Acro FW's I got 'em, you treat 'em.

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 10:04 AM

Hey Gang,

Sure as snot, I have acro FW's on at least 4 small colonies.
Two of the colonies have egg bunches and 2 don't (I have no idea how that is possible).

So here is the deal...I have researched all the possible fixes and none seem to work that well.
Soooo...I am going to let the gallery devise four treatments and I will try each one.
Think of it as a way to either eliminate bad ideas and begin zeroing in on good ideas.

The treatment will not be done tank wide but in a QT tank.

So, what should the first treatment be?

Sean

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 10:52 AM

Ok, no responses eh.

Well I am going to Petsmart to get a bottle of this and give it a try.

senorpyro · 10/14/2005, 10:53 AM

the only way i've found to get rid of them is removing the effected colonies/frags from the tank, and manually removing the flatworms in another container...

high direct, or turbulent current is the only way i've been able to get them off. moving the corals to a small container, and using a turkey baster to shoot violent streams of water at the corals usually causes them to fly off. after basterizing every nook and cranny a few times, i vigorously shake, twist and plunge the coral in the container of water for a minute or two to get any remaining flatworms off... this'll have to be repeated every week or so, while also manually scraping off any and all eggs found - one 'treatment' is never enough. for me and atleast one other local reefer, it's been an ongoing battle, but one that with time we're definintely making progress with.

make sure you do this in a separate container though, since if you do this in your main tank, the flatworms will fly off, only to land on another coral.

generally speaking, if you've seen a few of em, count on there being another 3-4x as many hiding out that you haven't seen. very carefuly inspect all milli's in your tank, as in my experience, they seem to prefer milli and milli-esque corals.

sonofgaladriel · 10/14/2005, 12:27 PM

Flatworm Exit worked for me.
A fellow reefer swears by her mandarin, another by his banana wrasse, and another by his Potter's leopard wrasse. All three fish wiped out an infestation and keep the tank free of them.

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sonofgaladriel
Flatworm Exit worked for me.

Are you talking about Acro Flatworms or just regular flatworms?

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 12:41 PM

Anyway, since none of you cowboys (and girls

) have 'volunteered' some ways for me to go Dr. Frankenstein on the corals here are some pics of my first test.

I got the medication at Petsmart and picked up a 2.5 gallon nano there as well.
My QT tanks are a 20 long and 29 gallon but that seemed like a waste for a single coral.

Here is the tank:

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 12:44 PM

Here is the first patient.
An A. valida that was looking good before.
Here is a before and after pic.

Before:

A pic of it a mere 10 minutes ago.

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 12:49 PM

The recommended dosage of this medication is 1 drop per 10 gallons of water.
I am dosing 2 drops in approx 2 gallons of water.
In the tank I have placed the coral, a powerhead and a temp probe.

I plan an hour long dip then a good inspection.
If I don't see any dead flatworms I will leave it in there for up to 3 hours.
If there are still no dead flatworms, I will rinse the coral off and try again at a higher dosage.
If that doesn't work...I will find another med.

Here is the setup.

Wish me luck.

Jamesurq · 10/14/2005, 12:54 PM

Good luck....

Do you have any closeups of these guys - I might have the solution for you...

Maybe not though..

But in test #2 - try a 6X FWE treatment for at least an hour...

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamesurq
Do you have any closeups of these guys - I might have the solution for you...

Sadly no.
My digi cam is just one step above that bird on The Flintstones that carved out their pictures.

They are VERY hard to see even though they are not small
A trick I just learned is that if you take the Acro out of the tank and wait a few minutes, the corals skin will air dry...but the FW's will remain moist.
You will see these little moist spots easily, those are the FW's.

I am very curious to as what the Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species is of this critter, to see how closely related it is to other pests that we DO have a KNOWN solution to.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamesurq
But in test #2 - try a 6X FWE treatment for at least an hour...

I will try this next.

Thanks,
Sean

*I fixed the 'bolding'.

MiddletonMark · 10/14/2005, 01:00 PM

Good luck!

Jamesurq · 10/14/2005, 01:07 PM

From another thread.....

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamesurq
woah- Ok...

