Jekyll and Hyde counter current skimmer

toeside · 02/02/2008, 06:55 AM

Basically new to this sport... I'm working towards a 55g setup, but while I get the cabinet, sump, etc. together, I'm setting up a 10g to see how many different ways things can go wrong.

The 10g has been online for 6 days. Basically cycling and curing some rock. I have an "old school" counter current skimmer, 22" in height, hung on the side, which will eventually move to a tall 18g sump/refugium underneath.

The skimmer has a limewood bubbler and it foams righteously. It is fed tank water from a small powerhead positioned just slightly below the surface.

What is curious, though, is how finicky it is to get the foam column to rise to the proper height to skim.

Twice I've dialed it in to where the cup is collecting skimmate just right. However, it has also has a tendency to randomly foam out-of-control. I can't determine why it does this.

Yesterday when I left for work, it was percolating nicely... when I got home, I had about a gallon of water on the floor from excessive foaming.

I know these skimmers aren't popular these days, but I hate to just toss it. Heck, my son says it looks "high tech"

Hoping one of you "reef masters" might know what's happening here. Any input is appreciated...

Percula9 · 02/02/2008, 01:59 PM

The addition of any type of water conditioner will cause over foaming. Can you post a pic of the skimmer? You can drill a drain hole into the cup, then run a drain tube to a large container. This way if it over foams it will have a place to drain to.

toeside · 02/02/2008, 05:09 PM

Excellent suggestions Percula... In fact, I've been pondering the drain hole idea. That should help limit my cleaning of the carpet with sea water to, oh, once a week or so

I haven't added any conditioners to the water... although it did occur to me that in washing my hands prior to tank maintenance, some unrinsed soap from my hands got in.

I have a valve on the air hose, I'm thinking of just turning the air down and keeping a close eye on it when I can be around.

I now have this theory that some sand on other solids suspended in the water suppress the foaming, and once those settle and/or clear, the foaming increases. Thus the seeming randomness of the problem.

Perhaps too, stopping the skimmer to clean the cup may cause some wierdness in the water contained in the column when the foaming stops.

I'll hook the skimmer back up and posts some pics...

Thanks again

Percula9 · 02/02/2008, 06:18 PM

I also have a air pump driven skimmer for my nano reef. It sits inside a box filter compartment hanging on the tank. It doesn't require a pump to move the water through it. So I never have any overflow problems. Try to keep the water level in your tank constant. If the water is to high it will raise the water level in your skimmer. Is there a control valve on the circulation pump to the skimmer? You might try slowing the flow a little to see if that helps. The drain hole is your best insurance against wet carpet.

toeside · 02/03/2008, 03:16 PM

Posted a few pictures of the skimmer that illustrate the problem. I'm experimenting with the air flow now... that seems, so far, to be the answer.

Percula9 · 02/03/2008, 07:27 PM

How do you control the water height ? Lower the water height by putting a valve on the return.

Fish_wiz2 · 02/03/2008, 09:16 PM

Dude what it is pulling out is water not skimmate so you need to tune it somehow.

toeside · 02/03/2008, 10:50 PM

See, what works is a valve on the *air*. By dialing the air flow back the foam column doesn't rise as high and everything is cool....

frank2926 · 02/03/2008, 10:51 PM

A few things you can do. Cut down the amount of air, you can try putting the airstone on the very bottom of the skimmer, this will increase the pressure and cut it down a little. You can slow down the amount of water entering the skimmer. This will also help. If you can slow down the water you may not have to cut back the air.
I would also try changing the drain line. take off the clear hose and point the drain straight down. With it on an angle and submerged it could be causing back pressure in the skimmer.

All of this will be until the skimmer breaks in. this can take a couple of weeks in some cases. You need a layer of bacteria,(slime) to coat the skimmer body. When this happens you will see less overflows and more consistant skimming.

toeside · 02/03/2008, 11:10 PM

Frank.. thanks for the intelligent answer... it seems to me as well that the bubbler should be sitting on the bottom. More distance means more contact time, and thus more effective fractionation. But, this is the way it came when I bought it, and I can't help but wonder if it is placed there by design.

