Help with strange slime.

[mmscuba]

Greetings! Looking for a little help here. I’ve been in this hobby well over 30 years and I’m having a problem with a new cycling tank that I have never encountered.

The tank is a 40B and was started on Drc 22. The ammonia has been around 4ppm (dosing), no nitrites or nitrates. All other parameters are good. I just got home from work yesterday and this slimy stringy stuff is all over my rock. It is Life Rock from Caribsea. I brushed it all off with a paint brush, waited for the water to clear, and changed the socks. They were so clogged with the slime that the water wouldn’t even drain out of them. After scratching my head I decided for the lack of any other ideas I treated with Chemi Clean.

I get up this morning and it’s back.

I got a video but it’s not allowing me to post it. Not sure if this screen shot from the vid will work or not.

Thanks in advance for any help with this!

[ChronicReefH2o]

The photo is hard to tell what it is. try turning on white light to get a better photo of them. But to me it looks like your still in the cycling stage. Have you tried using Hydrogen Peroxide? 3% dosed @ 1ml per 10 us gallons. I would dose it once a day and see how that goes for 2 weeks. If that doesn't reduce it, up the dosage to 1ml per 10gallons 2x per day. once in the morning and once at night.

[mmscuba]

Originally Posted by ChronicReefH2o

The photo is hard to tell what it is. try turning on white light to get a better photo of them. But to me it looks like your still in the cycling stage. Have you tried using Hydrogen Peroxide? 3% dosed @ 1ml per 10 us gallons. I would dose it once a day and see how that goes for 2 weeks. If that doesn't reduce it, up the dosage to 1ml per 10gallons 2x per day. once in the morning and once at night.

Here's a better pic. It is clear and gelatinous. It actually shows up better under the blue light. It collects as a thick slime on the surface of the sump after I clean it off the rocks. The skimmer is taking a lot out as well and is leaving a light brown slimy skimate in the skimmer drain jug. I just did another ammonia test this morning and the Ammonia color on the API test is darker than the darkest one on the color chart (8ppm). I have never seen an ammonia spike last this long. 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates.

No I have not tried the peroxide yet but was considering it.

Thank you for your help.

[mmscuba]

I forgot that some of the other parameters may help.
KH - 214.8
Po3 - .25ppm
Ca - 420ppm
PH - 8.2

[mcgyvr]

That is what we call "bacterial snot" which is a bacterial bloom likely caused by an excessive amount of ammonia (maintaining it at 4ppm is totally wrong and excessive)..

Please stop dosing ammonia and let the tank finish its cycle on its own (let ammonia and nitrite levels drop to zero naturally).. again STOP adding ammonia.. That is what caused this excessive bacterial bloom..
DO not add anything to the tank except fresh water (no salt) to make up for what evaporates. Just let it clear itself and finish cycling naturally.. I'd expect a few weeks for it to finish the cycle and to recover from this..

[ChronicReefH2o]

During the mean time, you can remove most of the snot using a airline tubing and filter through a filter sock, the filter water will go back into the tank. Keep at it and in a few weeks it should clear up for you nicely once the tank as settled down.

[mmscuba]

Thank you guys for the input, but I am not dosing with ammonia now. I dosed up to 1 ppm for four days bringing it to 4ppm which is how I’ve been doing it for years. The ammonia started getting higher on its own after this slime started happening. You would think there has to be an ammonia source source somewhere to keep raising it but where?

[mmscuba]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

That is what we call "bacterial snot" which is a bacterial bloom likely caused by an excessive amount of ammonia (maintaining it at 4ppm is totally wrong and excessive)..

Please stop dosing ammonia and let the tank finish its cycle on its own (let ammonia and nitrite levels drop to zero naturally).. again STOP adding ammonia.. That is what caused this excessive bacterial bloom..
DO not add anything to the tank except fresh water (no salt) to make up for what evaporates. Just let it clear itself and finish cycling naturally.. I'd expect a few weeks for it to finish the cycle and to recover from this..

I can appreciate your concern but in case you didn’t read my original post I’ve been doing this for over 30 years, so far from a newb here bro. The top off water is pretty standard knowledge, and I am running an ATO with RODI water.

And why do you say 4ppm ammonia to start the nitrogen cycle is too high? Everyone I know uses that stars. 1ppm percday over 4 days until level is 4ppm and then justvwait and let nature take its course.

[mmscuba]

This is the system.

[mmscuba]

Originally Posted by mmscuba

This is the system.

Well for some reason the pic didn’t upload. Will try again.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by mmscuba

I can appreciate your concern but in case you didn’t read my original post I’ve been doing this for over 30 years, so far from a newb here bro. The top off water is pretty standard knowledge, and I am running an ATO with RODI water.

And why do you say 4ppm ammonia to start the nitrogen cycle is too high? Everyone I know uses that stars. 1ppm percday over 4 days until level is 4ppm and then justvwait and let nature take its course.

I read your post to start.. I often include information in posts on internet forums that will not only benefit you the original poster but others that may not be as "knowledgeable".

As to the ammonia levels..
Studies have show that as you near/exceed the 5mg/L limit you are getting to a level where you are potentially stunting bacterial development and potentially killing it vs feeding its growth..
Its commonly recommended to only dose up to 1 or 2ppm to stay clear of that peak point where growth turns to stunting.. 1 or 2ppm is more than sufficient to have a successful cycling process and effectively take care of new tank bioloads,etc..
Your original post also simply mentioned (dosing) which can indicate the act of dosing is still going on. I just didn't want you to continue dosing "if" you were still doing such.. You have reached a point (very commonly seen with excessive carbon dosing) where bacterial levels are high enough that this snot forms. That is typically a point that indicates an excessive level and lets you know to back down on the dosage..

