Side-drilled sump drain

[toeside]

I plan to drill a 10g for a drain to a sump. The tank bottom does not appear to be tempered glass, but I can't be positive. So, I'm considering using a side-drilled approach.

RC moderator "Agu" posted this photo in a discussion on a another topic, and I like what he's done:



This seems simpler in construction than a typical bottom drain with a Durso standpipe. I'm thinking of using a similar design, but maybe with a run of clear vinyl tubing down to the sump instead of PVC pipe. My thought here is to reduce the chance of cracking the tank at the bulkhead when I inevitably bang into the plumbing.

Any thoughts from the RC community about constructing or running a system like this?

Thanks!

[mfinn]

I had several tanks drilled on the back wall of the tank and used a up turned pvc 90 on the inside, with the tee on the outside. The tee is important because you will get a lot of flushing noise.
You can see in the picture the airline coming out of the top of the tee?
I had my tanks drilled about 6" from the top and 6" in from each end.

[MeuserReef]

I have a side-drilled tank, but I use a scaled-down version of a traditional overlow box.

Here is how mine is setup:


One thing that I would do is to get some glass cut to reinforce the areas around where you plan on drilling your tank. Usually, 10 gallon tanks are only built using 3/32" glass which breaks VERY easily. I think the flexible PVC idea will help, but would still not trust the tank glass (alone) to handle the pressures of the bulkhead in a long-term scenario.

Also keep in mind that without a overflow box, the water will continue to drain to the level that you have your overflow placed (especially with the down turned elbow like to one in the picture above)

[stangreef]

i have done this in the past , the only real flaw is that your flow is decreased through tthe pipes compared to an overflow..

[mfinn]

Originally posted by MeuserReef


Also keep in mind that without a overflow box, the water will continue to drain to the level that you have your overflow placed (especially with the down turned elbow like to one in the picture above)

Good point, that's why I liked my version with the upturned pvc 90.

[MeuserReef]

Originally posted by stangreef
i have done this in the past , the only real flaw is that your flow is decreased through tthe pipes compared to an overflow..

Hmmm.... Please elaborate as to why you believe that there would be a decrease in flow? The only sources that I can think that would decrease flow would be a.) Pipe Diameter b.) Gravity c.) number of bends in the plumbing route to sump.

I dont see any of these being different to a standard overflow, except that the external would require a 45 degree fitting to direct the water back under the tank. This would decrease flow such a small amount that it would be hard to even notice the difference!

I dont see the "flaw" in this design.

[mfinn]

Originally posted by stangreef
i have done this in the past , the only real flaw is that your flow is decreased through tthe pipes compared to an overflow..

Makes no sense to me either.

[toeside]

Thanks guys for the input... very helpful information.

Both the "upturned elbow" and the external Durso seem advantageous because:

1) water spills from the surface, which should take scum into the sump with it

2) the bulkhead fitting can be positioned further away from the edge of the tank

3) The water can be maintained at a higher level in the tank (although in the original photo the water level seems OK)

The Durso design calls for the downturned elbow. I would like to better understand the rationale for this feature. On the Durso DIY page he mentions that by being submerged it doesn't suck in surface air. How is this a problem? Is this part of what is needed to "tune" the flow rate via the vent hole as described?

The appeal of the upturned elbow (to me) is that it has no overflow box cluttering the tank and it will be easier to build.

[MeuserReef]

Think of the down-turned elbow as a muffler of sorts. Because theDurso is not a full siphon, there is a mixture of water and air traveling down the pipes to the sump. This mixture is often noisy. With the up-turned elbow, the noise from inside of the drain pipe is allowed to escape, where as the down-turned elbow keeps this noise inside of the pipe. The airline prevents the full siphon effect when using a down-turned elbow.

You will get better surface skimming with an overflow box. I made one that is only 6" x 6" x 2" just to cover the elbow. This gives me 8" of linear overflow, where as a simple up-turned elbow (assuming that its a 1.5" fitting) would only have about 4.7" inches of linear overflow area (1.5" x 3.141......)

[mfinn]

I happen to like the upturned pvc 90 because it took up less space in the tank and as far linear overflow,,, the same amount of water would go down the hole if there was a overflow box or not.
I had 0 problems with noise and I know several people that use this method and haven't heard any complaints from them.

But it all comes down to what you like for your own setup.
Each to his own.

[shyland83]

I tried the upturned elbow and had a film buildup on the surface of my tank because it didn't skim the surface of the water at all. if an overflow box and a downturned elbow is a possibility definitly do it.

I would think twice about clear tubing because it usually gets a lot of algae growth in it. you canbuy black vinyl tubing instead but i prefer pvc. you can and should fas the piped to the stand somehow so bumping into the pipes isn't an problem.

