Low Nutrients Cyano Problem out of control!!

lousybreed · 06/04/2016, 06:50 PM

I need help. I have read everything posted in the last year on Cyano and tried almost everything. Black out? Yes. Reduced feedings and lots of water changes? Yes. More GFO and carbon? Yes. More circulation? 20x tank volume. Didn't help at all. I carbon dose. I switched over to vinegar because that was supposed help which didn't change anything. Lowered lighting intensity and it didn't help. Wet skimming didn't help. Hell this Cyano is getting worse. 1ppm nitrates and 0.02ppm Phosphate. I am about to use chemiclean because I am going to go crazy and broke. I have been doing so many water changes its crazy. Any suggestions? The weird thing is all my corals are doing good.

Bent · 06/04/2016, 06:57 PM

How positive are you that this is actually cyano?

Pics?

lousybreed · 06/04/2016, 07:20 PM

I will tomorrow. It's slimy, reddish, makes bubbles during the photo period (pearling for any fw planted tank guys) and comes off with a puff of a turkey baster. Covers everything. Grows super quick.

slief · 06/04/2016, 09:45 PM

Increase your flow in the effected areas. Vacuum your sand bed and blast the rocks off with a power head. Cyano collects where the waste settles. if you have waste settling, cyano will collect there. It pretty much only collects in areas where the flow is minimal and generally in the dead spots. If you eliminate those dead spots, waste won't collect nor will cyano.

oseymour · 06/04/2016, 09:59 PM

I was having cyano issues with my new tank with low nutrients. I tried the steps you did with no sucess.

Two different treatments with Red Slime remover over 2 weeks did it for me. It never came back. I still had some brown algae on the bed after the treatments but two sea cucumbers take care of the sand keeping it white.

Redrosetuscan · 06/05/2016, 01:24 AM

I had the same scenario, with regard to flow I've got a 66x30x28 with a tunze 110 return and two gyres which for quite a while are both on the same time and were both at about 90%. Flow is chaotic I'll say.......

I ended up using a cyano remover and then have massively upped my feeding, like you my nutrients were low, I believe I simply had an imbalance. It's been about 6-8weeks and tank is still clean apart from one tiny tiny patch.

lousybreed · 06/05/2016, 06:26 AM

Ok I have a total of 1500gpm circulation on my 29 gallon. I should add more flow? Worried I will blast my corals to the moon! Some of the best growth is in high flow areas

lousybreed · 06/05/2016, 06:30 AM

The

lousybreed · 06/05/2016, 06:31 AM

Next one

lousybreed · 06/05/2016, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

Increase your flow in the effected areas. Vacuum your sand bed and blast the rocks off with a power head. Cyano collects where the waste settles. if you have waste settling, cyano will collect there. It pretty much only collects in areas where the flow is minimal and generally in the dead spots. If you eliminate those dead spots, waste won't collect nor will cyano.

Unfortunately what you have suggested is what I have been doing for the last three weeks. I have very few dead spots. With the increased circulation I am actually having issues finding areas with low enough flow for my LPS. I mean I could add another power head. For a total of 2000gpm flow. In a 29gallon tank😳😳😳😳

d2mini · 06/05/2016, 07:06 AM

I get this same stuff in my nano. Very annoying.
It's also light dependent, i've killed it all off a few times by going dark for 2-3 days.
Blow the rocks off with a turkey baster on a regular basis and try decreasing your lighting intensity if possible.

DrPheel · 06/05/2016, 07:37 AM

with the amount of algae in the tank I can tell you your system is far from low nutrient. From what I can see you have no use for carbon dosing or vinegar dosing as you don't seem to have a big bio load.... once you deplete your water of "nutrients" to feed the bacteria you create from carbon dosing you get massive die off and if your skimmer cant pull everything out you will end up with the issues you are having ... algae , cyano , slimey film on water , ect

stop the dosing and do proper maintenance as stated above. Water changes - siphon your sand - scrub your rock or blow it with a baster and make sure you catch everything with your siphon. I learned it the hard way when I started my new build , carbon dosing is good when you have issue controlling high nitrates from a big bio-load or heavy feeding. Other then that you are just causing the cyano and other issues. The phosphate part it consumes is very minimal so run GFO instead and you will have better results !

Hope this helps , Happy Reefing

oseymour · 06/05/2016, 09:50 AM

Here is how it looked in my tank.
The entire sandbed and rocks was like that.

Nitrate at 5 (Salifert), phosphate was at .08 (Hanna ULR checker)

I had a heavy fish load and running pellets. Blackout and more flow didn't help. I had mp40s running high kicking up sand. Then I had Tunze 6095 which I could position better still kicking up sand and still not better. The Red Slime Remover is what worked for me and the green slime never came back.

