Eco-Aqualizer (may fama article)

[Fig]

Randy, Has your opinions stayed the same? Could this thing really do what it claims? Sounds way to good IMO.

[simonh]

Here's a link to the article: http://www.ecoaqualizer.com/articles.asp

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, Simon. I haven't read FAMA in a while. I'll look it over and get back to ya.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I can't decide whether to be happily amused, maybe that this was even the April fools issue, or saddened by the fact that such incredible, ridiculous nonsense could get published and foisted on unsuspecting aquarists.

It is, of course, 99% bogus nonsense, with a trivially small amount of truth thrown in. In fact, one of the only things that I didn't question was the part that the "researcher" thought was black magic: that far infrared light might actually pass through a ceramic.

I'm happy to debate this issue with anyone that thinks it does something useful besides warming the water slightly.

In the meantime, don't waste your money.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't mean to make up their minds for them, but I'm sure that our other resident scientists (Habib, Bomber, Boomer, Mr. Quality, Waterkeeper, etc. etc.) can pick up a few nice points that they think best reflect on the usefulness of this device.

Any comments folks?

[simonh]

There are some more links at the bottom of this page http://www.ecoaqualizer.com/faqs.asp which I presume is the scientific 'background' behind their technology.

I guess I'm best not to ask you guys to review my homeopathic ick medicine for aquariums when I release it

[billsreef]

B b but, we need to energize our H20 molecules and activite the NaCl sterilizers in our tanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I guess I'm best not to ask you guys to review my homeopathic ick medicine for aquariums when I release it

Actually, I'm open to anything up to singing to the fish, if you show that it works.

[wizardgus®]

Actually, I'm open to anything up to singing to the fish, if you show that it works

Don't do it! I tried that, the fish were OK, but all my corals bleached!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Don't do it! I tried that, the fish were OK, but all my corals bleached!

You must have sung the wrong song!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anyone going to IMAC can grill Bob Goemans in person about the "article"

http://www.theimac.org/Speakers.htm

[tatuvaaj]

And if you are going, be sure to see this presentation: http://www.theimac.org/sgamble.htm

[hlehmann]

As soon as the article mentioned NASA Technology, my kook meter went to 11.

This product falls in the same category as the magnetic fuel conditioners for your car and those magnetic bracelets sold on late night TV commercials. They're all bogus.

From Bobs ad in Saltcorner.com:
"The ECO- Aqualizer is a tube-shaped device containing a passive magnetic and energy source. As water flows through the tube, the water's hydrogen bonds are manipulated with magnetism and then further manipulated with 'light' energy, thereby resulting in an effluent that contains an increased amount of oxygen."
I guess the word 'light' is in quotes because it's not actually light. It must be some other type of "passive energy source." An effluent that contains an increased amount of Oxygen? And where does this oxygen come from, or does it come from the magnets?

Here are links for more information about these claims.
http://www.sfu.ca/aqua/
http://www.age.psu.edu/extension/fac.../f/F%20143.pdf

The James Randi Educational Foundation ( http://www.randi.org ) has $1,000,000 waiting for anyone that can show in a double-blind test that water has any measurable difference once the magnetic fields have been removed. So far, not one person has been able to show anything.

If Bob Goemans actually does believe that "review" (I hate to call it that, since it's about as unbiased as a TV infomercial), then he's a fool. If not, then he's a charlatan.

[Boomer]

Well yah know Randy, I just got home and pulled the new FAMA out of the bag and say this ad and came here to drop the bomb shell on you about this wonderful device. I figured you would be pulling your hair out and you don't have that much but way more than me. Then I say this funny post. As far as Bob goes he still believes in Santa Clause and anythng he reviews is gets an A, just go read his reviews. These magic toys have been around for years and make about a much sense as me coming over and over your tank and all ions are in perfect balance, after I say the magic words abra-ga-dabra.

can pick up a few nice points that they think best reflect on the usefulness of this device.

OK, I got here before Jerel, so he can't say NO Boom don't say it. So IMHO you can stick this device where the sun doesn't shine...........maybe it will help from staining you shorts, just a thought

[Habib]

That whole thing is funny and very sad at the same time.

From their website:

http://www.ecoaqualizer.com/aboutus.asp

He determined that carbon and water are essential ingredients for life. It also become evident that magnetism is the glue that helps hold life’s ingredients together.

I think he is quite late with the first sentence.

Thanks to the second sentence I know undestand why each time I want to demagnetize anything it disintegrates. Beam me up Scotty.


Tatu,

BTW from the above link supplied to you. One of them appears to hold an ecoaqualizer in his hands by looking at the pics. Can you say which person?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here's an article that I found that claims that you can use ceramics emitting far infrared to convert ammonia and nitrite to nitrate. I have no reason to doubt that. They might work when not emitting, like the ceramic media that many have used in the past, and they might actually help catalyze this reaction , if only by heat.

Water treatment in the aquarium by applying the electro magnetic wave ceramics. Otsuka, Masahiro; Imanishi, Tadao. Yashima Aquarium, Japan. Mizu Shori Gijutsu (2002), 43(4), 181-184.

Abstract

A column of ceramics, radiating far IR of 4-14 mm, was placed in between a conventional sand filter and a fish tank in water circulation system in an aquarium. The concn. of NH3- and NO2-N decreased, by oxidn. to NO3-N, more rapidly than that in the system without the ceramic column. The concn. of NO3-N, after 58-days expt., decreased to approx. half of the system without the ceramic column. The aquarium water can be used by circulated for a long period, by treatment with electromagnetic ceramics.