I never heard of these things but the following may or may not be of interest:

I've been battling regular flatworms (planaria) for a LONG time in my tank - I went through 5 treatments and finally took the extreme measure in my hands and went with a 6X dosage... yep... 6X.

Well last night I did the deed and an interesting thing happened. on an acro in my tank that wasn't extending polyps and was being bothered by my foxface, 1 hour into the 6X treatment, hundreds of yellowish orange tinted dots were coming off that acro surrounded by a trail of slime from the coral.

Within 2 hours, the coral started showing signs of PE and this morning - for the first time in weeks it had FPE..

Does anyone have a picture of these little guys to confirm this?

I hope for your sake that what happened in my tank by accident turns out to be the cure that you're searching for.

Mantis · 10/14/2005, 01:12 PM

Somebody who has these flatworms needs to try to talk their vet. into giving them the powdered form of Levamisole hydrochloride.

I would do it, but I got rid of the acro. flatworms already.

MiddletonMark · 10/14/2005, 01:13 PM

Sure those aren't Red Bugs, James?

Never seen Acro FW [yet] ... but the little dots, extreme changes in PE sound familiar.

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 01:22 PM

Acro flatworms are clear in color.
That is one of things that makes them so darned hard to see on the corals skin.

***Update***
After 1 hour treatment I did not notice any dead flatworms on the bottom of the tank even after blowing them with a powerhead (Zoomed).
I did notice that the egg bunches are still there and intact.
I didn't expect them to dissolve or anything, just reporting all the info.

I have added another 2 drops of the medication to the water and will extend this out to a 2 hour test.

Sean

Ereefic · 10/14/2005, 01:39 PM

I recently discovered these little buggers on about 5 acro's last week. The whole center area (probably 1/3) of one coral was totally ate up. I hit it with the turkey baster in the tank and a couple of flatworms flew off. I pulled that coral out and put it in a bucket with about 1/2 gal. of tank water. Hit it with the turkey baster again and had several more come off. I sucked them out and put them in a small glass with some water and dropped in a couple of drops of Iodine and within minutes they were no longer moving around.

I put a capful of Seachem Reef Dip in the original bucket with the coral still in it and let it sit between 5 and 10 minutes and basted it again and nothing more came off.

I repeated this process with the other acros, small frags. All corals are back in the tank and i've pulled them all out 2 more times since and checked them and I haven't seen anymore come off.

I also have not seen any egg sacks, which are supposedly orangish in nature.

I also added a six line wrasse and i've seen him pecking at the affected corals, but can't say for sure if it is eating flatworms. All corals are resting comfortably and are expected to fully recover.

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 01:47 PM

Ereefic,
I am by no means an expert but have read a LOT of threads and the basic consenus is that if the FW's are there then their eggs are their.
They are rally small and almost look like a patch of the corals flesh.
Get a magnifying glass and examine the areas of the coral where the flesh is gone.
Here are some pics of egg sacsthat I just found on another site.
http://www.mspreef.com/

They are a bunch of individual eggs bunched together.
A lot of little balls.

Jamesurg, check out this site for some FW pics.

Sean

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 01:49 PM

***update on test***
More of an observation actually,

I did notice the coral slime a bit which may have been caused by either the additional medication or being blasted by a powerhead.
But, I have blasted corals before with powerheads in my tank and not had any sliming problems.
I hope the medication isn't toxic at these high concentrations.

***EDIT***
I believe I know what caused the sliming.
The powerhead has managed to get a little venturi action going filing the tank with micro bubbles every few minutes.
I just noticed it.

Jamesurq · 10/14/2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
Sure those aren't Red Bugs, James?

Never seen Acro FW [yet] ... but the little dots, extreme changes in PE sound familiar.

Would FWE kill off redbugs??

Jamesurq · 10/14/2005, 02:02 PM

Couldn't get that site to work Sean.

Ereefic · 10/14/2005, 02:04 PM

Yeah, i've seen those pics too Sean. I did check the corals with a magnifying glass and saw nothing like that. It was after blasting them good with the turkey baster, so maybe they were blown off if they were there? I don't know. Just going to keep checking them and see how it goes.

