Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 10/10/2019, 02:39 AM   #1
Jadran
Registered Member
 
Jadran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Croatia
Posts: 253
Question upgrade metal halide fixture to led

Any of you guys came up with idea of upgrading old MH fixture to led?

I've got this old aquaconnect 2x150w MH + 2x 54w t5 that's been out of use ever since we moved on to t5's. Would love to make a LED/T5 hybrid out of it, if done correctly imo it would look much like those fancy Giesemann's models, Gemini or Aurora, or any other overpriced modern fixture..
been researching my options here for a while now.. but could not find some example of anybody doing the same...

surely someone had to come up with that idea already or is there a catch?

any ideas.. links --?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 01.jpg (58.1 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 02.jpg (55.1 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg 03.jpg (60.7 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 04.jpg (46.6 KB, 21 views)
__________________
Mario

Current Tank Info: elos 120
Jadran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/10/2019, 06:21 AM   #2
Misled
RC Mod
 
Misled's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 10,991
Blog Entries: 11
I made this as a temp while I'm building my AI's and T5's.






Light over tank.




__________________
Jesse
If you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

Current Tank Info: 80 gallon rimless Deep Blue lagoon
Misled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/10/2019, 06:30 AM   #3
five.five-six
Registered Member
 
five.five-six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Corona
Posts: 7,135
Blog Entries: 6
I’m not 100% sure that moving from Halide to LED is actually an upgrade.......

That said, you could just put a rapid LED puck in both the halide lamp locations.


__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13:

"I hate that hole"

Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 250W X 3 20k radiums mixed SPS
five.five-six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/10/2019, 07:14 AM   #4
Jadran
Registered Member
 
Jadran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Croatia
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
That said, you could just put a rapid LED puck in both the halide lamp locations.
thats what I had in mind. Got 2 pucks (100w each) and 300w power supply already.
Plan was to remove the ballasts and to rewire these two for led plucks.. I've been hearing a lot that temperature might be to much of a challenge for simple computer fans in such closed setup so leds would most likely burn... Any experiences there?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 08 bulb MH.jpg (46.0 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 09 bulb open.jpg (50.2 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (28.4 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg 11 side open.jpg (51.6 KB, 18 views)
__________________
Mario

Current Tank Info: elos 120
Jadran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/10/2019, 08:41 AM   #5
five.five-six
Registered Member
 
five.five-six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Corona
Posts: 7,135
Blog Entries: 6
i still run halides so, no


__________________
Originally posted by yellowslayer13:

"I hate that hole"

Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 250W X 3 20k radiums mixed SPS
five.five-six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/10/2019, 02:19 PM   #6
lingwendil
Man who sold the world
 
lingwendil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California.
Posts: 242
You need actual heatsinks for those pucks if you plan to run them in that fixture.


__________________
LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings.
lingwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/10/2019, 02:38 PM   #7
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 19,427
How do you think 200w of leds is going to like a 300w power supply? Leds need a constant current supply.. Doea that puck have that integrated into it?
And yes. Heatsinking is a necessity


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
Straight up INTJ
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/11/2019, 01:13 AM   #8
Jadran
Registered Member
 
Jadran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Croatia
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by lingwendil View Post
You need actual heatsinks for those pucks if you plan to run them in that fixture.
yes, of course computer fans with aluminium heatsinks was my plan all along.. but still in closed sistem like that ..would that be sufficient? thats the real question..



