Cold/Temperate Water Reef

reefnewbie54321 · 07/21/2006, 08:25 PM

After seeing Steves amazing cold water reef it really made me want to try one out. I still need to buy a few bags of ice this weekend to see how bad my tank is going to sweat but in the mean time I need to brain storm on stocking ideas. I am mainly interested in anemones and coral right now.

Pacific Condylactis Anemone's,

From my understanding these are temperate water anemones. Any other information at what temperature they are normally found would be appreciated.

Parazoanthus Axinellae,

Considered a form a Zoanthids but also mentioned as colonial anemones. Any information at what temperature these are found at and were they come from would be appreciated.

"Parazoanthus axinellae from the Mediterranean. A beautiful temperate species that grows freely on rocks, unlike most other members of the genus that associate with sponges and other animals that provide a position for them out in strong currents where they can catch plankton." -Julien Sprung

According to Sprungs quote they are filter feeders which may be a problem.

Strawberry Anemones,

"Corynactis californica
Diet: Copepods and invertebrate larvae.
This creature grows in colonies, somewhat like coral, but lacks a protective covering, or exoskeleton. It prefers shaded rocky areas but will also live on wharf pilings from San Diego to British Columbia.

Strawberry anemones grow to one inch in diameter and have potent, club-tipped tentacles. This animal is a favorite in biology labs because the nematocysts (tiny organs that contain a stinger) are easily seen under magnification. These animals are harmless despite the size of the nematocysts.

Reproduction is by fission; the strawberry anemone divides itself into two identical animals. Clones of the same animal have been found covering over a square meter of sea floor." I am assuming they can be fed mysid shrimp.

Tube Anemones,

"Tube Anemones are often found on the muddy bottoms of Puget Sound, and Southern Puget Sound has more than it's fair share of muddy bottoms. These anemones are somewhat unique among Puget Sound anemones in that they create a hard tube that thy can retract into when threatened. Although occasionally encountered throughout Puget Sound, they seem to really flourish in southern Hood's Canal."

Not sure what there diet is but I also see these in warm water reefs so would like to confirm that these are temperate water anemones.

Swimming Anemone,

Scientific Name : Stomphia coccinea
"This is a fairly common anemone that may be spotted in most popular Puget Sound dive sites. This anemone's claim to fame is that it can actually kind of swim by unanchoring itself from the substrate and twisting back and forth. This allows it to escape predators (like certain starfish) and find better feeding grounds when needed. I usually find them in isolation of one another"

As mentioned in its name this is a swimming anemone and could be a problem.

Crimson Anemone,

Scientific Name : Cribrinopsis fernaldi
Not sure about much more other then it can be found in north east pacific.

Giant Green Anemone,

Scientific Name : Anthopleura xanthogrammica
It is my understanding that these are tidal anemones so I am not sure if these could be kept in a non-tidal system.

Beaded Anemone,

Scientific Name : Tealia coriacea
Don't have much info on this ... anything would help

As for corals all I can think of is sun coral if anyone else has some ideas feel free to share.

And last I have found a link to what I believe to be a coldwater tank with some very interesting stuff that I have not seen before. The onlyy problem is the link is in another language which I'm nto even sure of. If anyone can decipher it that would be great.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DX

steveweast · 07/22/2006, 10:27 AM

Well....you're off on an exciting new adventure.....unfortuneatly, we are doing it alone. I shouldn't say alone....just very few of us out there. The vast majority of folks out there think of cold water tanks (temerate really) as dull, colorless, boring, and expensive....of course, we know that they are just misguided. There are some cold water tanks out there....but, they are mostly just coastal, tidal, lobster-like tanks to keep a few hermits. The basic problem is : there are no cold water suppliers ....because there are no cold water tanks.....and there are no cold water tanks.....because there are no cold water suppliers.

The tanks themselves are cheaper and easier to run than their warm water brothers......but, the stock avalability is the real issue. There are a few options out there:

1) if you live on the West coast, collect your own.

