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Unread 05/18/2018, 01:25 AM   #1851
Belgian Anthias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livehho View Post
So I went here http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...ter#spc_system but I don't see a detailed procedure with pics about how to build this. Every time I click on the hyperlinks in Baharini's wiki, I get redirected to a page that says "This topic does not exist yet"

I really need to build this thing. My nitrates are crazy high. It's just a mater of time before everything in my saltwater aquarium starts dying.

Is there a detailed procedure on how to build this from scratch? something like this ---> [url]http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/diy/[url]

help !
if you want to build a bio-reactor the previous link can be used, or the guide lines for the DIY project in this Thread, or an other DIY project on the internet. To make a moving bed bio-reactor one just need a container which can be closed watertight., a plastic bottle will do, two filter patches to hold the media in place and a small circulation pump for internal circulation. The pump must be the lowest part to prevent build-up of gasses in the pump. As the system is not pressurized even a PET bottle can be used. One can make it as expensive as one want it to be. Any commercial reactor with internal circulation will do as long the circulation pump is not on top. Very important: The reactor must be big enough!

To use SPC http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...ter#spc_system one does not need a container or reactor as the BADES columns may be hanged up anywhere where is water circulation, the use of a refuge is recommended if more control over the removal rate is wanted. More info about BADES-columns is available on the Dutch pages http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...bades-kolommen This page may be translated to English soon.

The difference between a sulphur denitrator and a BADES reactor is just the way they are managed.
In BADES-reactors the flow is not limited with the intention to keep the reactor anoxic .
In the MAAO system, explained by M.Longouet, flow is NOT limited with the intention to keep the reactor anoxic! http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...ess:bades:maao

A BADES biofilm reactor is used the same way a normal Bio-reactor is used, only the flow is managed in a way to find a balance between nitrification and mixotropic denitrification. DO in the effluent may be +- 2ppm.
http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...o-film_reactor

The effluent of bio-reactors must be aerated! This can be done by the skimmer.


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Unread 05/18/2018, 11:44 AM   #1852
livehho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Anthias View Post
if you want to build a bio-reactor the previous link can be used, or the guide lines for the DIY project in this Thread, or an other DIY project on the internet. To make a moving bed bio-reactor one just need a container which can be closed watertight., a plastic bottle will do, two filter patches to hold the media in place and a small circulation pump for internal circulation. The pump must be the lowest part to prevent build-up of gasses in the pump. As the system is not pressurized even a PET bottle can be used. One can make it as expensive as one want it to be. Any commercial reactor with internal circulation will do as long the circulation pump is not on top. Very important: The reactor must be big enough!

To use SPC http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...ter#spc_system one does not need a container or reactor as the BADES columns may be hanged up anywhere where is water circulation, the use of a refuge is recommended if more control over the removal rate is wanted. More info about BADES-columns is available on the Dutch pages http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...bades-kolommen This page may be translated to English soon.

The difference between a sulphur denitrator and a BADES reactor is just the way they are managed.
In BADES-reactors the flow is not limited with the intention to keep the reactor anoxic .
In the MAAO system, explained by M.Longouet, flow is NOT limited with the intention to keep the reactor anoxic! http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...ess:bades:maao

A BADES biofilm reactor is used the same way a normal Bio-reactor is used, only the flow is managed in a way to find a balance between nitrification and mixotropic denitrification. DO in the effluent may be +- 2ppm.
http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...o-film_reactor

The effluent of bio-reactors must be aerated! This can be done by the skimmer.
Great info. Thanks. Gonna take a close look.

In Frank's reactor, in his instructions he says "The only daily adjustment you have to make is to degass the system from the top valve. About 5 seconds."

I thought these reactors were the set-and-forget type of devices. I'm looking for a minimum maintenance reactor. Maybe change the sulfur media every 2 years but that's it.

About the other one, the BADES biofilm reactor, do you also have to degass it daily? What happens if I go on vacation for a week? Sorry if this question may sound stupid for the experienced aquarist, I'm new to all this.