[Habib]

Here's an article that I found that claims that you can use ceramics emitting far infrared to convert ammonia and nitrite to nitrate.

There are at least two different things with the Ecoaqualizer.

First there is the method/technolgy and secondly there is the explanation.

Many of the explanations they give are IMO quite weird. If theire product works then IMO there must be a different explanation for it.



From the above abstract that you gave it seems that they did not do a blank with the ceramic material without having it emmit the IR radiation. It could just have been a good substrate for the bactreria with some nice adsorbtion capacity for some nutrients.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

First there is the method/technolgy and secondly there is the explanation.

I agree.


From the above abstract that you gave it seems that they did not do a blank with the ceramic material without having it emmit the IR radiation. It could just have been a good substrate for the bactreria with some nice adsorbtion capacity for some nutrients.

I agree with that too. I did not read the Japanese original, but it sounds like there was no "non emitting" control.

For that matter, I'm not sure that one can ever stop these things from emitting when they are at any reasonable temperature, just as you cannot stop other things from emitting in other parts of the IR spectrum.

The control would have to be a "simliar" ceramic with different emission properties.

[Boomer]

One of them appears to hold an ecoaqualizer in his hands by looking at the pics. Can you say which person?

[Trickman2]

None of you have tried one... so how do you know they don't work. I got two on my tanks one on a 80 gallon and one on a 55 gallon and the fish are better looking and more lively than they have ever been. Honestly don't knock it until you try one.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

None of you have tried one... so how do you know they don't work.

Well, because the way that they are described they cannot work based on my understanding of science. If I told you that I can keep my reef aquaria in alcohol mixed with salt rather than water mixed with salt, would you need to test it yourself to believe that I was wrong?

They may work in some fashion other than as described by the people selling them, and they may not work at all. But they don't work by the mechanisms described.

That said, there are millions, if not billions of people that use products that don't really work, but for whatever reasons they believe them to work. Hope? Coincidence? True placebo effect? Who knows.

That's why approving pharmaceuticals in the US requires testing on huge numbers of patients (often many thousands). The effect on one or ten or 500 people is often not enough to demonstrate whether something works or not.

Still, you can run a nice experiment yourself. Now that things look good, change nothing except remove that product for a few weeks and see if things decline. Then if they do, add it back. take photos or otherwise record exactly what you mean by fish look better and more lively. Keep shifting back and forth a half dozen times. Your experience would be much more convincing if you went back and forth many times and saw the same effect every time.

[Trickman2]

I understand your point but how good would that be on my fishes health. I am not into stressing my fish out. All I can say is get one and experiment with it. Salt water is a complex mix and I am sure their are things we don't know or why they work but they do. I was edgy at first but after trying one. I changed my mind. Sometimes you just have to think out of the box. A good example is airplanes aren't really suppose to be able to fly. at least according to math but they do.

[Boomer]

A good example is airplanes aren't really suppose to be able to fly. at least according to math but they do



If you believe that nonsense then I can see why you use this product

All I can say is get one and experiment with it.

. Salt water is a complex mix

So is the earth and some people still think its flat

Maybe you should go buy a Q-Ray Braclet

You may want to go to the RAG Forum, where Alf, the owner and ruler of the RAG Forum has the unit, which was given to him for testing by by the owner of Eco. Here are some short results;



[b]Update:

Start of test. Kit used salifert
ammo. O
PH 8.3
alk 9.5
ca. 425ppm
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate undetectable.
Ok well I installed the unit On my 2 year old 125gal reef system. After 20 days of test I have ran into a few observations. I have had 2 unexplained Deaths in the tank. First death in this tank for established critters in over a year. 1 fish [but this fish was only in my tank 3 months]. No signs of infection, was eatting well, disappered over night, and I never found the body[ which is not all that unusual in my tank] so that i could inspect it for problems. But what dissturbs me the most is I lost My 2 year old clam that was resideing in this tank. No signs of problems just up and died. Some of My LPS were not looking well either. Polyp extention was not at it's best.
So I ran some test. Ph staying at around 8.4, Ammo Zero, Nitrite undetectable, Nitrate undetectable. So this was not the problem. But My Alk had seem to fall over this 20 day period as well as CA. Alk was at 6DKH and CA was at 300ppm. First time in a long time these had fallen out of balance.

So I unhooked the gadget. I have a done a few water changes to bring the system back into balance. Once I have stabelized the system I am going to try again to see if the device is the cause of the problem.

At this point I want to be sure that the device is the root before blamming it. But at this point I am pointing my finger at it as this system has always ran stable up to this Time.

Also I had not seen any increase in skimmate that it claims to do. water clairity did seem to improve a little but they say it takes three full weeks before you start to see any change. So i did not quite make it to that point, but close.

All other fish are doing well, Clam that is 1.5 years old in this tank is also doing well. After the water changes and the device being offline three days polyp extention has returned.
test I ran this weekend:
PH 8.3
Ammo 0.0
Nitraite 0.0
Nitrate undetectable
Alk 9.5
CA 375
I should have the Ca back to levels by the end of this week. SO i hope to go back online this weekend and will see if the problem returns.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Boomer
OK, I got here before Jerel, so he can't say NO Boom don't say it. So IMHO you can stick this device where the sun doesn't shine...........maybe it will help from staining you shorts, just a thought

Just a minute, let me take the magnets out of my shoes, the wrist bans off (might as well leave the berets in my hair) - damn! I don't feel sexy anymore..........

STOP BOOM - DON'T SAY IT!

[Habib]

Hmmm, So after all it seems to work quite well! :

I never found the body