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
How do you think 200w of leds is going to like a 300w power supply? Leds need a constant current supply.. Doea that puck have that integrated into it?
And yes....
honestly i'm not really deep in electronics nor electricity. Might know thing or two about keeping corals and fish but when it comes down to ac-dc and such i know only the basics and trailing the path here. I've been instructed by my friend that 32V 300w led drive switching power supply would do for such setup so I went ahead and got one of ebay. that one would have to be strong enough to supply pucks, and fans to chill pucks and supply itself.. or am I missing something here?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7 power supply 300w.jpg (49.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 12 power supply.jpg (52.8 KB, 9 views)
__________________
Mario

Current Tank Info: elos 120
Jadran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/11/2019, 07:33 AM   #9
lingwendil
Man who sold the world
 
lingwendil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California.
Posts: 242
You need proper ventilation for it to work. I would chop a hole above each puck and slap a chrome PC fan grille over the holes. As long as you have holes for cool air to draw from up there for the intake of the fans it should work well. Without additional holes it will be very tricky to cool properly without some creative ductwork inside to direct air across the heatsinks well.

I would seriously contemplate leaving the T5s in there, and just replace the halide sections with LED, would be a nice versatile fixture that way, that would combine two very effective technologies well.

You will need to run drivers between the LEDs and the PSU, what are the specs on that puck? Voltage/current per channel, etc. Should be able to copy/paste from whichever page you bought them from, as the mods will likely nuke any link you post here if it's from one of the auction sites.


__________________
LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings.
lingwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/11/2019, 12:46 PM   #10
Jadran
Registered Member
 
Jadran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Croatia
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by lingwendil View Post
You need proper ventilation for it to work. I would chop a hole above each puck and slap a chrome PC fan grille over the holes. As long as you have holes for cool air to draw from up there for the intake of the fans it should work well. Without additional holes it will be very tricky to cool properly without some creative ductwork inside to direct air across the heatsinks well.
Well, if it comes to that it wont be a problem to butcher the fixture, but would like to avoid ruining it if possible.. mh's are replaced by opening a small top lid over them (see attached picture in my second post), that might be handy and sollution to this issue.. there is no need to cut anything, we can simply leave that lid open and use that opening as a air shaft... psu is different story .. plan was to place it between the pucks. there is nothing to open on top of it ..(note picture enclosed in my post above).. that one might be more challenging to cool than cooling the pucks. probably that's where we will have to chop..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lingwendil View Post
I would seriously contemplate leaving the T5s in there, and just replace the halide sections with LED, would be a nice versatile fixture that way, that would combine two very effective technologies well.
Oh yes, that was the idea. To build led/t5 hybrid,,, love these toys..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lingwendil View Post
You will need to run drivers between the LEDs and the PSU, what are the specs on that puck? Voltage/current per channel, etc. Should be able to copy/paste from whichever page you bought them from, as the mods will likely nuke any link you post here if it's from one of the auction sites.
lol, rules are understood and obeyed ,

so here are the specs

LED Chip Brand: CREE XPE and Epileds
Output: 100W
DC Forward Voltage (VF): 29V ~ 32V
DC Forward Current (IF): 1800mA ~ 2000mA
Size: 82mmx66mmx3mm
LED Configuration:
4x 430nm UV
7x 450nm royal blue
7x 470nm blue
4x 490nm cyan
2x 660nm red
6x 7000K white
Packing List
1x 100W Multichip LED


__________________
Mario

Current Tank Info: elos 120
Jadran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/11/2019, 12:52 PM   #11
Jadran
Registered Member
 
Jadran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Croatia
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by lingwendil View Post
..and slap a chrome PC fan grille over the hole...
nice one , thx


__________________
Mario

Current Tank Info: elos 120
Jadran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/11/2019, 12:59 PM   #12
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 19,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadran View Post
I've been instructed by my friend that 32V 300w led drive switching power supply would do for such setup so I went ahead and got one of ebay. that one would have to be strong enough to supply pucks, and fans to chill pucks and supply itself.. or am I missing something here?
Your friend is mistaken..
LEDS are not like regular lightbulbs.. They need to be "fed" the proper amount of current or they will go up in smoke..
You need a constant current power supply for each one of those pucks or other method to convert the output of what you bought to a constant current..

You will also need heatsinks as 100W through those pucks even mounted to a good metal plate will overheat them.

Then have you put any thought into dimming?