2) I'm not sure about the East coast.....I don't know if they have the colorful cold water life that we have out here.

3) There are cold water species that come through the warm water trade....turbo snails red foot snails, wartah anemones, catalina gobies, some seahorses, and some Australian fish crop up on warm water lists all the time

4) Don't rule out your local fish mart. My local Japanese market has live cold water clams, oysters, shrimp, and abalone.

5) There is a cold water supplier (the only one that I'm aware of) that is located in Tasmania and will sell to the general public.... in fact, I was one of their very few hobbiest sales since they ususlly just supply public aquariums. Ordering from them is not like ordering from marine depot.....you'll have to place an order....wait a several weeks until the order ships (usually tagging along with a public aquarium order).....arrange for a broker in LA to get the critters through customs and onto their domestic flight....then pick them up at your local airport. It's only cost effective if you're ordering at least a full box....or better yet....several boxes. Here's their link...

http://www.aquaticbiodiversitygroup.com.au/

Past that....cold water is a great adventure....I've been able to keep things that are nearly impossible to keep in warm water...like oysters, mussels, and crinoids.

reefnewbie54321 · 07/22/2006, 03:04 PM

Thanks for all the info. I am not sure of what could be collected on the east coast but I am planning a spring vacation to california and plan to do some collecting then.

steveweast · 07/24/2006, 05:04 PM

It's obvious by the no responses that we're going down a lonely.....but interesting road. Here's a new goody that I picked up yesterday from Puget Sound.

reefnewbie54321 · 07/24/2006, 05:25 PM

Wow those are nice ... although there have been no responses in this thread I did get a PM about someone who kept Giant Green Anemones in a cold water reef for a few years while it was running. I wasnt sure if I could keep them becuase there tidal but apparently he didnt have any problems. I am kinda glad becuase they were one of the eye catching cold water anemones I found.

Herpervet · 07/24/2006, 08:11 PM

Steve,

Can you post a pic or link to your temperate reef?

Herpervet · 07/24/2006, 08:24 PM

Just fyi: I havn't been to Monterey Bay Aquarium (sp?) and I bet it is way better but the Birch Aquarium at Scripps in San Diego has some really nice cold water displays including a couple with huge colonies of those pink colonial anemonies you guys posted pic's of.

Every time I pass by the live lobster tanks at the Meat market I think to my OCD self: "I wonder if they would sell me that system so I can set up a temperate tank"

Kudo's to you guys. The colors of temperate cnidarians are stunning.

I can still see pic's in my head of Actina aquina from my first marine invert. book I got as a kid.

P.S. a Juvi Garabaldi is a must have imo even if they are a holy terror.

GreshamH · 07/25/2006, 01:58 AM

Being the Girabaldi is our state fish, you won't be doing eny legal collecting of it. What ones enter the trade, do som via Baja, Mexico.

CA F&G is very strict as what you can collect unfortunatly. Anemonies are a grey zone as their not listed in the reg book as something with a quota, but there's no mention of them being OK either.

I've kept cold water stuff myself, and have several friends that have done it over the years. In fact, I have a buddy doing it right now

Nice addition Steve

Herpervet · 07/25/2006, 06:41 AM

I was pretty sure they were illegal to collect but they are available legally in the trade as I have seen them listed.

GreshamH · 07/25/2006, 09:29 AM

They're legal to catch in Baja, Mexico, where they're commonly imported from.

tecoral · 07/25/2006, 03:55 PM

Pretty cool thread and something Im interested in also. I have a friend up here that keeps a cold water 150 stalked with local items. Its basically a tidewater tank but very cool. He has it down now but it is so easy to get up and run. A good chiller is needed to push it down to around 45-50*. Ive seen him keep lots of different things including live King Crab waiting for the pot

and black bass.

