600gal (96x48x30)

[asnatlas]

I have been planning to build a large tank for awhile... I think I have everything picked out and wanted to post on here to get some feedback...

I would like ALL feedback, if you think it will work or not, then tell me... I want a system that will last me, not one that I will have an issue keeping something and then I would need to switch things out at a later date...

I plan on keeping mostly Softies, LPS, and Clams. Down the road I would maybe like to keep some (not very many) SPS...

This tank will have an external overflow centered on the back with 2x 2in drains with 2 return lines... This will be up against a wall in the basement on a custom built 2x4 stand that will be viewable from 3 sides...

____________________________________________________

TANK
500gal (92x48x28) Starphire (still working with Will at AO on this)...

I am going to try to use 2x 150gal Poly Rubbermaid tubs for a sump/ref...

PUMPS
Sequence Dart (160w)

I picked this pump for two reasons.

1) It gets good flow for the price / watts

2) I have been reading that you don't really need much over 3-5x turnover through your sump...

FLOW
I was going to start with a set of Tunze Streams 6100's (45w) and 6200's (62w) (4 in total) on a 7095 Multicontroller held in place on the back with Magnetics...

LIGHTING
This is where I have not really made up my mind as I am looking at 3 different setups...

On all 3 setups I am going to go with Lumenarc III Reflectors, along with IceCap 46.5in (110w) VHO actinics running from the front to back on each side of the Lumenarc's...

1) 4x 400w (Hamilton 14k) SE on 2x Blue Wave 7 - Dual HQI 400watt Remote Ballasts (1600w total)

2) 3x 400w (Hamilton 14k) SE on a Blue Wave 7 - Dual HQI 430watt Remote Ballast with a Blue Wave 3 HQI 430watt Remote Ballast... (1200w total)

3) 4x 250w (Hamilton 14k) SE on 2x Blue Wave 7 - Dual HQI 400watt Remote Ballasts... (1000w total)

As I stated above I would like to keep Softies, LPS and Clams, but would like to have my system to be able to handle some SPS without any changes (upgrades)...

With the 3 lighting configs above I would like to be cost effective as well as get what I need the first time, Sure I can just get 4x 400w and be done, but if I can get what I need with 3x 400's I would like to go down that road. If I don't even need 400s then I would like to go with 250s as it was save on the elec bills some...

REACTORS
I already have a GEO CA Reactor and Kalk Reactor on my 92gal that I got over sized for my future large tank...

I will be going with a GEO Reactor for Phosban and Carbon...

SKIMMER
I am working with GEO on this, but looking at a custom needle wheel...

CONTROLLERS
Neptune AquaController (Still looking into these)

Medusa 3-Digit Precision Dual Stage Temp Controller

HEATER
Dual 500w Heaters

CHILLER
I am still looking into these, I am hoping I will not need to use one very much as this setup will be in the basement and I will be using fans to cool the water...

TOP-OFF PUMP
Spectrapure LiterMeter III with Water Exchange Module that is on my 92gal that I will be moving over...

OZONIZER
AquaZone Deluxe 250 that is on my 92gal that I will be moving over...

UV STERILIZER
This debating on if I need one and if I do, which one would be good...

REVERSE OSMOSIS UNIT
AquaFX (Mako) 5-Stage Reverse Osmosis that I use for my 92gal that I will be moving over....

____________________________________________________

Please let me know if I have missed or over looked anything, if you don't agree with something I have listed please post a reply and state why and recommend something that would work (or what you would do)...


Shawn

[pondfrog]

Shawn,
Beginning to look good.
I would make the following suggestions:
1. flow use the 6200's and 2 waveboxes
2. lighting- go 400W plan on 4 and maybe only use three for a while, then when you want sps you can add the fourth.
The 250's would be plenty for your lps and softies, but if you reallly do want sps you will eventually want 400s.