AlgaeMan · 10/14/2005, 02:06 PM

I killed a bunch last night with FW exit. I know they were acro fw's since I've been dealing with them for almost a year. Its possible that at a particular stage of a fw they are vulnerable to this.

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamesurq
Couldn't get that site to work Sean.

http://www.mspreef.com/
It asks me for a password and I just hit cancel.

Here is a more direct link.
http://www.mspreef.com/flatworms/ident_fw.htm

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlgaeMan
I killed a bunch last night with FW exit. I know they were acro fw's since I've been dealing with them for almost a year.

A.M.,
Expand on this some more please.
What was the situation, dosage, time etc.?
Thanks,
Sean

SeanT · 10/14/2005, 02:19 PM

2nd hour is up, off to go inspect.

10/14/2005, 10:04 AM	#1
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	Acro FW's I got 'em, you treat 'em. Hey Gang, Sure as snot, I have acro FW's on at least 4 small colonies. Two of the colonies have egg bunches and 2 don't (I have no idea how that is possible). So here is the deal...I have researched all the possible fixes and none seem to work that well. Soooo...I am going to let the gallery devise four treatments and I will try each one. Think of it as a way to either eliminate bad ideas and begin zeroing in on good ideas. The treatment will not be done tank wide but in a QT tank. So, what should the first treatment be? Sean __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 12:27 PM	#4
sonofgaladriel Shiny! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,670	Flatworm Exit worked for me. A fellow reefer swears by her mandarin, another by his banana wrasse, and another by his Potter's leopard wrasse. All three fish wiped out an infestation and keep the tank free of them. __________________ Its not who you are, but what you do that defines you.

10/14/2005, 12:41 PM	#6
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	Anyway, since none of you cowboys (and girls ) have 'volunteered' some ways for me to go Dr. Frankenstein on the corals here are some pics of my first test. I got the medication at Petsmart and picked up a 2.5 gallon nano there as well. My QT tanks are a 20 long and 29 gallon but that seemed like a waste for a single coral. Here is the tank: __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 12:44 PM	#7
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	Here is the first patient. An A. valida that was looking good before. Here is a before and after pic. Before: A pic of it a mere 10 minutes ago. __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 12:49 PM	#8
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	The recommended dosage of this medication is 1 drop per 10 gallons of water. I am dosing 2 drops in approx 2 gallons of water. In the tank I have placed the coral, a powerhead and a temp probe. I plan an hour long dip then a good inspection. If I don't see any dead flatworms I will leave it in there for up to 3 hours. If there are still no dead flatworms, I will rinse the coral off and try again at a higher dosage. If that doesn't work...I will find another med. Here is the setup. Wish me luck. __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 10:52 AM	#2
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	Ok, no responses eh. Well I am going to Petsmart to get a bottle of this and give it a try. __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 10:53 AM	#3
senorpyro Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kingsburg, CA Posts: 203	the only way i've found to get rid of them is removing the effected colonies/frags from the tank, and manually removing the flatworms in another container... high direct, or turbulent current is the only way i've been able to get them off. moving the corals to a small container, and using a turkey baster to shoot violent streams of water at the corals usually causes them to fly off. after basterizing every nook and cranny a few times, i vigorously shake, twist and plunge the coral in the container of water for a minute or two to get any remaining flatworms off... this'll have to be repeated every week or so, while also manually scraping off any and all eggs found - one 'treatment' is never enough. for me and atleast one other local reefer, it's been an ongoing battle, but one that with time we're definintely making progress with. make sure you do this in a separate container though, since if you do this in your main tank, the flatworms will fly off, only to land on another coral. generally speaking, if you've seen a few of em, count on there being another 3-4x as many hiding out that you haven't seen. very carefuly inspect all milli's in your tank, as in my experience, they seem to prefer milli and milli-esque corals.

10/14/2005, 12:54 PM	#9
Jamesurq Moved On Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 5,470	Good luck.... Do you have any closeups of these guys - I might have the solution for you... Maybe not though.. But in test #2 - try a 6X FWE treatment for at least an hour...