I plan on trying something in the future but instead of a chiller I want to try a heat exchange using buried plastic line and a good pump. Something that was deep enough to not freeze in the winter. If I can get a handle on my other projects I would be able to start. Love to see some picts of your setups.

Herpervet · 07/25/2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreshamH
They're legal to catch in Baja, Mexico, where they're commonly imported from.

Just curious on this. Mexico is very strict these days about collecting wildlife (i.e 30 years ago you could get a permit to collect about any reptile you wanted but now it's virtually impossible to get a permit at all)

Would they allow someone to collect fish and carry them across the border? Do you know anything about the regulations on this if a person wanted to do a collecting trip?

tecoral · 07/25/2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Herpervet
Just curious on this. Mexico is very strict these days about collecting wildlife (i.e 30 years ago you could get a permit to collect about any reptile you wanted but now it's virtually impossible to get a permit at all)

Would they allow someone to collect fish and carry them across the border? Do you know anything about the regulations on this if a person wanted to do a collecting trip?

Im pretty sure you would have to go through a wholesaler/retailer that would have to order one for you. I know you cant even come back or go over with a piece of fruit so I would imagine a live fish would be out of the question. Pretty cool fish, big giant damsel. I used to see them alot growing up, we used to snorkle out at Catalina. Not sure what you could keep with it though.

Id be curious what US Customs would say. You might call them and ask. Im sure they would be familiar with Mexican regulation also, especially if you called an office on the boarder like San Diego.

GreshamH · 07/29/2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Herpervet
Just curious on this. Mexico is very strict these days about collecting wildlife (i.e 30 years ago you could get a permit to collect about any reptile you wanted but now it's virtually impossible to get a permit at all)

Would they allow someone to collect fish and carry them across the border? Do you know anything about the regulations on this if a person wanted to do a collecting trip?

Having worked for a importer whom has collected in baja for 25+ years, and knowing all but one permit holder, you asked the right person.

The permit system will brake a normal person, our permit has been down for 3 years. A normal person could not go collect on thier own. It's illegal, and there is no permit for such activities. In order to work, which what a permit holder is doing, you'd have to be a citizen, or be issued a working visa. You have to deal with state, federal in Mexico, and Customs/USF&WS in the states. The best way for you to get em, is via the Los Angeles wholesalers currently. There's 1 permit in Baja Sur in action.

GreshamH · 07/29/2006, 01:16 AM

DP

Chaloupa · 08/07/2006, 03:44 PM

link to Steve Weast's cold water tank please? THANKS!!

Cody Ray · 08/07/2006, 06:48 PM

I've collected from the baja (obviously not with a permit

) for my own aquarium. There are several coral species that can be found including encrusting porities, gorgonia, colonial anemonies, and inverts like sponges.

wds21921 · 08/12/2006, 10:16 PM

Tube Anenomes LOVE brine shrimp. I believe they also like to intake some phyto as well from what I've seen from mine. If there food source is minimal they also will take in small flatworms.

The Pacific Condylactis Anemone is zooanthalea fed (light source) to the best of my knowledge. Mine has been doing fine in 82 f - 86 f temperatures.

Herpervet · 08/13/2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaloupa
link to Steve Weast's cold water tank please? THANKS!!

ditto

mermin · 08/13/2006, 01:35 PM

just so you know here on the east coast we have wicked colorful anemonies around cape cod and such. check into getting a basket star. they are absolutly nuts. We have a cold water tank at mystic aquarium where i work. runs at 45 degrees

JHemdal · 08/14/2006, 10:47 AM

I gave a talk on temperate marines at MACNA last year - I must say that there was very little interest in the topic.

Typical conversation, Aquarist: "Oh - I see you are speaking here, whats your topic?" Me: "Temperate Marine Aquariums". Aquarist: "Anything about mini-reefs?, I just set up a 100 gallon reef" Me: "No, sorry". And then they would just sort of wander away...

I bet there was less than 50 people in the audience.

