Muriatic acid Baths for my LR in DT

Daddyrawg · 09/12/2018, 04:40 PM

Does anyone have experience with Muriatic Acid DIps? I believe my Rocks can use this dip to remove all the phosphates bound to it. I have a 90 gal with about 100 lbs of lR.. was thinking of dipping half at a time allowing the other half in DT to seed the dipped rocks when completed.

When I originally set up my tank I bought the rocks directly from LFS that had the rocks sitting in a tank of saltwater. I think If I do this It will help rid of my GHA problem... I run GFO, do weakly water changes, dont run lights too long, tried flukanazole (treatment went good but the GHA appears to slowly be coming back) have snails for CUC..

Just wondering if this is the final straw to solve my prob and can I use half the old LR in DT to seed the new rocks that went through Muriatic acid dips?

sacremon · 09/12/2018, 06:38 PM

Well, GHA needs more than phosphate to grow. It definitely needs a nitrogen source. What are you nitrates like and how do you control them?

bertoni · 09/12/2018, 08:31 PM

The muriatic acid dip should kill the GHA on the rock, and you probably can remove the layer with phosphate. A 20 minute dip in 1 part acid added to 10 parts water should be fine.

You could consider using lanthanum chloride and GFO to remove the phosphate, as well. That would avoid using toxic chemicals, but might take longer.

Daddyrawg · 09/12/2018, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacremon

Well, GHA needs more than phosphate to grow. It definitely needs a nitrogen source. What are you nitrates like and how do you control them?

for nitrates I have a Protein skimmer, replace filter socks now every other day used to be every wk with the 10% weekly water changes.. i will test tonight and get back to you

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

reefgeezer · 09/13/2018, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

The muriatic acid dip should kill the GHA on the rock, and you probably can remove the layer with phosphate. A 20 minute dip in 1 part acid added to 10 parts water should be fine.

You could consider using lanthanum chloride and GFO to remove the phosphate, as well. That would avoid using toxic chemicals, but might take longer.

I've dipped old rock before. It does take a layer off of the rock that has bound phosphates, algae build-up, and etc.. Unfortunately, it exposes a new layer that, according to how the rock was formed, may also have a high quantity of bound phosphates. If you have the time, you might consider putting the newly bathed rock into a vat and doing a Lanthanum Chloride treatment to finish the process completely.

Daddyrawg · 09/13/2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefgeezer

I've dipped old rock before. It does take a layer off of the rock that has bound phosphates, algae build-up, and etc.. Unfortunately, it exposes a new layer that, according to how the rock was formed, may also have a high quantity of bound phosphates. If you have the time, you might consider putting the newly bathed rock into a vat and doing a Lanthanum Chloride treatment to finish the process completely.

When you say newly bathed rock you mean after the acid treatment use LC?

Can I just skip the dip and go with the LC treatment in a vat? How long does the LC treatment take in a vat?

reefgeezer · 09/13/2018, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddyrawg

When you say newly bathed rock you mean after the acid treatment use LC?

Yes, after the acid bath

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddyrawg

Can I just skip the dip and go with the LC treatment in a vat? How long does the LC treatment take in a vat?

Lanthanum Chloride will not dissolve the organic material like algae, detritus, sponges, etc., built up on the rocks. Besides stripping the layer of rock probably highest in bound phosphates, the acid would do that for you.

So... how long does it take? That's hard to say. First, your rock has organic material deep inside it where the acid can't reach that will continue to decay. This will release phosphates as well as nitrogen compounds. Second, there is no telling how much phosphate is bound in the newly exposed layer of rock or how fast it will leach into the water column where the LC can do its magic. I won't BS you here... this is a weeks long process, not days. I acid bathed mine and did the LC thing. Excluding the time my screw-ups cost, the process took about three weeks.

If you can swing it, you'll not have phosphate problems related to the rock. The process also allows some bacteria to be established in the rock so your cycle will be shorter once you put it back into the DT. FWIW, I really like what I ended up with. My phosphates stay very low with very little help.

bertoni · 09/13/2018, 09:27 PM

You can do a lanthanum chloride treatment with or without doing an acid bath. The acid bath will remove organics and should speed the process, though. The question is, how deep is the layer of the rock that has bound phosphate. If the layer is thin, the standard acid bath will remove it. Otherwise, as has been stated, there will be leaching.