Just a few thoughts.
Steve

[Kent E]

I've heard from many that they think 400s are wasted energy. Haven't run them myself. I run 250s

[imbuggin]

depending on how many "sps" you want. I think you are overdoing the lighting. That would be great for sps. Without them all you are addinf is heat and electricty. I would use a few DE 250's and vho's or t-5's with the halides on for short peoriods on time.

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by pondfrog
Shawn,
Beginning to look good.
I would make the following suggestions:
1. flow use the 6200's and 2 waveboxes
2. lighting- go 400W plan on 4 and maybe only use three for a while, then when you want sps you can add the fourth.
The 250's would be plenty for your lps and softies, but if you reallly do want sps you will eventually want 400s.

Just a few thoughts.
Steve

I was thinking about using waveboxes but when I posted in the "Tunze USA Forum", Roger (rvitko) stated that on a tank this size I might be able to get up to 3" waves and I would need clearance for that. That is one thing I wanted to talk with Will about and see if he would be able to make the sides like 30" but have the overflow set to a 28" high tank so that I have 2" for waves... This is still in the air...

I would really like to stick with 4x 250s if I can as they would run cooler and not be over kill...

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by Kent E
I've heard from many that they think 400s are wasted energy. Haven't run them myself. I run 250s

This is what I want to avoid... So your saying on a tank that is 28" deep with 4x 250s I would be able to keep SPS with no problems ?? I am sure I would need to place them midway or higher in the tank, which is fine, how about clams on the sand bed ??

Shawn

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by imbuggin
depending on how many "sps" you want. I think you are overdoing the lighting. That would be great for sps. Without them all you are addinf is heat and electricty. I would use a few DE 250's and vho's or t-5's with the halides on for short peoriods on time.

I agree that 4x 250s would be more then enough for Softies and LPS and I just wanted to make sure that they would be enough for SPS and clams... If I had to guess I would say my ratio would be like 90% LPS to <10% SPS... I will prob want more clams then SPS...

I have posted about an HQI setup on this size of a tank and was told that for a tank this size HQIs don't work good as they can only really get a 2'x2' spread, and if I wanted to go with HQIs I would have to run two rows of three at least... and if I did that with even 250s, I am looking at 1500w and alot exp that is not really needed. As I would need twice as much of everything, ballasts, reflectors, bulbs, and everything. Its not the fact that I would need to run 6 fixtures but I would need to shell out almost 400.00 just in bulbs every 8 - 12 months... where if I went with 250s in 3 Lumenarc's I can get twice the use out of 6 bulbs...

I plan on using VHOs and running them like 3hrs in the morning then having them go off and have the HM 14k's come on for like 6 hrs and then those go off and back to VHOs for like 3 hrs for a dusk to dawn effect...

Shawn

[asnatlas]

While I was posting the last reply's I was thinking I could have the best of both worlds and have 250s along with 400s, I would have the 250s on the ends and the 2x 400s in the middle for a total of 4 fixtures, and any of the Clams / SPS I would place into the tank I could have them near the middle the tank and have the lower light corals on the ends...

Does that sound good ?? Does anyone see an issue with running a lighting config as I have just listed above ?? I would like it to look good as a whole, so please let me know if you have tried this in the past and if it has looked good/bad...

Shawn

[Breaker4show]

thats exactly what i was about to advice you. i think 2-250's on the outside and 2-400's on the inside will be a good mix and will let you keep basically any corals in the middle of the tank! all else looks good to me!

Nick

[Kent E]

I keep only sps. Other than diffusion I don't think too much energy is absorbed in 28". If you look at tank of the months several years ago many of them are from the Rochester area (which is where I am). Hardly anyone uses 400s. infact they cant sell them. SPS will grow in a tank that deep with 175s.

[mark97r6]

My tank is 96" x 28" x 28" I run 4 x 250w 10k halides and i have no trouble growing SPS corals. Although i do place them quite high they always show superb colour and have good growth. I also sway towards the LPS and am able to place them anywhere and have softies on the sand (G/F's favourites), my clams do fine on the sand bed but spread their mantle quite wide so i place them a little higher! Makes them look a little happier.