Jay Hemdal

steveweast · 08/14/2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JHemdal
I gave a talk on temperate marines at MACNA last year - I must say that there was very little interest in the topic.

Typical conversation, Aquarist: "Oh - I see you are speaking here, whats your topic?" Me: "Temperate Marine Aquariums". Aquarist: "Anything about mini-reefs?, I just set up a 100 gallon reef" Me: "No, sorry". And then they would just sort of wander away...

I bet there was less than 50 people in the audience.

Jay Hemdal

That's because most folks are under the misconception that cold water systems are dull, brown, and lifeless....with a lobster tank being the zenith. We cold water keepers know that couldn't be farther from the truth......and that, cold water, is far easier, cheaper, as diverse, and possibly even more colorful than its warm water sps rival. Word is getting out.....but obtaining stock is still a limiting factor unless you're near the coast. But....it's changing.......several folks are setting up a cold tank around here. Most have just not been exposed to the possibilities and opportunities that come with a temperate system.

steveweast · 08/14/2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Herpervet
ditto

I don't have a site for my cold system....but, I will add it to my warm water site when I update it. There are a few threads on this site and others that show a few pics though....you just have to search under "temperate" or "cold water"

steveweast · 08/14/2006, 03:05 PM

Here's a few pics of my system that I have handy...

wds21921 · 08/14/2006, 04:07 PM

Incredible Steve

!!!

07/21/2006, 08:25 PM	#1
reefnewbie54321 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 1,263	Cold/Temperate Water Reef After seeing Steves amazing cold water reef it really made me want to try one out. I still need to buy a few bags of ice this weekend to see how bad my tank is going to sweat but in the mean time I need to brain storm on stocking ideas. I am mainly interested in anemones and coral right now. Pacific Condylactis Anemone's, From my understanding these are temperate water anemones. Any other information at what temperature they are normally found would be appreciated. Parazoanthus Axinellae, Considered a form a Zoanthids but also mentioned as colonial anemones. Any information at what temperature these are found at and were they come from would be appreciated. "Parazoanthus axinellae from the Mediterranean. A beautiful temperate species that grows freely on rocks, unlike most other members of the genus that associate with sponges and other animals that provide a position for them out in strong currents where they can catch plankton." -Julien Sprung According to Sprungs quote they are filter feeders which may be a problem. Strawberry Anemones, "Corynactis californica Diet: Copepods and invertebrate larvae. This creature grows in colonies, somewhat like coral, but lacks a protective covering, or exoskeleton. It prefers shaded rocky areas but will also live on wharf pilings from San Diego to British Columbia. Strawberry anemones grow to one inch in diameter and have potent, club-tipped tentacles. This animal is a favorite in biology labs because the nematocysts (tiny organs that contain a stinger) are easily seen under magnification. These animals are harmless despite the size of the nematocysts. Reproduction is by fission; the strawberry anemone divides itself into two identical animals. Clones of the same animal have been found covering over a square meter of sea floor." I am assuming they can be fed mysid shrimp. Tube Anemones, "Tube Anemones are often found on the muddy bottoms of Puget Sound, and Southern Puget Sound has more than it's fair share of muddy bottoms. These anemones are somewhat unique among Puget Sound anemones in that they create a hard tube that thy can retract into when threatened. Although occasionally encountered throughout Puget Sound, they seem to really flourish in southern Hood's Canal." Not sure what there diet is but I also see these in warm water reefs so would like to confirm that these are temperate water anemones. Swimming Anemone, Scientific Name : Stomphia coccinea "This is a fairly common anemone that may be spotted in most popular Puget Sound dive sites. This anemone's claim to fame is that it can actually kind of swim by unanchoring itself from the substrate and twisting back and forth. This allows it to escape predators (like certain starfish) and find better feeding grounds when needed. I usually find them in isolation of one another" As mentioned in its name this is a swimming anemone and could be a problem. Crimson Anemone, Scientific Name : Cribrinopsis fernaldi Not sure about much more other then it can be found in north east pacific. Giant Green Anemone, Scientific Name : Anthopleura xanthogrammica It is my understanding that these are tidal anemones so I am not sure if these could be kept in a non-tidal system. Beaded Anemone, Scientific Name : Tealia coriacea Don't have much info on this ... anything would help As for corals all I can think of is sun coral if anyone else has some ideas feel free to share. And last I have found a link to what I believe to be a coldwater tank with some very interesting stuff that I have not seen before. The onlyy problem is the link is in another language which I'm nto even sure of. If anyone can decipher it that would be great. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DX