10/14/2005, 01:00 PM	#11
MiddletonMark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 14,441	Good luck! __________________ read a lot, think for yourself Current Tank Info: 58g stony reef [250w10k, 250w 20k MH, 2x vho act, Octopus150, 6060 + 6000] ; 60g mixed tub

10/14/2005, 01:12 PM	#13
Mantis Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,027	Somebody who has these flatworms needs to try to talk their vet. into giving them the powdered form of Levamisole hydrochloride. I would do it, but I got rid of the acro. flatworms already. __________________ "Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice." Steve Jobs TOTM September 2011 http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/87-tank-of-the-month Current Tank Info: 400 gallon

10/14/2005, 01:13 PM	#14
MiddletonMark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 14,441	Sure those aren't Red Bugs, James? Never seen Acro FW [yet] ... but the little dots, extreme changes in PE sound familiar. __________________ read a lot, think for yourself Current Tank Info: 58g stony reef [250w10k, 250w 20k MH, 2x vho act, Octopus150, 6060 + 6000] ; 60g mixed tub

10/14/2005, 01:22 PM	#15
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	Acro flatworms are clear in color. That is one of things that makes them so darned hard to see on the corals skin. *Update* After 1 hour treatment I did not notice any dead flatworms on the bottom of the tank even after blowing them with a powerhead (Zoomed). I did notice that the egg bunches are still there and intact. I didn't expect them to dissolve or anything, just reporting all the info. I have added another 2 drops of the medication to the water and will extend this out to a 2 hour test. Sean __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 01:39 PM	#16
Ereefic Moved On Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,821	I recently discovered these little buggers on about 5 acro's last week. The whole center area (probably 1/3) of one coral was totally ate up. I hit it with the turkey baster in the tank and a couple of flatworms flew off. I pulled that coral out and put it in a bucket with about 1/2 gal. of tank water. Hit it with the turkey baster again and had several more come off. I sucked them out and put them in a small glass with some water and dropped in a couple of drops of Iodine and within minutes they were no longer moving around. I put a capful of Seachem Reef Dip in the original bucket with the coral still in it and let it sit between 5 and 10 minutes and basted it again and nothing more came off. I repeated this process with the other acros, small frags. All corals are back in the tank and i've pulled them all out 2 more times since and checked them and I haven't seen anymore come off. I also have not seen any egg sacks, which are supposedly orangish in nature. I also added a six line wrasse and i've seen him pecking at the affected corals, but can't say for sure if it is eating flatworms. All corals are resting comfortably and are expected to fully recover.

10/14/2005, 01:47 PM	#17
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	Ereefic, I am by no means an expert but have read a LOT of threads and the basic consenus is that if the FW's are there then their eggs are their. They are rally small and almost look like a patch of the corals flesh. Get a magnifying glass and examine the areas of the coral where the flesh is gone. Here are some pics of egg sacsthat I just found on another site. http://www.mspreef.com/ They are a bunch of individual eggs bunched together. A lot of little balls. Jamesurg, check out this site for some FW pics. Sean __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 01:49 PM	#18
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	*update on test* More of an observation actually, I did notice the coral slime a bit which may have been caused by either the additional medication or being blasted by a powerhead. But, I have blasted corals before with powerheads in my tank and not had any sliming problems. I hope the medication isn't toxic at these high concentrations. *EDIT* I believe I know what caused the sliming. The powerhead has managed to get a little venturi action going filing the tank with micro bubbles every few minutes. I just noticed it. __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).

10/14/2005, 02:02 PM	#20
Jamesurq Moved On Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 5,470	Couldn't get that site to work Sean.

10/14/2005, 02:04 PM	#21
Ereefic Moved On Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,821	Yeah, i've seen those pics too Sean. I did check the corals with a magnifying glass and saw nothing like that. It was after blasting them good with the turkey baster, so maybe they were blown off if they were there? I don't know. Just going to keep checking them and see how it goes.

10/14/2005, 02:06 PM	#22
AlgaeMan Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,923	I killed a bunch last night with FW exit. I know they were acro fw's since I've been dealing with them for almost a year. Its possible that at a particular stage of a fw they are vulnerable to this.

10/14/2005, 02:19 PM	#25
SeanT Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 13,860	2nd hour is up, off to go inspect. __________________ My tank was cool. Current Tank Info: Barebottom (the tank not me...at least not at the moment).