[mmscuba]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I read your post to start.. I often include information in posts on internet forums that will not only benefit you the original poster but others that may not be as "knowledgeable".

As to the ammonia levels..
Studies have show that as you near/exceed the 5mg/L limit you are getting to a level where you are potentially stunting bacterial development and potentially killing it vs feeding its growth..
Its commonly recommended to only dose up to 1 or 2ppm to stay clear of that peak point where growth turns to stunting.. 1 or 2ppm is more than sufficient to have a successful cycling process and effectively take care of new tank bioloads,etc..
Your original post also simply mentioned (dosing) which can indicate the act of dosing is still going on. I just didn't want you to continue dosing "if" you were still doing such.. You have reached a point (very commonly seen with excessive carbon dosing) where bacterial levels are high enough that this snot forms. That is typically a point that indicates an excessive level and lets you know to back down on the dosage..

OK, I see what you meant then. The fact that a higher ammonia rate will kill off the nitrosomonas is something I’ve never thought about but it makes sense. I guess I’ve just been lucky all these years and have never had a problem with extreme ammonia levels. Are usually start seeing nitrites when the ammonia level gets around 1 to 2 Ppm and then the Ammonia is gone shortly thereafter. So, going on your advice I am going to do a 60% water change this evening to bring those ammonia levels back down. What do you think?

[mmscuba]

There is a thread on another forum that brought up something concerning also. I have always used the GE silicome 1 clear for everything. Someone over there said that even though it’s not on the label they have started putting the mold and mildew inhibitors in it. I have not researched that yet, but it kind of had me wondering if that may be my problem because are used it when building my son and installing the overflow in the aquarium. Has anyone here heard of such?

[mcgyvr]

Ge type 1 is a neutral cure silicone vs type 2 which is an acetoxy type..neutral cure is just naturally more mold resistant and type 1 does not include any mold inhibitors .
It can take longer than the acetoxy type to cure and can release acetone or alcohol like substances while curing...

Provided you let both types fully cure neither are harmful..
Most of the rumors of danger from ge 1 are because people had problems when they didnt allow it to fully cure before use...

[mmscuba]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Ge type 1 is a neutral cure silicone vs type 2 which is an acetoxy type..neutral cure is just naturally more mold resistant and type 1 does not include any mold inhibitors .
It can take longer than the acetoxy type to cure and can release acetone or alcohol like substances while curing...

Provided you let both types fully cure neither are harmful..
Most of the rumors of danger from ge 1 are because people had problems when they didnt allow it to fully cure before use...

You are correct. I didn’t know that but upon further research I found that, for the reason you stated above, they don’t spefically sell it as a mold and mildew preventive, but the formulation of Silicone 1 is naturally mold and mildew resistant without any additives. This is why the tube soesn’t State anything about it but in the specifications Under features it states mold and mildew resistant. This must be where the confusion came from.

Anyway, thanks for that, and at least I can rule that out as a problem.

[mmscuba]

Just got back from a local fish store owned by a marine biologist with a Masters degree in chemistry. One of the most well respected fish stores in town. I brought pictures and a water sample to him. After looking at the pictures and doing the water tests he said to not change anything, put a couple of fish in it and start feeding heavily. He even said to not worry about cleaning out the slime. He calls this “force cycling” and said my tank should be cycled in a couple more weeks and the slime would go away.

Regardless of this guys credentials I think he is totally full of ****. I can’t even imagine taking his recommendation. I didn’t buy any fish BTW.

So here is my plan: 80% water change while cleaning out all of the slime I can, which should bring the Ammonia down to around 2ppm. Dose with Microbe Lift Nite Out daily, and see what happens from there.

[mcgyvr]

I think your plan is valid (I actually wouldn't do anything but just wait as I stated above) and I too would ignore the recommendation made by the store owner. They should really offer more intelligent and caring information to their customers.

Its one thing to "force cycle" from the start (day 1) where the added bioload will only cause a minor increase in the ammonia level. Its another to introduce the wildlife to a system with a measured elevated level.

[mmscuba]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I think your plan is valid (I actually wouldn't do anything but just wait as I stated above) and I too would ignore the recommendation made by the store owner. They should really offer more intelligent and caring information to their customers.

Its one thing to "force cycle" from the start (day 1) where the added bioload will only cause a minor increase in the ammonia level. Its another to introduce the wildlife to a system with a measured elevated level.

I’ll let you know what happens. I do appreciate your input.

[mmscuba]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I think your plan is valid (I actually wouldn't do anything but just wait as I stated above) and I too would ignore the recommendation made by the store owner. They should really offer more intelligent and caring information to their customers.

Its one thing to "force cycle" from the start (day 1) where the added bioload will only cause a minor increase in the ammonia level. Its another to introduce the wildlife to a system with a measured elevated level.

After much thought I decided to go your route and just leave it alone, except I started dosing daily with Microbe Lift Nite Out. The "slime" was completely gone about three days after my last post, which was a good thing. At the same time I finally started showing some Nitrites. Now, 6 days later the ammonia is at 8ppm and the Nitrites are at 5ppm. This tells me that the Nitrosomona are doing their job but I've never in my 30 + years in the hobby saw the Ammonia still present at such a high level with this amount of Nitrites present. At this point I'm hoping that it will sort itself out but I've never seen this pattern before. There definitely is/was something wrong with the system but at this point I have noclue what it may be.