I have though been tempted alot latley by trying something a little different for me! i have never had any plate or open brain corals, but so far i darnt put these on the sand of my tank under 250's so havent tried them! I was considering swopping out 2 of the 250's for 400's just like you where suggesting, but i am happy with the 250's and cant really afford to run 400's! My comprimise on the corals i suppose!

HTH and good luck with the proposed tank.
Mark

[imbuggin]

Originally posted by asnatlas
I agree that 4x 250s would be more then enough for Softies and LPS and I just wanted to make sure that they would be enough for SPS and clams... If I had to guess I would say my ratio would be like 90% LPS to <10% SPS... I will prob want more clams then SPS...

I have posted about an HQI setup on this size of a tank and was told that for a tank this size HQIs don't work good as they can only really get a 2'x2' spread, and if I wanted to go with HQIs I would have to run two rows of three at least... and if I did that with even 250s, I am looking at 1500w and alot exp that is not really needed. As I would need twice as much of everything, ballasts, reflectors, bulbs, and everything. Its not the fact that I would need to run 6 fixtures but I would need to shell out almost 400.00 just in bulbs every 8 - 12 months... where if I went with 250s in 3 Lumenarc's I can get twice the use out of 6 bulbs...

I plan on using VHOs and running them like 3hrs in the morning then having them go off and have the HM 14k's come on for like 6 hrs and then those go off and back to VHOs for like 3 hrs for a dusk to dawn effect...

Shawn

depends on the felectors you use. I had custom made stainless steel housings made that spread the light great ( can get you info on the guy who made them if you like). My 300 gallon is 96x24x30 I have 4 400watt hqi bulbs. There is not a dark spot. Even when half my lights are on the tank is well lit. I did it for sps mostly. I would use t-5 or vho's as you main source of light. Than add a few hallides (DE 250's i recomend) to come on mid day. You would be in good shape.

i can easily keep clams and you could with 250's also. I use to have 250's. The 400 watt hqi's are similar to the DE 250's. If I did it again, I think I would use de 250's

also forget bulb prices think of the electric. Mine (not only the tank) is $500 a month 1/2 is about the tank

[Kent E]

This sounds like its going to be an awesome tank, and can't wait untill pictures start coming along.

I'm buggin-Your signature is true and I would like the info on the reflectors.

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by Kent E
I keep only sps. Other than diffusion I don't think too much energy is absorbed in 28". If you look at tank of the months several years ago many of them are from the Rochester area (which is where I am). Hardly anyone uses 400s. infact they cant sell them. SPS will grow in a tank that deep with 175s.

Kent E, Thank you for the info... I would like to get away with 4x 250s if I can... Still debating on the 2x 250s and 2 400s...

Shawn

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by mark97r6
My tank is 96" x 28" x 28" I run 4 x 250w 10k halides and i have no trouble growing SPS corals. Although i do place them quite high they always show superb colour and have good growth. I also sway towards the LPS and am able to place them anywhere and have softies on the sand (G/F's favourites), my clams do fine on the sand bed but spread their mantle quite wide so i place them a little higher! Makes them look a little happier.

I have though been tempted alot latley by trying something a little different for me! i have never had any plate or open brain corals, but so far i darnt put these on the sand of my tank under 250's so havent tried them! I was considering swopping out 2 of the 250's for 400's just like you where suggesting, but i am happy with the 250's and cant really afford to run 400's! My comprimise on the corals i suppose!

HTH and good luck with the proposed tank.
Mark

mark97r6, Thank you for your input... As I go along with this thread I will keep you all posted on what I do and I will let you know if I do the 2x 250s and 2x 400s...

