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Old 03/26/2020, 12:02 PM   #1
Fish559
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Flame angel question

I've had a flame angel for about 2 years. Great fish. Not too mean, doesn't nip, eats like a pig. It's probably the fattest fish I've ever had!

My question about flame angel coloration. She (I actually have no idea if it's a she, but her name is Princess, so she's a she to me!) started off nice and red, but she's much more orange in the middle now. Do all flames gradually become more orange? Is it a regional thing? I don't know if she came from Hawaii or Marshall Islands, etc.

Do some flames keep that brilliant red their whole lives?


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Old 03/26/2020, 02:27 PM   #2
albano
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Unlikely Hawaiian... usually Marshall Is or Christmas Is (shipped thru Hawaii)


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Old 03/26/2020, 03:00 PM   #3
LargeAngels
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IME even true Hawaiian flame angels donít keep their red coloration.

Unless you paid a lot for it or you got it from the diver it wonít be a true Hawaiian flame. They are rare and far between.


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Old 03/26/2020, 09:28 PM   #4
OrionN
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My angel keep their color. I think it have to do with how good the food you gave them, and the amount.These are accurate coloration of my Flame angels


Female



Male



Male Nuptial coloration during spawn



Attached Images
File Type: jpg FlameAngel2019080501MaleNuptialResized.jpg (49.5 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg FlameAngel2019082511Maleresized.jpg (65.0 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg FlameAngel2020032101Femaleresized.jpg (104.1 KB, 31 views)
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Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip
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Old 03/27/2020, 03:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionN View Post
My angel keep their color. I think it have to do with how good the food you gave them, and the amount.These are accurate coloration of my Flame angels


Female



Male



Male Nuptial coloration during spawn
My theory is that keeping them in pairs might be the trick to keep them colorful.
A single will become a single male and without any girls around to impress he will become a slob and stop caring about his appearance.

Food and water quality, as well as the tank colors (algae-covered rocks vs. colorful corals), definitely also have an influence.


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Old 03/27/2020, 05:22 AM   #6
alton
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My first Flame which I had for 5+ years from Vanuatu lost its coloring after a few years. But at that time all I fed was mysis and brine. Today my Flames get LRS which contains a lot more nutrition along with spiralina brine and nori.


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Old 03/27/2020, 05:27 AM   #7
OrionN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
My theory is that keeping them in pairs might be the trick to keep them colorful.
A single will become a single male and without any girls around to impress he will become a slob and stop caring about his appearance.

Food and water quality, as well as the tank colors (algae-covered rocks vs. colorful corals), definitely also have an influence.
I think you are right. I have a lot of wrasses. One thing I do to/for my fish is to put a larger mirror, 24X12 inches, on the tank once or twice a week for 30+ minutes. This really get the males excited and showing their color. I am doing this on the though that fish need stimulation also. In the wild, they will have territorial encroachment. This is part of their natural behavior and over all will be good for them.
Good for taken pictures too, but they are moving very fast during these showoff. A good fast cameral is needed. iPhone just not adequate to really use to take action pictures. Too long of a delay from pushing the button to the time the camera actually take the picture.
I think this, and good food, really help my fishes develop and keep their coloration. An example is my Blue throat Fairy wrasse. This species is known to loose color in captivity according to many people experiences. Here is my fish, initial picture and after 8 months or so in my tank
8/16/2018


4/4/2019



Attached Images
File Type: jpg BluethroatFairy2018081601resized.jpg (38.7 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg BlueThroatFairy2019040401resized.jpg (33.7 KB, 29 views)
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Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip
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Old 03/27/2020, 05:34 AM   #8
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Question about the Flame Angel. I heard specimens collected from certain places do a lot better than those from other places. Also heard they need more of an established system than the Coral Beauty and some other species or they’ll perish?

P.S. Question about Centropyge in general. Many people say they practically need a well-established system with sufficient algae growth and copepods. Have you found that to be true? In the absence of a lot of algae for them to graze on in a new system, can I temporarily supplement that with a commercial food that contains algae / plankton or even feed them veggies? (But pesticides though)


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Old 03/27/2020, 05:46 AM   #9
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Question about the Flame Angel. I heard specimens collected from certain places do a lot better than those from other places. Also heard they need more of an established system than the Coral Beauty and some other species or theyíll perish?