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Unread 05/19/2018, 07:25 AM   #1853
Belgian Anthias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livehho View Post
Great info. Thanks. Gonna take a close look.

In Frank's reactor, in his instructions he says "The only daily adjustment you have to make is to degass the system from the top valve. About 5 seconds."

I thought these reactors were the set-and-forget type of devices. I'm looking for a minimum maintenance reactor. Maybe change the sulfur media every 2 years but that's it.

About the other one, the BADES biofilm reactor, do you also have to degass it daily? What happens if I go on vacation for a week? Sorry if this question may sound stupid for the experienced aquarist, I'm new to all this.
in't fFank's reactor managed as a denitrator?
M;Longouet ( MAAO method) used tube reactors without internal circulation. The OMZ (oxygen minimum zone) is created in the top of the reactor. Degassing is sometimes necessary.
Due to to high flow rate in a BADES reactor compared to a typical anoxic kept denitrator and the internal circulation, the gasses will not accumulate in top of the reactor. Although it is always good to add the possibility for degassing at the highest point. Only when a high nitrate level has to be reduced in a short period degassing will be necessary. Doing this is not advised. For decreasing the nitrate level only a bit more as the daily nitrate production must be removed daily and it is better the spread the level reduction over a long period.

A BADES reactor is suitable for removing a relative high daily production while maintaining a low nitrate level, when the daily production is more than the desired water content. For example to maintain a nitrate level of 1ppm while producing 2ppm daily the reactor must be able to handle a flow of at least 2x the total system volume daily.

A BADES biofilm reactor is not a denitrator, it is a Bio which simultaneous reduces ammonia and removes the produced nitrate, the flow rate is a lot higher. No degassing is needed but aerating the effluent is very important.
Using BADES columns ( SPC) there is no need for degassing other than circulation.


BADES Systems are not suitable for LNS or VLNS systems as enough ammonium must be produced to keep everything going. The system is able to support a considerable increase of the carrying capacity of the system and bioload while maintaining a very low nitrate level.

One will have to maintenance the calcium carbonate consumption, fill it up and clean it , at least every six months, if the media used does not clog together. A monthly check up is advised. As a reactor has moving parts ( pump) it needs normal regular supervision.
Using BADES columns there are no moving parts but a regular refreshment and cleaning of a roll is normal housekeeping.


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Unread 06/15/2018, 11:30 AM   #1854
Isayso
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Love all this information
But do you guys have any sketch or plans of all these reactors??


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Current Tank Info: Hardware: 125g Reef,Mak4 for return,DIY 20G sump,DIY Beckett Skimmer(AF30) driven by a Mak4,DIY S.Denitrator,DIY Calcium reactor(PM), wavemaker .MJ mods on Swirlestein,Jebao WP 20,Lighting: 60 LEDs, moon lights
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Unread 06/21/2018, 01:06 PM   #1855
Belgian Anthias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isayso View Post
Love all this information
But do you guys have any sketch or plans of all these reactors??
An example of recipients which can be used for a reactor DIY project. In this case bottles used for commercialising fish food. Such bottles are strong enough and very cheap . They have a big lid for easy access.Fitting patches is easy. An in- and out line and a small circulation pump if necessary. That is all.
Bottles of 2; 4 and 5 litres ,


https://www.flickr.com/gp/101132098@N03/m43A3k
https://www.flickr.com/gp/101132098@N03/L2X9wy


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Unread 12/13/2018, 09:30 AM   #1856
ryanuuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Anthias View Post
An example of recipients which can be used for a reactor DIY project. In this case bottles used for commercialising fish food. Such bottles are strong enough and very cheap . They have a big lid for easy access.Fitting patches is easy. An in- and out line and a small circulation pump if necessary. That is all.
Bottles of 2; 4 and 5 litres ,


https://www.flickr.com/gp/101132098@N03/m43A3k
https://www.flickr.com/gp/101132098@N03/L2X9wy

Hi Belgian Anthias,

So the difference between a normal sulfur denitrator and the BADES system is just the flow rate going through the reactor? A higher flow rate that keeps the reactor not anoxic is the goal for BADESS?