Shawn

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by imbuggin
depends on the felectors you use. I had custom made stainless steel housings made that spread the light great ( can get you info on the guy who made them if you like). My 300 gallon is 96x24x30 I have 4 400watt hqi bulbs. There is not a dark spot. Even when half my lights are on the tank is well lit. I did it for sps mostly. I would use t-5 or vho's as you main source of light. Than add a few hallides (DE 250's i recomend) to come on mid day. You would be in good shape.

i can easily keep clams and you could with 250's also. I use to have 250's. The 400 watt hqi's are similar to the DE 250's. If I did it again, I think I would use de 250's

also forget bulb prices think of the electric. Mine (not only the tank) is $500 a month 1/2 is about the tank

I was also tossing this idea around... I have heard that the new Lumenarc's have a lip to hold glass, So I was thinking about getting my hands on some new L3's and trying to convert them over to HQIs... I was talking to a club member and he had the same idea, so maybe I will get with him and we should be able to figure something out

I would like more info about your reflectors if you could... Can you post a pic or 2 ??

Trust me I am looking at the full picture, electric down to the last watt... I am not running any closed loops and only using a Dart as my return pump, If I figured everything up right I am looking about 80.00 to 90.00 a month to run this tank (in the summer) as it will be cheaper in the winter because with 700 KHW with AEP they drop the rate down to like .03 from .08... I figured for less then 100.00 a month in the summer for a tank this size that is not bad at all...

Shawn

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by Kent E
This sounds like its going to be an awesome tank, and can't wait untill pictures start coming along.

I'm buggin-Your signature is true and I would like the info on the reflectors.

I can't wait... I am getting very excited, I have been working alot lately, but I guess all the extra overtime will only help in this "little" project LOL... Once I start to get things prep'ed I will start taking pics and posting my progress... I am ordering the things I need here and there to get it all here and ready, I still need to talk to Will (AO) more.. But I will have to wait about 8 - 10wks for the tank to build and shipped But from everyone I have talked to who have dealt with Will they all have said its worth the wait... I think about 4 or 5 (not including me) club members have gotten a tank from Will sometime in the recent past, Can't wait to get mine...

Shawn

[AquariumObsessed]

Hey Shawn,

Sounds awesome! Look forward to hearing from you.

[imbuggin]

Those who wanted info on my light fixtures, I have asked starpolyp to join in the thread since he made them for me.

[mwood]

OK, got some questions and comments. I love these dimentions. So close to what I have, but a touch taller. You can see in my gallery if you are curious. Tank, why not go the extra 4 inches and have a 4*8 footprint? Sump, get rubbermaid stocktanks if you have access. They are sooo solid, but replumb the drain plug. Drains, 2*2" drains might be tight for 3000 gph. May plumb a third just for fun / to be safe. Flow, I'd drill a few holes and put bulkheads with ball valves on the back in case you decide you want a closed loop later. Easier put 3 or 4 1 1/2 inch holes in now than after setup. Light, I have 4 lights over my tank, 2 250's and 2 400's alternated, 400 \ 250 \ 400 \ 250. The issue with 250's only on this tank is the 48" front to back. You may find that the standard 10-12" off the water won't get the front to back soo well and need to raise the lights higher, that is when you will need at least 2 400's. If you are curious I have 400w Iwasaki's and 250w xm 20k's. Chiller, I'm not sure of your plans for a canopy, but if you go pendants rather than a canopy and have the tank in the basement, you may not need a chiller. I don't have a chiller I've had my heater run in the day.

Just my opinions, Marcus

[mwood]

PS, with 48" front to back and only 28" tall, your rock will be close to the top tward the back of the tank. You may want to consider how this will work with having 4 pumps hanging off the back wall.