I had some brown algae on the sand left but the sea cucumbers and some hermits cleaned it up.

marinelife · 06/05/2016, 10:35 AM

What is your lighting schedule?

Yogre · 06/05/2016, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2mini

I get this same stuff in my nano. Very annoying.
It's also light dependent, i've killed it all off a few times by going dark for 2-3 days.
Blow the rocks off with a turkey baster on a regular basis and try decreasing your lighting intensity if possible.

Cyano is the bane of my existence. I just finished up a 3 day lights out, it was all over my sand and rocks. I may try reducing my photoperiod.

Dennis, when you were running your 200, how many hours/day were you running the halides?

sirreal63 · 06/05/2016, 04:47 PM

Two or three days of lights out isn't enough, it may take five or six days to effect a kill. You will know when it dies, your skimmer will start pulling it out and the color of the skim will change.

d2mini · 06/05/2016, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogre

Cyano is the bane of my existence. I just finished up a 3 day lights out, it was all over my sand and rocks. I may try reducing my photoperiod.

Dennis, when you were running your 200, how many hours/day were you running the halides?

I was running them from around 6.5 hours if I remember correctly. And then the T5's for a couple hours before and after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirreal63

Two or three days of lights out isn't enough, it may take five or six days to effect a kill. You will know when it dies, your skimmer will start pulling it out and the color of the skim will change.

Jack, are you saying that even though it visually disappears it still needs more time to completely die off?

sirreal63 · 06/05/2016, 06:13 PM

Yes Sir. If your skimmer isn't skimming the remnants of it out, it isn't dead and will come back in short order. Even if you do kill it, you can always get it again but IMO a healthy tank does a good job of fighting it off. Having high biodiversity helps keep the tank clean and this is the first step to keeping pests like Cyano away. I fought this stuff hard in my tank, the long lights out period killed it.

lousybreed · 06/05/2016, 07:11 PM

Thanks guys! I have a 10 hr photo period. Thanks for the advice on the carbon dosing. I just realized I never backed off dosing once my nitrates went to zero!!!! So a 5 day black out? Do you have to reaccimate the corals after lights out?

sirreal63 · 06/05/2016, 07:17 PM

I did for a day or two but I don't think it is an absolute necessity, but I would still ramp up lighting slowly. Don't just go by time, if your skimmer is decent you wil know when it is dieting off.

danrobberg · 06/06/2016, 07:24 AM

I used some kz coral snow and kz cyano clean and that reduced the cyano a lot. I the. Used some kz a balance and that reduced it further when it started to reappear. Finally I stopped carbon dosing and it completely went away in a few days. I have a real light load on my tank now. Only two gobies due to ich wiping out all of my other fish, so my live rock and water changes are doing a good job keeping nutrients in check. When I had the cyano I had 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate. I think cyano can be a problem for a lot of tanks that run some sort of carbon dosing.

marinelife · 06/06/2016, 08:47 AM

After trying everything, all that worked for me was taking my lights down to 3 hours a day, after week no more cyano, then I started slowing going back up. I am at 4.5 hours a day now.

reefgeezer · 06/06/2016, 10:29 AM

Here's what I would suggest and why.

IMHO, Cyano (a bacteria) is fueled by the N & P bound in the dissolved organics. Remember, test kits can't measure those bound nutrients. Reducing the dissolved organic level in the system is key. Water changes, vacuuming out the visible Cyano regularly, using more GAC & changing it often, making sure your skimmer is big enough, working properly, & skimming wet, vacuuming the sand bed, blowing off the rocks, and changing filter socks & any other mechanical filtration often enough to keep debris from decaying and adding to the dissolved organic load, and anything else you can think of to reduce it will help.

IMO, carbon dosing is a good way to create bacteria to complete with the Cyano and make your skimmer more efficient. Not all carbon sources will do so without also fueling the Cyano. I would suggest carbon dosing only with vinegar. IME, it doesn't seem to fuel Cyano, but I really don't know why.

mcgyvr · 06/06/2016, 10:40 AM

green cyano is neat looking...
I've only ever had red... I'm jealous

3 days lights out then siphon + 2 treatments of ultralife red slime remover has ALWAYS done it for me and never caused a problem..

And I've had it FAR worse than any of those pics.. Like 1/4" thick covering EVERYTHING..

Increasing flow doesn't work IMO.. Unless its enough to literally blow it off the rocks then it will just grow somewhere else..

bmitchell138 · 06/06/2016, 10:52 AM

When you all do a lights out for 3 or 4 days, do you cover the tank to prevent all light from entering the tank?