Also, I could also just place some sulfur media inside a mesh bag in the sump and it would function similarly as well but not as controlled? Is that correct?



Last edited by ryanuuy; 12/13/2018 at 09:55 AM.
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Unread 12/14/2018, 04:58 AM   #1857
Belgian Anthias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanuuy View Post
Hi Belgian Anthias,

So the difference between a normal sulfur denitrator and the BADES system is just the flow rate going through the reactor? A higher flow rate that keeps the reactor not anoxic is the goal for BADESS?

Also, I could also just place some sulfur media inside a mesh bag in the sump and it would function similarly as well but not as controlled? Is that correct?
Not exactly. The reactor must be big enough . A mesh bag must have the right dimensions. One can also use two filter pads.
I have answered this question.

All info about a BADESS: http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...n:badess:start


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Unread 12/14/2018, 05:14 AM   #1858
Belgian Anthias
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Why BADES

Why installing an autotrophic denitrification capacity using elemental sulphur?

Why nitrates may build up in a well lit aquarium and are not used up by photo-autotrops? Insufficient supply of other building materials may be the reason.

When food is consumed most of the nitrogen is released as ammonia and urea and organic waste. The same time a skimmer removes continuously part of the organics (building materials) in a very selective way leaving polar and hydrophilic compounds behind for remineralisation, the production of building materials. During remineralisation most organic carbon is transformed to inorganic carbon to be reused by autotrophs. But the photo-autotrophs are not able to assimilate the nitrate- nitrogen as the building materials needed are continuously removed.
Ammonia is constantly used by heterotrops and other organisms to grow, and by autotrophs for energy. To reduce the same amount of ammonium the heterotrophs need 40x more building materials as the autotrophs need for nitrification.

The first thing we have to do when starting up an aquarium is installing the carrying capacity which is based on the ability to reduce ammonium. Most reefers have banned the biofilter this way limiting the carrying capacity and lost the comfort of easy adjustment of the carrying capacity.
The second thing to do should be installing the capacity to export the nitrogen overproduction, this when a skimmer is used. This second step is by most reefers looked over and they will try to find a solution when confronted with the fact a skimmer creates unbalance.
Not doing the second step leads to the question: What to do with the nitrate produced by a biofilter? Was it solved it by removing the bio filter!?

When on fora the question is repeated " What to do with nitrates?" the first response will be " try vodka dosing"
But as the reason for nitrate build up is in most cases insufficient supply of some building materials where will the building materials come from to support the fast heterotrophic growth induced by vodka dosing? Well, they will outcompete most organisms who where using the ammonium and building materials before dosing messing up the created balance and most important will remove the installed autotrophic carrying capacity. Bacteria prefer ammonia- nitrogen for fast growth. And heterotrophic assimilation does not remove the nitrogen from the system but stores it for later reuse.
This is not what I want!

In the second step one has to decide what to do with nitrogen overproduction.
Provide the building materials needed for photo-autotrophic growth for supporting the system or for removal by harvesting?
Or are we going to remove the nitrogen directly as nitrogen gas? Or both?

We where looking for a way to export nitrogen overproduction and the same time will give full control over the nitrate level and make it possible to close the nitrogen cycle in the system The presence of nitrate is very important for the biological balance in a closed system.
We found the solution in autotrophic nitrate reduction by sulphur bacteria.
As we where looking out for a safe and reliable way to use the BADES process we have deleted anoxic kept denitrators from the possible solutions.
Starting from the MAAO method and the knowledge in any biofilm denitrification can take place our research lead us to the application of sulphur columns and a BADES biofilm reactor.

All info about a BADESS: http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku...n:badess:start

A reactor as proposed in this building project can be used in a BADES System. The condition is that the reactor is NOT kept anoxic and the reactor is big enough to support the system.


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Unread 08/13/2020, 10:08 AM   #1859
MilesJT
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Pressure.