Akram · 09/14/2018, 10:34 AM

I had the same issue, I removed half the live rock and let it sit in the sun for 2/3 weeks. Then I sprayed with hose to remove unwanted gha. It worked great. Muriatic acid is very strong, you don’t want to mess with it, it will eat up your live rock, and it will mess up your DT chemistry. Unless you neutralize it in freshwater with baking soda, and make sure ph is optimal before you put it back in

reefgeezer · 09/14/2018, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akram

I had the same issue, I removed half the live rock and let it sit in the sun for 2/3 weeks. Then I sprayed with hose to remove unwanted gha. It worked great. Muriatic acid is very strong, you don’t want to mess with it, it will eat up your live rock, and it will mess up your DT chemistry. Unless you neutralize it in freshwater with baking soda, and make sure ph is optimal before you put it back in

Neutralizing should be part of the process so it doesn't "mess up" anything. Baking soda works great for that. The process does eat the rock... that's the idea. If ya just want to remove GHA, muratic acid isn't the best choice.

BTW, if you're not needing to remove a lot of organic material, much of the same effect can be had using vinegar. It takes longer but if you're not confident in handling hazardous chemicals, it will work.

bertoni · 09/15/2018, 08:45 PM

A good rinsing of the rock after the muriatic treatment should be fine. The goal is to dissolve the live rock surface, and the live rock itself acts in the same way as baking soda to neutralize the acid. I would neutralize the remaining solution, and ask your municipal sewage department (if applicable) about disposal.

09/12/2018, 04:40 PM	#1
Daddyrawg Registered Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 814	Muriatic acid Baths for my LR in DT Does anyone have experience with Muriatic Acid DIps? I believe my Rocks can use this dip to remove all the phosphates bound to it. I have a 90 gal with about 100 lbs of lR.. was thinking of dipping half at a time allowing the other half in DT to seed the dipped rocks when completed. When I originally set up my tank I bought the rocks directly from LFS that had the rocks sitting in a tank of saltwater. I think If I do this It will help rid of my GHA problem... I run GFO, do weakly water changes, dont run lights too long, tried flukanazole (treatment went good but the GHA appears to slowly be coming back) have snails for CUC.. Just wondering if this is the final straw to solve my prob and can I use half the old LR in DT to seed the new rocks that went through Muriatic acid dips?

09/12/2018, 06:38 PM	#2
sacremon Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 446 Blog Entries: 29	Well, GHA needs more than phosphate to grow. It definitely needs a nitrogen source. What are you nitrates like and how do you control them? __________________ 300DD, MRC MR-3 skimmer with dual Becketts, two Reefbreeders.com value LED fixtures, MRC fluidized reactor with GFO & GAC.

09/12/2018, 08:31 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The muriatic acid dip should kill the GHA on the rock, and you probably can remove the layer with phosphate. A 20 minute dip in 1 part acid added to 10 parts water should be fine. You could consider using lanthanum chloride and GFO to remove the phosphate, as well. That would avoid using toxic chemicals, but might take longer. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

09/13/2018, 09:27 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You can do a lanthanum chloride treatment with or without doing an acid bath. The acid bath will remove organics and should speed the process, though. The question is, how deep is the layer of the rock that has bound phosphate. If the layer is thin, the standard acid bath will remove it. Otherwise, as has been stated, there will be leaching. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

09/15/2018, 08:45 PM	#11
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	A good rinsing of the rock after the muriatic treatment should be fine. The goal is to dissolve the live rock surface, and the live rock itself acts in the same way as baking soda to neutralize the acid. I would neutralize the remaining solution, and ask your municipal sewage department (if applicable) about disposal. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

09/14/2018, 10:34 AM	#9
Akram Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 72	I had the same issue, I removed half the live rock and let it sit in the sun for 2/3 weeks. Then I sprayed with hose to remove unwanted gha. It worked great. Muriatic acid is very strong, you don’t want to mess with it, it will eat up your live rock, and it will mess up your DT chemistry. Unless you neutralize it in freshwater with baking soda, and make sure ph is optimal before you put it back in