Also don't take the warning about the glass thickness on a 10g tank lightly. it is VERY thin and you must be very careful to not crack it.

[toeside]

The knowledge you guys have is amazing.

I'm definitely reinforcing the tank at the bulkhead... and I'll use opaque flexible PVC. Still not decided on the Durso question...

I'm waiting on the hole saw... I'll post pics when I get it all built.

Thanks again for all the help...

[jasonmartin1313]

I have core drills but on small tanks <30 gallon i prefer a dremmel bit it is more forgiving just my opinion though.

[toeside]

Originally posted by jasonmartin1313
I have core drills but on small tanks <30 gallon i prefer a Dremmel bit it is more forgiving just my opinion though.

Jason... thanks for the photo... yeah, that glass is thin... I'm thinking of using a drill press with oil pressing super easy... or maybe going to the glass shop...

[Reeferon]

i used to have a 10 gallon with the bottom drilled. it had a 1/2" bulkhead

[MeuserReef]

The knowledge you guys have is amazing.

Collective knowledge will always surpass individual knowledge. Thats what makes the forum concept such a great thing.

[Ocean In A Box]

get a diamond saw off ebay (<$10) and go slow with water cooling...

i'll be drilling my 30g cube w/ a 1 3/4" hole to accomodate a 1" bulkhead drain sometime in the next week or two

i'll post pics in my thread (click red house) when i do to share info with everyone

good luck

Matt

p.s. to get surface skimming w/out an internal overflow box consider a couple of methods i've read about (i will pick one or the other myself)
1. large 3-4" floor drain on end of pvc inside your tank...
2. horizontal pvc connected to your pvc inside your tank w/ holes either drilled or cut slotted across the hole thing

search some links for these things here on RC and you will find some recent discussions...esp #2 I think I remember

[Ocean In A Box]

toeside - did you drill yours yet? i am behind in my schedule and did not drill mine yet, but hope to ASAP.

[Roy G. Biv]

I have 5 - 10 gallons drilled through the back. I can tell you that glass is very fragile. I already have hairling fractures in the glass that I repaired with silicone.

[toeside]

Originally posted by Ocean In A Box
toeside - did you drill yours yet? i am behind in my schedule and did not drill mine yet, but hope to ASAP

I'm still waiting on the hole saw bit I got on eBay to arrive from Hong Kong! Slow boat from China I guess

Of course, now I've found a glass shop that will do it (the first "brand name" place was totally lame and wouldn't try it). I just KNOW the day I take my tank there is the day my bit will show up.

Thanks for the floor drain idea. If I can get it dead level, it should provide a longer "interface" to spill surface water. I think I'm going to try that first. Nothing to lose... shoot if I don't like it, I can switch to the Durso easily enough. I just won't glue any PVC fittings until I get something that works.

[Ocean In A Box]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
p.s. to get surface skimming w/out an internal overflow box consider a couple of methods i've read about (i will pick one or the other myself)
1. large 3-4" floor drain on end of pvc inside your tank...
2. horizontal pvc connected to your pvc inside your tank w/ holes either drilled or cut slotted across the hole thing

search some links for these things here on RC and you will find some recent discussions...esp #2 I think I remember
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If helpful, here is a link I was referring to on #2 (horizontal pvc);
Overflow out of horizontal PVC Pipe: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1251168

For #1 the floor drain, I can't find the thread right now but I have some pics from my local (but "deep" into sale/reef) reef store in their backroom and that's exactly what they're using. I'll try to post these pics or the thread I'm thinking about from here on RC if anyone has iterest in reading.

[Ocean In A Box]

Snapped these photos just recently at one of my local reef stores...guy let me in their backroom area so I could look at how they did it. I was a little surprised that they had made their own overflow with a nice large floor drain, drilled bottom with a straight pipe down. This is almost how I'm planning on doing it except I need to drill the back of my tank and put an "L" out to my sump. If I don't use the floor drain, I will likely use the horizontal PVC that I drill or slot. Anyway, here are the pics, enjoy:

[toeside]

Matt - Thanks loads for the photos!

Their drains are different than I imagined. Looks like it works well.

Funny, the day I complained to you about the drill bit was the day it showed up in the mail.

Of course now I can't find the time to get to it

Hopefully later this week...

Thanks again. Reef on...

[heatherdee]

Hey, Im new here.
Why do you need on over-flow box inside?

Im in the process of making some plexi tanks . I was going to drill side holes near the top for overflow. Just a bulkhead and the surface water drains out the bulkhead to the sump below.15 - 20 gallons each tank for rainging fry.
Im thinking of this wrong arent I?

[BeanAnimal]

The overflow box creates a weir that greatly enhances surface skimming and also fixes the water level in the tank.