Hi, can someone explain about De-gas process?
Do we need to do it everyday?

I mean, I use to own a Sulphur Reactor, from company called KORAL or something. I don't remember seeing a de-gas valve or instruction about to performing a de-gas.

I am trying to do a DIY version this time.

But it needed, does anyone ever found out the pressure inside the reactor?
I mean, can we use Hot-water Pressure Relieve valve to de-gas it?

I got a few titanium pressure relief valve... of 10bars.
But it can also be order in all spec of pressure from 1bar up to 10bars.

I figure, if we could use this, wouldn't it be released it own gas from time to time once the pressure build up high enough?


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Unread 08/13/2020, 10:23 AM   #1860
Isayso
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I used to own one too.
I had to de-gas every other day,
I had a j-quest valve fitting
On top of the Lid ,
The idea of a degassing valve is great
But I don't know if the pressure inside will reach 1 bar or not before causing
Damage to the reactor,
.
If you are able to install it
Is a great feature,


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Current Tank Info: Hardware: 125g Reef,Mak4 for return,DIY 20G sump,DIY Beckett Skimmer(AF30) driven by a Mak4,DIY S.Denitrator,DIY Calcium reactor(PM), wavemaker .MJ mods on Swirlestein,Jebao WP 20,Lighting: 60 LEDs, moon lights
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Unread 08/14/2020, 04:51 AM   #1861
Belgian Anthias
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Gas saturation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesJT View Post
Hi, can someone explain about De-gas process?
Do we need to do it everyday?

I mean, I use to own a Sulphur Reactor, from company called KORAL or something. I don't remember seeing a de-gas valve or instruction about to performing a de-gas.

I am trying to do a DIY version this time.

But it needed, does anyone ever found out the pressure inside the reactor?
I mean, can we use Hot-water Pressure Relieve valve to de-gas it?

I got a few titanium pressure relief valve... of 10bars.
But it can also be order in all spec of pressure from 1bar up to 10bars.

I figure, if we could use this, wouldn't it be released it own gas from time to time once the pressure build up high enough?
Normally a BADES reactor is not pressurized!
Only if you restrict the outflow, pressure may build up but that is not good husbandry as one does cut the feeding pump by which it may heat up and use a lot more energy. Pressure in the reactor will lead to lower gas saturation and gas buildup. Normally we use a closed-loop on the in- and outflow of the feeding pump, this way the pump always can turn at normal capacity and the system does not become pressurized as the flow is controlled using a valve in the closed-loop of the feeding pump.

In some commercial reactor setups the circulating pump is the highest point by which degassing is not needed. Normally the outflow of a BADES reactor is always aerated by which all gasses are driven out. In big systems, where a lot of gasses are produced, such setup may lead to pump cavitation if centrifugal pumps are used. Such pumps are often not self-priming.

One can make the outflow of the reactor the highest point by which gasses can not build up in the reactor. One can also make a degassing chamber on top of the reactor with a plastic bottle which one can empty from time to time when gasses accumulate in the bottle.

If you are planning to use an SD at a drip flow rate , It is probbaly best to use an accumulation bottle which may warn you for HS production taking place, this when the gasses are drained.

Using high flow BADES applications degassing is not needed as only the daily nitrogen overproduction or a bit more is removed daily producing a limited amount of gasses. Gasses produced will leave the reactor with the flow. As the reactor is NOT pressurized gas oversaturation is limited.

if closed reactors are used for BADES applications I advise to always aerate the outflow before it may enter the main system. This for stabilizing pH and export CO2 and N2, and for to oxidize produced HS if anoxic kept SD reactors are used or and 0 nitrate is targetted in the effluent
In seawater HS can reach a toxic level before you may smell it by forming H2S.

I do NOT advise the use of anoxic kept SD in live support systems. I do advise NOT to target 0 nitrate effluent using a BADES reactor as this will lead to increased sulfate reduction, ammonia and HS production. Making use of BADES correctly all this is avoided.


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