Just wondering because I'm going to do a lights out for a cyano issue and the room that my tank is in doesn't get any direct sun light but there is quite a bit of indirect light during the day especially if the curtains are open.

06/04/2016, 06:50 PM	#1
lousybreed Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sunny USA Posts: 196	Low Nutrients Cyano Problem out of control!! I need help. I have read everything posted in the last year on Cyano and tried almost everything. Black out? Yes. Reduced feedings and lots of water changes? Yes. More GFO and carbon? Yes. More circulation? 20x tank volume. Didn't help at all. I carbon dose. I switched over to vinegar because that was supposed help which didn't change anything. Lowered lighting intensity and it didn't help. Wet skimming didn't help. Hell this Cyano is getting worse. 1ppm nitrates and 0.02ppm Phosphate. I am about to use chemiclean because I am going to go crazy and broke. I have been doing so many water changes its crazy. Any suggestions? The weird thing is all my corals are doing good.

06/04/2016, 06:57 PM	#2
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	How positive are you that this is actually cyano? Pics? __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

06/04/2016, 09:45 PM	#4
slief RC Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 14,173	Increase your flow in the effected areas. Vacuum your sand bed and blast the rocks off with a power head. Cyano collects where the waste settles. if you have waste settling, cyano will collect there. It pretty much only collects in areas where the flow is minimal and generally in the dead spots. If you eliminate those dead spots, waste won't collect nor will cyano. __________________ Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

06/04/2016, 09:59 PM	#5
oseymour Euphyllia Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 1,424	I was having cyano issues with my new tank with low nutrients. I tried the steps you did with no sucess. Two different treatments with Red Slime remover over 2 weeks did it for me. It never came back. I still had some brown algae on the bed after the treatments but two sea cucumbers take care of the sand keeping it white. __________________ Just started Red Sea Reefer 350 (75 Gallon) Build Thread - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2555495 Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350

06/05/2016, 07:06 AM	#11
d2mini Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 10,344	I get this same stuff in my nano. Very annoying. It's also light dependent, i've killed it all off a few times by going dark for 2-3 days. Blow the rocks off with a turkey baster on a regular basis and try decreasing your lighting intensity if possible. __________________ -dennis Elos Diamond 120xl \| Elos Stand \| Radion G4 Pros \| GHL Profilux Controller \| LifeReef Skimmer \| LifeReef Sump Photos taken with a Nikon D750 or Leica M.

06/04/2016, 07:20 PM	#3
lousybreed Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sunny USA Posts: 196	I will tomorrow. It's slimy, reddish, makes bubbles during the photo period (pearling for any fw planted tank guys) and comes off with a puff of a turkey baster. Covers everything. Grows super quick.

06/05/2016, 01:24 AM	#6
Redrosetuscan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: London Posts: 102	I had the same scenario, with regard to flow I've got a 66x30x28 with a tunze 110 return and two gyres which for quite a while are both on the same time and were both at about 90%. Flow is chaotic I'll say....... I ended up using a cyano remover and then have massively upped my feeding, like you my nutrients were low, I believe I simply had an imbalance. It's been about 6-8weeks and tank is still clean apart from one tiny tiny patch.

06/05/2016, 06:26 AM	#7
lousybreed Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sunny USA Posts: 196	Ok I have a total of 1500gpm circulation on my 29 gallon. I should add more flow? Worried I will blast my corals to the moon! Some of the best growth is in high flow areas

06/05/2016, 07:37 AM	#12
DrPheel Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 161	with the amount of algae in the tank I can tell you your system is far from low nutrient. From what I can see you have no use for carbon dosing or vinegar dosing as you don't seem to have a big bio load.... once you deplete your water of "nutrients" to feed the bacteria you create from carbon dosing you get massive die off and if your skimmer cant pull everything out you will end up with the issues you are having ... algae , cyano , slimey film on water , ect stop the dosing and do proper maintenance as stated above. Water changes - siphon your sand - scrub your rock or blow it with a baster and make sure you catch everything with your siphon. I learned it the hard way when I started my new build , carbon dosing is good when you have issue controlling high nitrates from a big bio-load or heavy feeding. Other then that you are just causing the cyano and other issues. The phosphate part it consumes is very minimal so run GFO instead and you will have better results ! Hope this helps , Happy Reefing __________________ Dr's 70G Rimless Cube Build Thread : ==> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2511564 <==

