illumnae's SPS shallow reef

[reefmutt]

Man.. sounds hellish.. I could not do what you are embarking on.. I think I’d just take it down.. I am noticing indications of aefw in my tank as well but I won’t be so drastic, I don’t think. I am going to remove my melanurus wrasse- who ate all of my peppermint shrimp- then, I will reintroduce 25 or so peppermints, and then begin basting corals to dislodge the adult aefw.
The peppermints are extremely effective at controlling the eggs..

[illumnae]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Man.. sounds hellish.. I could not do what you are embarking on.. I think I’d just take it down.. I am noticing indications of aefw in my tank as well but I won’t be so drastic, I don’t think. I am going to remove my melanurus wrasse- who ate all of my peppermint shrimp- then, I will reintroduce 25 or so peppermints, and then begin basting corals to dislodge the adult aefw.
The peppermints are extremely effective at controlling the eggs..

If it was just either the aefw or the ich outbreak I would not be doing this. It's both occurring together plus the fact I find my scape too high that spurred me to this. I'll be very honest... as I wait for the quarantine tank to free up, I'm having second thoughts almost daily.

You can also try Flatworm Stop. After I started it I've found that I stopped having to throw away more colonies. I'm sure the pests are still there, but controlled.

[reefmutt]

I’ve never tried flatworm stop. Always assumed it was a total gimmick..
I guess I have nothing to lose.

[DiscusHeckel]

I have read that some people use flatworm stop even though there is no flatworm presence in their tank. I have never understood the motive.

[illumnae]

Flatworm Stop is supposed to thicken the sps flesh. It's meant to make the flesh unpalatable to aefw thus controlling their numbers. Apparently when used in conjunction with Coral Booster it also has the added effect of boosting coral colouration

[illumnae]

Did a small upgrade to the lights before the big teardown

2018-01-29_06-47-57 by Yi Xiang Lye, on Flickr

[reefmutt]

Nice. Which lights?

[illumnae]

Still the same Radions, but I added the new diffusers. The spread is noticeably better and I have to admit, I didn't notice the disco effect until now when I'm noticing the lack of it. My friend who uses t5 says it looks like t5 but with shimmer.

I wanted to get opinions on this: during the 6 weeks of dipping should I continue dosing my TM and KZ supplements?

[reefmutt]

Oh cool! I’ve never seen the diffusers before. They totally change the look of the light. Didn’t realize they were raduons.
Remind again what you are dosing..

[illumnae]

The signature pucks of the radions are no longer visible

I'm currently dosing the following:
- TM Bacto Balance (carbon source + additional nitrate and phosphate to keep nutrients reduced but balanced)
- TM A- and K+ Elements (trace elements)
- TM Reef Actif (Biopolymers for corals)
- KZ Flatworm Stop and Coral Balance (ostensibly to keep aefw in check, but supposed to increase coral colouration too)

I'm thinking to increase coral feeding via Reef Roids to make up for the tank being fishless for the 72 day fallow period, and just keep dosing everything as per normal since it's all for coral health - and corals are remaining in the tank. Not sure if that's wise though.

[reefmutt]

I would think that the bacto balance may need to be reduced without the fish- even with reef roid additions..
You’ll probably have to be on top of testing when the fish come out..

[illumnae]

Yup it's back to daily testing things are so stable now... it's just the thought of aefw in the tank that gets to me

[Piper27]

Aefw are not that bad when things are stable and you have a controller in the tank, either you with a baster or shrimp or fish or all of the above. Flatworm stop really helps with the damage and amount of them in the tank. I am hoping that a true in tank treatments comes out soon so people who have them and collectors can be relieved because it's not as fun reefing when you have pests. I would keep things going, especially with the new radion lenses thoes things look amazing, and that's saying something coming from me!

[Piper27]

I would keep dosing but cut back the reef actif and other carbon source until you can find a Ballance in nutrients with no fish. I would have some nitrate and phosphate on hand too since you are carbon dosing. And I would use a mixture of oysterfeast reef roids and some very good amino and vitamins supplements, even adding some selcon in the mix will be a good idea. It will help the sps with a feeding response. Hopefully you don't have to cut back on the carbon sources too much, too quickly, would think things might go down hill from there. Good luck! Love the tank.

[DiscusHeckel]

In the absence of fish, your corals will start to look pale due to lack of nitrogen. As suggested above, there is perhaps a good case to stop bacto-balance, but I would continue with Reef Actif, albeit with a reduced dose.

I am personally not convinced that reef roids are digested by acroporids. I would use either KZ Pohl's Coral Vitalizer (or Salifert Coral food) or Salifert Coralline amino acids (or KZ Amino Acids) to provide the much needed nitrogen and phosphorus.

[illumnae]

Originally Posted by Piper27

Aefw are not that bad when things are stable and you have a controller in the tank, either you with a baster or shrimp or fish or all of the above. Flatworm stop really helps with the damage and amount of them in the tank. I am hoping that a true in tank treatments comes out soon so people who have them and collectors can be relieved because it's not as fun reefing when you have pests. I would keep things going, especially with the new radion lenses thoes things look amazing, and that's saying something coming from me!

Thanks for the advice! Things are definitely looking amazing, but even after a few months of Flatworm Stop and adding fish to eat the aefw, I still have to throw away approximately 1-2 colonies every month. There's definitely a reduction in the destructiveness of the pest, but it's still ongoing, just at a slower rate. All my friends who have seen my tank personally find it a pity/waste that I have to tear everything down to dip, but I feel that it's the only long term solution.