[asnatlas]

Originally posted by mwood
OK, got some questions and comments. I love these dimentions. So close to what I have, but a touch taller. You can see in my gallery if you are curious. Tank, why not go the extra 4 inches and have a 4*8 footprint? Sump, get rubbermaid stocktanks if you have access. They are sooo solid, but replumb the drain plug. Drains, 2*2" drains might be tight for 3000 gph. May plumb a third just for fun / to be safe. Flow, I'd drill a few holes and put bulkheads with ball valves on the back in case you decide you want a closed loop later. Easier put 3 or 4 1 1/2 inch holes in now than after setup. Light, I have 4 lights over my tank, 2 250's and 2 400's alternated, 400 \ 250 \ 400 \ 250. The issue with 250's only on this tank is the 48" front to back. You may find that the standard 10-12" off the water won't get the front to back soo well and need to raise the lights higher, that is when you will need at least 2 400's. If you are curious I have 400w Iwasaki's and 250w xm 20k's. Chiller, I'm not sure of your plans for a canopy, but if you go pendants rather than a canopy and have the tank in the basement, you may not need a chiller. I don't have a chiller I've had my heater run in the day.

Just my opinions, Marcus

Well I think I am going to go 96", I was going to place it on one wall that was only 92", But I am going to place it on a diff wall in the same room. I am even thinking about making it 30" high as well...

As for the sump / ref I already have 2x 150gal rubbermaid stock tanks...

I personally don't like CLs... That is why I am going with the Tunze's...

I plan on having a canopy, but I am going to have a large vent fan sucking the air from the canopy and sending it eather into the room behind the tank if not even outside... I was thinking about just sending it into the room behind the tank because I will be having a fan pulling the air out of that room to the outside... The chiller I am going to try to get by without, I will run the setup for a while with out any fish / coral and watch it to see how the water temp acts...

Shawn

[mwood]

There's a 700 gallon 96*48*36" tank in the book Ultimate Marine Aquariums called Perfectionist in Action. It hase 2 ampmaster 3000's, 6 Tunze 2002's, and 2 ATK 6560's. It also has 4 400w 14k's and 4 250w 14k metal halides. This thing is a beast. You could do worse then end up with a tank like that.

PS, got a bud with a wavebox. It is wild.

[starpolyp]

hello Shawn, imbuggin, everyone-

I installed and maintain an aquarium very similiar in size to what you are planning. 96x30x40. It is filled with a mixed bag of corals. SPS, softies, clams, etc. I has two built in overflow boxes, each overflow has two 2" drains. Main pump is a te-7md I believe.
An ETS skimmer fed by a tec-5.5 pump. 2 tunze wavemakers.

I made for this tank, an enclosed aluminum lighting system that is anodized grey. It holds six 400 watt halides. The enclosures have tempered safety glass lens' to contain the extreme amount of heat, and duct work to exhaust the heat out of the building. The safety glass is essential when hung over acrylic aquariums so that heat is not transferred to the acrylic.

This is a similiar system to what I fabricated for imbuggin. Both are hung over 96" aquariums. imbuggin currently has stainless steel enclosures, but soon will receive his aluminum versions. I donnot suggest using stainless for a couple reasons, mainly because the stainless is much heavier than the aluminum, and also because the brushed stainless steel will still discolor and corrode from the salt and other elements in sea water. Also, aluminum will stay a bit cooler to the touch.

I would personally use 400watt halides over such a deep aquarium, especially if you plan on keeping any clams. The aquarium described above has had a couple clams for many years. They are getting quite big now, but they have really started to grow more quickly and with beautiful color since putting them under the 400w halides. They were under 250w halides before in the same size tank, they lived but they did not grow nearly as fast.

pictures of the described aquarium and lighting enclosures here>http://homepage.mac.com/starpolyp/PhotoAlbum6.html

To avoid a long and borring post i will stop there, but if you have any questions regarding the set-up, filtration, or the lighting fixtures, feel free to ask.

[mwood]

Originally posted by starpolyp
... The safety glass is essential when hung over acrylic aquariums so that heat is not transferred to the acrylic. ...

Going to hijack the thread for a second, hope it's ok. I have halides over an acrylic tank, and there is a place or two where the acrylic gets warm, but I wouldn't call it anymore than warm. They are 12-13 inches off the acrylic, not the water. Is safety glass always essential, or is it based on how hot the acrylic gets?