07/25/2006, 01:58 AM	#8
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	Being the Girabaldi is our state fish, you won't be doing eny legal collecting of it. What ones enter the trade, do som via Baja, Mexico. CA F&G is very strict as what you can collect unfortunatly. Anemonies are a grey zone as their not listed in the reg book as something with a quota, but there's no mention of them being OK either. I've kept cold water stuff myself, and have several friends that have done it over the years. In fact, I have a buddy doing it right now Nice addition Steve __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

07/25/2006, 09:29 AM	#10
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	They're legal to catch in Baja, Mexico, where they're commonly imported from. __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

07/29/2006, 01:16 AM	#15
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	DP __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

08/07/2006, 03:44 PM	#16
Chaloupa Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vancouver Island, BC Canada Posts: 412	link to Steve Weast's cold water tank please? THANKS!! __________________ No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted. Sarah Current Tank Info: 65g hexagon reef,120g anemone and LPS, 34g RSM, 150g SPS and zoos, 40g frag/Q tank

07/22/2006, 10:27 AM	#2
steveweast Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Portland,Or Posts: 1,079	Well....you're off on an exciting new adventure.....unfortuneatly, we are doing it alone. I shouldn't say alone....just very few of us out there. The vast majority of folks out there think of cold water tanks (temerate really) as dull, colorless, boring, and expensive....of course, we know that they are just misguided. There are some cold water tanks out there....but, they are mostly just coastal, tidal, lobster-like tanks to keep a few hermits. The basic problem is : there are no cold water suppliers ....because there are no cold water tanks.....and there are no cold water tanks.....because there are no cold water suppliers. The tanks themselves are cheaper and easier to run than their warm water brothers......but, the stock avalability is the real issue. There are a few options out there: 1) if you live on the West coast, collect your own. 2) I'm not sure about the East coast.....I don't know if they have the colorful cold water life that we have out here. 3) There are cold water species that come through the warm water trade....turbo snails red foot snails, wartah anemones, catalina gobies, some seahorses, and some Australian fish crop up on warm water lists all the time 4) Don't rule out your local fish mart. My local Japanese market has live cold water clams, oysters, shrimp, and abalone. 5) There is a cold water supplier (the only one that I'm aware of) that is located in Tasmania and will sell to the general public.... in fact, I was one of their very few hobbiest sales since they ususlly just supply public aquariums. Ordering from them is not like ordering from marine depot.....you'll have to place an order....wait a several weeks until the order ships (usually tagging along with a public aquarium order).....arrange for a broker in LA to get the critters through customs and onto their domestic flight....then pick them up at your local airport. It's only cost effective if you're ordering at least a full box....or better yet....several boxes. Here's their link... http://www.aquaticbiodiversitygroup.com.au/ Past that....cold water is a great adventure....I've been able to keep things that are nearly impossible to keep in warm water...like oysters, mussels, and crinoids.

07/22/2006, 03:04 PM	#3
reefnewbie54321 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 1,263	Thanks for all the info. I am not sure of what could be collected on the east coast but I am planning a spring vacation to california and plan to do some collecting then.

07/24/2006, 05:04 PM	#4
steveweast Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Portland,Or Posts: 1,079	It's obvious by the no responses that we're going down a lonely.....but interesting road. Here's a new goody that I picked up yesterday from Puget Sound.