06/05/2016, 09:50 AM	#13
oseymour Euphyllia Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 1,424	Here is how it looked in my tank. The entire sandbed and rocks was like that. Nitrate at 5 (Salifert), phosphate was at .08 (Hanna ULR checker) I had a heavy fish load and running pellets. Blackout and more flow didn't help. I had mp40s running high kicking up sand. Then I had Tunze 6095 which I could position better still kicking up sand and still not better. The Red Slime Remover is what worked for me and the green slime never came back. I had some brown algae on the sand left but the sea cucumbers and some hermits cleaned it up. __________________ Just started Red Sea Reefer 350 (75 Gallon) Build Thread - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2555495 Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350

06/05/2016, 10:35 AM	#14
marinelife Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Union, Ohio, USA Posts: 6,590	What is your lighting schedule? __________________ I'm a SaltGeek are You? All LED since 2010. Current Tank Info: 375 Gallon Reef with siporax, all LED lighting, and Red Dragon 3 and Abyzz A200 on 2 closed loops.

06/05/2016, 04:47 PM	#16
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	Two or three days of lights out isn't enough, it may take five or six days to effect a kill. You will know when it dies, your skimmer will start pulling it out and the color of the skim will change. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

06/05/2016, 06:13 PM	#18
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	Yes Sir. If your skimmer isn't skimming the remnants of it out, it isn't dead and will come back in short order. Even if you do kill it, you can always get it again but IMO a healthy tank does a good job of fighting it off. Having high biodiversity helps keep the tank clean and this is the first step to keeping pests like Cyano away. I fought this stuff hard in my tank, the long lights out period killed it. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

06/05/2016, 07:11 PM	#19
lousybreed Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sunny USA Posts: 196	Thanks guys! I have a 10 hr photo period. Thanks for the advice on the carbon dosing. I just realized I never backed off dosing once my nitrates went to zero!!!! So a 5 day black out? Do you have to reaccimate the corals after lights out?

06/05/2016, 07:17 PM	#20
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	I did for a day or two but I don't think it is an absolute necessity, but I would still ramp up lighting slowly. Don't just go by time, if your skimmer is decent you wil know when it is dieting off. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

06/06/2016, 07:24 AM	#21
danrobberg Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 962	I used some kz coral snow and kz cyano clean and that reduced the cyano a lot. I the. Used some kz a balance and that reduced it further when it started to reappear. Finally I stopped carbon dosing and it completely went away in a few days. I have a real light load on my tank now. Only two gobies due to ich wiping out all of my other fish, so my live rock and water changes are doing a good job keeping nutrients in check. When I had the cyano I had 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate. I think cyano can be a problem for a lot of tanks that run some sort of carbon dosing.

06/06/2016, 08:47 AM	#22
marinelife Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Union, Ohio, USA Posts: 6,590	After trying everything, all that worked for me was taking my lights down to 3 hours a day, after week no more cyano, then I started slowing going back up. I am at 4.5 hours a day now. __________________ I'm a SaltGeek are You? All LED since 2010. Current Tank Info: 375 Gallon Reef with siporax, all LED lighting, and Red Dragon 3 and Abyzz A200 on 2 closed loops.

06/06/2016, 10:29 AM	#23
reefgeezer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 2,621	Here's what I would suggest and why. IMHO, Cyano (a bacteria) is fueled by the N & P bound in the dissolved organics. Remember, test kits can't measure those bound nutrients. Reducing the dissolved organic level in the system is key. Water changes, vacuuming out the visible Cyano regularly, using more GAC & changing it often, making sure your skimmer is big enough, working properly, & skimming wet, vacuuming the sand bed, blowing off the rocks, and changing filter socks & any other mechanical filtration often enough to keep debris from decaying and adding to the dissolved organic load, and anything else you can think of to reduce it will help. IMO, carbon dosing is a good way to create bacteria to complete with the Cyano and make your skimmer more efficient. Not all carbon sources will do so without also fueling the Cyano. I would suggest carbon dosing only with vinegar. IME, it doesn't seem to fuel Cyano, but I really don't know why. __________________ John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef

06/06/2016, 10:40 AM	#24
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	green cyano is neat looking... I've only ever had red... I'm jealous 3 days lights out then siphon + 2 treatments of ultralife red slime remover has ALWAYS done it for me and never caused a problem.. And I've had it FAR worse than any of those pics.. Like 1/4" thick covering EVERYTHING.. Increasing flow doesn't work IMO.. Unless its enough to literally blow it off the rocks then it will just grow somewhere else.. __________________ Who me?

06/06/2016, 10:52 AM	#25
bmitchell138 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 84	When you all do a lights out for 3 or 4 days, do you cover the tank to prevent all light from entering the tank? Just wondering because I'm going to do a lights out for a cyano issue and the room that my tank is in doesn't get any direct sun light but there is quite a bit of indirect light during the day especially if the curtains are open.