Originally Posted by Piper27

I would keep dosing but cut back the reef actif and other carbon source until you can find a Ballance in nutrients with no fish. I would have some nitrate and phosphate on hand too since you are carbon dosing. And I would use a mixture of oysterfeast reef roids and some very good amino and vitamins supplements, even adding some selcon in the mix will be a good idea. It will help the sps with a feeding response. Hopefully you don't have to cut back on the carbon sources too much, too quickly, would think things might go down hill from there. Good luck! Love the tank.

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

In the absence of fish, your corals will start to look pale due to lack of nitrogen. As suggested above, there is perhaps a good case to stop bacto-balance, but I would continue with Reef Actif, albeit with a reduced dose.

I am personally not convinced that reef roids are digested by acroporids. I would use either KZ Pohl's Coral Vitalizer (or Salifert Coral food) or Salifert Coralline amino acids (or KZ Amino Acids) to provide the much needed nitrogen and phosphorus.

I do happen to have a bottle of KZ Coral Vitalizer that my friend gave to me to try out. I haven't opened it yet, but perhaps now's the time! I also have Oyster Feast in the fridge and Selcon in my fish food cabinet that I can dose into the tank even without any fish. Hopefully with these 3 food sources and reduced Bacto Balance dosage, the tank will continue to maintain the same low but not too low nutrient levels. I have Calcium Nitrate crystals that I can dose as well. Worst case scenario, I can ghost feed the tank too.

[DiscusHeckel]

Can you please remind me the name of the Caribsea sand you are using? (the heavier grade one)

[illumnae]

I believe it should be the Caribsea Arag-Alive Natural Reef.

[illumnae]

3 hours of back breaking work last Saturday and everything is torn down and the first dip done. Aside from being exhausted, I was also pretty grossed out at all the dead aefw floating around. A couple of them adhered to my arm as I was swirling corals around in the dipping tub... ugh!

The bad news is one of my favourite colonies has started to stn. I cut a few large frags from it hoping they'll make it. The good news is almost everything else looks salvageable. Most of the colonies are displaying good pe.

This Saturday will be dip #2 plus catching all the fish out to qt.

Quick question: is there a reason for the 6 week treatment instead of 5 or 7 weeks?

[Piper27]

Five works but people like extra dips just to make sure an egg wasn't missed or a worm got through in the beginning. I would do five dips just because I have a lot of experience with them and know how to do the dip process confidently. Good luck!
I have the habit of basting every acro in the tank twice a week or more. It really keeps corals health up with or without flatworms. I would even care to bet that with flatworm stop and basting it's possible to eliminate aefw from a tank. But only if the colonies are smaller and easily reachable.

[illumnae]

Thank you! Reason I asked is because I'm away most of the day on the day of the 6th dip. Was wondering if I needed to still go ahead with the dip at night or if I could end at 5. I'm not as familiar with dipping so I'm not so confident. Maybe on week 6 I'll dip once on Tuesday and once on Sunday to play safe.

Man, if I miss out one after all this and the infestation comes back I think I'm throwing in the towel and going back to keeping discus! Maybe Heckel discus eh, Bulent?

[DiscusHeckel]

Originally Posted by illumnae

Man, if I miss out one after all this and the infestation comes back I think I'm throwing in the towel and going back to keeping discus! Maybe Heckel discus eh, Bulent?

If I were to keep discus again, it would have to be S. discus heckel.

[DiscusHeckel]

I have received a tub of FM Ultra Phos. Instructions clearly say "do not rinse the material". "For a slower adsorption rinse the filled filter bag with osmotic water before use."

On the other hand, Seachem PhosGuard instructions clearly instruct users to rinse and soak the media before use.

I find this confusing. What do you do with your FM Ultra Phos media?

[illumnae]

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

If I were to keep discus again, it would have to be S. discus heckel.

I used to keep Heckel discus from the Unini and Paunini rivers. They were very blue, much like the famous "blue moon" heckels from Nhamunda.

2018-02-15_06-53-01 by Yi Xiang Lye, on Flickr

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

I have received a tub of FM Ultra Phos. Instructions clearly say "do not rinse the material". "For a slower adsorption rinse the filled filter bag with osmotic water before use."

On the other hand, Seachem PhosGuard instructions clearly instruct users to rinse and soak the media before use.

I find this confusing. What do you do with your FM Ultra Phos media?

I don't rinse my Ultra Phos. I find it cleaner with less fines than the Seachem media. It also adsorbs alot more phosphate per ml than the Seachem media.

[DiscusHeckel]

Originally Posted by illumnae

I used to keep Heckel discus from the Unini and Paunini rivers. They were very blue, much like the famous "blue moon" heckels from Nhamunda.

2018-02-15_06-53-01 by Yi Xiang Lye, on Flickr

Oh man, this is a delightful picture. Thanks for sharing. It has brought back memories. My discus fish looked a little different compared to yours in that they did not have much "blue face". Also, I kept wild-caught Altum angels.

Originally Posted by illumnae

I don't rinse my Ultra Phos. I find it cleaner with less fines than the Seachem media. It also adsorbs alot more phosphate per ml than the Seachem media.

Thanks for your reply. Looking back nine years ago, I must have followed the instructions because I do not remember any rinsing of the media. A 1000-ml tub of Ultra Phios arrived yesterday from Germany. I am going to replace PhosGuard with UltraPhos probably today. It is a real pain to remove all the dust from PhosGuard. It is just as bad Sachem Matrix carbon.