Ever since I started complaining about this here on the board, the skimmer has behaved rather nicely... the worst of the break-in is behind me I do believe...

frank2926 · 02/03/2008, 11:14 PM

sounds like it was just break in problems. Remember if /when you clean the skimmer body it will have to break in again. It usually does not take as long then . good luck

02/02/2008, 06:55 AM	#1
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 39	Jekyll and Hyde counter current skimmer Basically new to this sport... I'm working towards a 55g setup, but while I get the cabinet, sump, etc. together, I'm setting up a 10g to see how many different ways things can go wrong. The 10g has been online for 6 days. Basically cycling and curing some rock. I have an "old school" counter current skimmer, 22" in height, hung on the side, which will eventually move to a tall 18g sump/refugium underneath. The skimmer has a limewood bubbler and it foams righteously. It is fed tank water from a small powerhead positioned just slightly below the surface. What is curious, though, is how finicky it is to get the foam column to rise to the proper height to skim. Twice I've dialed it in to where the cup is collecting skimmate just right. However, it has also has a tendency to randomly foam out-of-control. I can't determine why it does this. Yesterday when I left for work, it was percolating nicely... when I got home, I had about a gallon of water on the floor from excessive foaming. I know these skimmers aren't popular these days, but I hate to just toss it. Heck, my son says it looks "high tech" Hoping one of you "reef masters" might know what's happening here. Any input is appreciated...

02/03/2008, 09:16 PM	#7
Fish_wiz2 Mangroves are kool. Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chi-City Posts: 4,596	Dude what it is pulling out is water not skimmate so you need to tune it somehow. __________________ Feed my fish, turn on some music, sit back on my recliner, and enjoy my 72" cinema! Current Tank Info: 125 reef-mine; 240, 70 TECH reefs+58 FOWLR shared with family (strangely all oceanic tanks!)

02/03/2008, 10:51 PM	#9
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,659	A few things you can do. Cut down the amount of air, you can try putting the airstone on the very bottom of the skimmer, this will increase the pressure and cut it down a little. You can slow down the amount of water entering the skimmer. This will also help. If you can slow down the water you may not have to cut back the air. I would also try changing the drain line. take off the clear hose and point the drain straight down. With it on an angle and submerged it could be causing back pressure in the skimmer. All of this will be until the skimmer breaks in. this can take a couple of weeks in some cases. You need a layer of bacteria,(slime) to coat the skimmer body. When this happens you will see less overflows and more consistant skimming. Last edited by frank2926; 02/03/2008 at 10:59 PM.

02/02/2008, 01:59 PM	#2
Percula9 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Orange County CA Posts: 2,620	The addition of any type of water conditioner will cause over foaming. Can you post a pic of the skimmer? You can drill a drain hole into the cup, then run a drain tube to a large container. This way if it over foams it will have a place to drain to.

02/02/2008, 05:09 PM	#3
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 39	Excellent suggestions Percula... In fact, I've been pondering the drain hole idea. That should help limit my cleaning of the carpet with sea water to, oh, once a week or so I haven't added any conditioners to the water... although it did occur to me that in washing my hands prior to tank maintenance, some unrinsed soap from my hands got in. I have a valve on the air hose, I'm thinking of just turning the air down and keeping a close eye on it when I can be around. I now have this theory that some sand on other solids suspended in the water suppress the foaming, and once those settle and/or clear, the foaming increases. Thus the seeming randomness of the problem. Perhaps too, stopping the skimmer to clean the cup may cause some wierdness in the water contained in the column when the foaming stops. I'll hook the skimmer back up and posts some pics... Thanks again

02/02/2008, 06:18 PM	#4
Percula9 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Orange County CA Posts: 2,620	I also have a air pump driven skimmer for my nano reef. It sits inside a box filter compartment hanging on the tank. It doesn't require a pump to move the water through it. So I never have any overflow problems. Try to keep the water level in your tank constant. If the water is to high it will raise the water level in your skimmer. Is there a control valve on the circulation pump to the skimmer? You might try slowing the flow a little to see if that helps. The drain hole is your best insurance against wet carpet.

02/03/2008, 03:16 PM	#5
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 39	Posted a few pictures of the skimmer that illustrate the problem. I'm experimenting with the air flow now... that seems, so far, to be the answer.

02/03/2008, 07:27 PM	#6
Percula9 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Orange County CA Posts: 2,620	How do you control the water height ? Lower the water height by putting a valve on the return.

02/03/2008, 10:50 PM	#8
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 39	See, what works is a valve on the air. By dialing the air flow back the foam column doesn't rise as high and everything is cool....

02/03/2008, 11:10 PM	#10
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 39	Frank.. thanks for the intelligent answer... it seems to me as well that the bubbler should be sitting on the bottom. More distance means more contact time, and thus more effective fractionation. But, this is the way it came when I bought it, and I can't help but wonder if it is placed there by design. Ever since I started complaining about this here on the board, the skimmer has behaved rather nicely... the worst of the break-in is behind me I do believe...

02/03/2008, 11:14 PM	#11
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,659	sounds like it was just break in problems. Remember if /when you clean the skimmer body it will have to break in again. It usually does not take as long then . good luck