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
Straight up INTJ
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/11/2019, 01:06 PM   #13
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 19,427
2 x Meanwell LPF-90D-48 LED drivers
with 2 x 100k potentiometers (for manual knob based dimming)
will get those pucks up and running very well..

If you aren't willing to put extensive heatsinking into them then use Meanwell LPD-60D-48 or even LPF-40D-48 to drive them at less current (less current = less heat = less total brightness)


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
Straight up INTJ
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/12/2019, 12:11 PM   #14
oreo57
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,710
Those pucks aren't 100W's btw...
If you feed them a constant current of 2A and it's voltage is 32.. that's 64W...

The metal cavity for the mh's looks like it's all removable so that's going to give you a lot of room and air space.




W/ that space I'd really consider putting in like orphek bars over pucks.. or design your own linear array..

That beamswork like addition above is sort of what I'm referring to.. only much stronger...

Advantage is spreading the heat out..

Second suggestion.. 3 pucks..



Last edited by oreo57; 10/12/2019 at 01:07 PM.
oreo57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/12/2019, 02:24 PM   #15
Jadran
Registered Member
 
Jadran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Croatia
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
have you put any thought into dimming?
No, not really.. just like back in the day.. plain simple on /off controlled by good old analog timmer.. although is modern thing i dont see much adavanage for corals in dimming the lights.. fixture like that + small led moonlight for night ambient would do just fine for me


__________________
Mario

Current Tank Info: elos 120
Jadran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/12/2019, 03:07 PM   #16
Jadran
Registered Member
 
Jadran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Croatia
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by oreo57 View Post
Those pucks aren't 100W's btw...
If you feed them a constant current of 2A and it's voltage is 32.. that's 64W...
So if I understand this correctly A x voltage = W?
Im lost, why does specification say output: 100W than?


Quote:
Originally Posted by oreo57 View Post
The metal cavity for the mh's looks like it's all removable so that's going to give you a lot of room and air space.

Yes, ballasts and other mh related parts will go of course,, leaving just empty "tunnel" behind which would help to aerate, or at least I hope it would. Extra fans can be placed in there in vertical position if needed.. chamber is wide enough to fit pucks nicely


Quote:
Originally Posted by oreo57 View Post
W/ that space I'd really consider putting in like orphek bars over pucks.. or design your own linear array..That beamswork like addition above is sort of what I'm referring to.. only much stronger...Advantage is spreading the heat out..

Second suggestion.. 3 pucks..
sounds cool, thx but I'll keep it simple this time..


__________________
Mario

Current Tank Info: elos 120
Jadran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/12/2019, 04:15 PM   #17
oreo57
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadran View Post
So if I understand this correctly A x voltage = W?
Im lost, why does specification say output: 100W than?




Yes, ballasts and other mh related parts will go of course,, leaving just empty "tunnel" behind which would help to aerate, or at least I hope it would. Extra fans can be placed in there in vertical position if needed.. chamber is wide enough to fit pucks nicely




sounds cool, thx but I'll keep it simple this time..
Theoretical watts..
Usually based on # of 3W "class" diodes..
30 x 3 = 90 rounded to 100W..

Yes .. basic electronics..
W = V X A

Use a 3A driver and you could get 100W-ish out of them..


oreo57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/12/2019, 04:19 PM   #18
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 19,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadran View Post
So if I understand this correctly A x voltage = W?
Im lost, why does specification say output: 100W than?..
Because more often than not the marketing team/specification writers for Chinese products are huge liars attempting to take advantage of consumers like yourself that dont know any better..


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
Straight up INTJ
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/12/2019, 07:57 PM   #19
oreo57
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,710
https://youtu.be/Mls7zCKljic


Similar style..

Yea if going "non-destructive" best to sell it...or use it as is..
Can't speak for the market .. but it's prob. not worth a lot currently..



Last edited by oreo57; 10/12/2019 at 08:03 PM.
oreo57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:46 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.