07/24/2006, 05:25 PM	#5
reefnewbie54321 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 1,263	Wow those are nice ... although there have been no responses in this thread I did get a PM about someone who kept Giant Green Anemones in a cold water reef for a few years while it was running. I wasnt sure if I could keep them becuase there tidal but apparently he didnt have any problems. I am kinda glad becuase they were one of the eye catching cold water anemones I found.

07/24/2006, 08:11 PM	#6
Herpervet Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 675	Steve, Can you post a pic or link to your temperate reef?

07/24/2006, 08:24 PM	#7
Herpervet Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 675	Just fyi: I havn't been to Monterey Bay Aquarium (sp?) and I bet it is way better but the Birch Aquarium at Scripps in San Diego has some really nice cold water displays including a couple with huge colonies of those pink colonial anemonies you guys posted pic's of. Every time I pass by the live lobster tanks at the Meat market I think to my OCD self: "I wonder if they would sell me that system so I can set up a temperate tank" Kudo's to you guys. The colors of temperate cnidarians are stunning. I can still see pic's in my head of Actina aquina from my first marine invert. book I got as a kid. P.S. a Juvi Garabaldi is a must have imo even if they are a holy terror.

07/25/2006, 06:41 AM	#9
Herpervet Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 675	I was pretty sure they were illegal to collect but they are available legally in the trade as I have seen them listed.

07/25/2006, 03:55 PM	#11
tecoral Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Here and there Posts: 113	Pretty cool thread and something Im interested in also. I have a friend up here that keeps a cold water 150 stalked with local items. Its basically a tidewater tank but very cool. He has it down now but it is so easy to get up and run. A good chiller is needed to push it down to around 45-50*. Ive seen him keep lots of different things including live King Crab waiting for the pot and black bass. I plan on trying something in the future but instead of a chiller I want to try a heat exchange using buried plastic line and a good pump. Something that was deep enough to not freeze in the winter. If I can get a handle on my other projects I would be able to start. Love to see some picts of your setups.

08/07/2006, 06:48 PM	#17
Cody Ray Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,101	I've collected from the baja (obviously not with a permit ) for my own aquarium. There are several coral species that can be found including encrusting porities, gorgonia, colonial anemonies, and inverts like sponges. __________________ Limit 1 stupid question per day Current Tank Info: Mr. Aqua 7.5g bowfront

08/12/2006, 10:16 PM	#18
wds21921 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Elkton, MD Posts: 1,442	Tube Anenomes LOVE brine shrimp. I believe they also like to intake some phyto as well from what I've seen from mine. If there food source is minimal they also will take in small flatworms. The Pacific Condylactis Anemone is zooanthalea fed (light source) to the best of my knowledge. Mine has been doing fine in 82 f - 86 f temperatures.

08/13/2006, 01:35 PM	#20
mermin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Willimantic, CT Posts: 204	just so you know here on the east coast we have wicked colorful anemonies around cape cod and such. check into getting a basket star. they are absolutly nuts. We have a cold water tank at mystic aquarium where i work. runs at 45 degrees

08/14/2006, 10:47 AM	#21
JHemdal Moved On Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,971	I gave a talk on temperate marines at MACNA last year - I must say that there was very little interest in the topic. Typical conversation, Aquarist: "Oh - I see you are speaking here, whats your topic?" Me: "Temperate Marine Aquariums". Aquarist: "Anything about mini-reefs?, I just set up a 100 gallon reef" Me: "No, sorry". And then they would just sort of wander away... I bet there was less than 50 people in the audience. Jay Hemdal

08/14/2006, 03:05 PM	#24
steveweast Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Portland,Or Posts: 1,079	Here's a few pics of my system that I have handy...

08/14/2006, 04:07 PM	#25
wds21921 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Elkton, MD Posts: 1,442	Incredible Steve !!!