and made a duct box over the ballasts. Of course this cost more money. So I didn't order a new RODI unit or cartridges. I just didn't do any water changes. And in the end it didn't put out enough to cover top-off so I used tap water. I cleaned the tank every two months, fed the fish, did the bare minimum and now with PO4 and NO3 off the chart only a hammer and mushrooms are surviving.

Point I'm making is that there will always be issues and you haven't really started on the main display yet. I'm now getting back it into it as I feel I spent all this money so a couple of grand here and there is really necessary in order to maintain this thing I have created. Now if my tank was to crack or seal to break I have to ask myself what would I do. After all the issues and if the tank manufacturer didn't want to look after me I think it would be the end because even a free tank means something ridiculous in shipping to Japan. In my case I think I'd take a hiatus from the hobby until I could start again but then again maybe not?

I guess you have some big decisions to make and it comes down to how much you want that tank.
Long time no see NexDog, I am sorry to hear about your problems as well

I was not expecting this to be "easy" but its seems to be giving me alot more problems when your avg reefer... And it seems every time I turn around it something new and worse then the time before... I have not thrown in the towel yet, but right now its in my head to just cut my loses... I guess I will see how it works out and go from there... I loved the tank and don't want to see it go, but if it will let me keep the little bit of hair I do have left and not seem like I am just pouring money down the drain or onto my carpet to be later sucked up and tossed then I may have to go that route...


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Old 08/03/2007, 10:23 AM   #461
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Quote:
Originally posted by spazz
after seeing this i think all will be well in the end. dont give up hope shawn. there is light at the end of the tunnel.
this is just another one of lifes little tests.
I hope so... I can't see the light yet, but I am sure its there


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Old 08/03/2007, 10:29 AM   #462
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tomasz
[QUOTE]
Again I don't know but when I sit back (even before this post) I was thinking that it was just the shear weight of the water/pressure and over time the silicone just gave way starting at the eurobracing and working its way down that back/right corner since the eurobracing only at the 5"x.5" seam holding it together... The other thing that prob did not help was I paid for the Starphire eurobracing which at the time only came in .5" thickness, If I would have went with the standard glass it may have been 3/4" so a little more bonding surface...

Quote:

I have AO tank which is 96x42x30high. It has the regular glass for the bracing and it is .5" the same as yours. I think that is the way they build their tanks.
Do you have any cross braces?
I only have the eurobracing...



I would recommend siliconing some extra "blocks" of glass to the bottom of your eurobracing at the corners to overlap the seams if its the same as mine, I would check with AO and other tank builders before doing so, but I can only see it helping as it would give you more silicone/surface area to help hold everything together...

See the pic below to get an idea of what I am talking about...




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Old 08/03/2007, 11:37 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally posted by asnatlas


See the pic below to get an idea of what I am talking about...

I have 2 cross bracess at 10" wide each, but nothing in the corners. I will contact Will at AO and see what he has to say.


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Old 08/03/2007, 12:50 PM   #464
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Shawn, my InterAmerican tank is made the same way as yours with Eurobracing that does not overlap.

And yes, I do worry about it failing one day. I've also talked with my insurance company about the damage it would do to my home if it ever failed. They told me it would have to be an explosion to be claim-worthy. A leak would not be covered.


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Old 08/03/2007, 01:53 PM   #465
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Originally posted by melev


I've also talked with my insurance company about the damage it would do to my home if it ever failed. They told me it would have to be an explosion to be claim-worthy. A leak would not be covered.
I also talked with my insurance and they told me it would be treated as a plumbing failure in the house (where small leak can cost a fortune to fix. Drywall, carpets, hardwood floors etc). Hopefully we'll never have to use this claim.


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Old 08/03/2007, 03:14 PM   #466
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see that guy leaning on the side of the tank? It's his fault! j/k of course.

Let's see what AO does and then we can brain-storm about how to keep it happening again. I have a couple ideas already, but to be honest. I am a bit surprised there is no center brace. Seems like a long tank with no brace, but then again, rimless tanks have nothing...


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Old 08/03/2007, 05:42 PM   #467
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you might want to reinforce the top and bottom the way this tank is done. it is a 300+g tank that is all starfire glass. it is .5" thick also. we had to cut it apart because the first time it was siliconed together there was a little too much drinking and not enough checking of fit on the edges. so in the end there was bubbles in the seams. i went over to help cut it apart and clean everything up and re silicone it back together. its not hard to do its just time consuming. you might want to have some reinforcement pieces added to the top and bottom of the tank to make sure this never happens again.





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Old 08/03/2007, 07:39 PM   #468
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and you held it together with Crisco? I never heard of that...so many uses!


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Old 08/03/2007, 07:57 PM   #469
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Quote:
Originally posted by jnarowe
and you held it together with Crisco? I never heard of that...so many uses!
LOL


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Old 08/03/2007, 08:00 PM   #470
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and you held it together with Crisco? I never heard of that...so many uses!
hey dont laugh at me. that is my arm there. that job is not as easy as you would think it is. there is tricks to all trades. and that is a big one to building a tank and making it look good.


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Old 08/03/2007, 08:01 PM   #471
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CRISCO


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Old 08/03/2007, 08:27 PM   #472
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Cross-posting my problem into this thread since I may get advice from AO or Spazz:



I thought I better check the corners of my eurobracing because of a recent thread I saw. 3 of four corners look perfect, but this one looks like I need to be very concerned. I'd like to get your advice about how to proceed on mending this area before the tank worsens.




You can post in my thread if you prefer.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...8#post10477638


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Old 08/03/2007, 08:33 PM   #473
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WOW mark!! So sorry to see that. Who built your tank?


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Old 08/03/2007, 08:38 PM   #474
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This is a tank built by InterAmerican in the early spring of 2004.


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Old 08/03/2007, 08:40 PM   #475
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that can be easily fixed with out tearing the tank down. but it should be done fairly soon.


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