P.S. Question about Centropyge in general. Many people say they practically need a well-established system with sufficient algae growth and copepods. Have you found that to be true? In the absence of a lot of algae for them to graze on in a new system, can I temporarily supplement that with a commercial food that contains algae / plankton or even feed them veggies? (But pesticides though)
I know you live in China.
China is not the US, but if you have pesticides in your food, you got a whole lot more problems than just the fish tank and the fish.
I believe in a natural system, one seeded with a lot of fauna and flora. This really keep the system stable. If you set up a new tank with nothing more than dead dry rock, and depends on the bacterial for cycle, nothing will do really well for a long time. You need to you really need to use largely live rock, or at least seeded the tank with real, good live rock and live sand.
These artificial rock, or mine rock (even if they were really reef millions of years ago) are not anywhere near as good as true live rock. The differences is in the porosity of the rock, which terrestrial source rock, or manufacture rock does not have.


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Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip
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Old 03/27/2020, 05:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I know you live in China.
China is not the US, but if you have pesticides in your food, you got a whole lot more problems than just the fish tank and the fish.
I believe in a natural system, one seeded with a lot of fauna and flora. This really keep the system stable. If you set up a new tank with nothing more than dead dry rock, and depends on the bacterial for cycle, nothing will do really well for a long time. You need to you really need to use largely live rock, or at least seeded the tank with real, good live rock and live sand.
These artificial rock, or mine rock (even if they were really reef millions of years ago) are not anywhere near as good as true live rock. The differences is in the porosity of the rock, which terrestrial source rock, or manufacture rock does not have.
I plan to get the best, real live rock I can find. Iím not saying the veggies will necessarily contain pesticides, Iím just worried. Perhaps itís good to wait 4-6 months before adding a dwarf angel like the Flame (or any), and just add in my other fish first? (Clowns, Damsels, Yellow Watchman Goby, Royal Gramma)


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Old 03/27/2020, 06:18 AM   #11
OrionN
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My experiences, with Flame, CB, Cherub, Flame back, Fireball, Midnight angels, are that they are hardy fish. I rarely put fish in DT straight on arrival. I do have a 40 gal reef DT full of Fauna and Flora, lots of algae and pods and worms. I often place my wrasses and other fish in there to get them use to captivity, feeding ect..
Once they are comfortable there and eating and gain weight, I capture and release them to my DT. I never really have problem with most normal fish. If they eat, they will do fine. Occasionally I have fish that won't eat, and I loose them. Lost 3/4 Potter Leopard wrasse, 3/7 Black leopard wrasse, lost a Convict tang. These are the lost that stand out in my mind lately.
I lost 2/4 of all the Regal angels I bought, but lately Alton have been helping me with these and he got the last three Regal have been doing great under his care before he send them to me.


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Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip
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Old 03/27/2020, 07:19 AM   #12
Zionas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionN View Post
My experiences, with Flame, CB, Cherub, Flame back, Fireball, Midnight angels, are that they are hardy fish. I rarely put fish in DT straight on arrival. I do have a 40 gal reef DT full of Fauna and Flora, lots of algae and pods and worms. I often place my wrasses and other fish in there to get them use to captivity, feeding ect..
Once they are comfortable there and eating and gain weight, I capture and release them to my DT. I never really have problem with most normal fish. If they eat, they will do fine. Occasionally I have fish that won't eat, and I loose them. Lost 3/4 Potter Leopard wrasse, 3/7 Black leopard wrasse, lost a Convict tang. These are the lost that stand out in my mind lately.
I lost 2/4 of all the Regal angels I bought, but lately Alton have been helping me with these and he got the last three Regal have been doing great under his care before he send them to me.


All good. So you donít really Quarantine? What do you mean by having lots of flora and fauna? I know fauna probably= corals, fish and invertebrates but fauna youíre referring to the algae?

I can do a 15 gallon quarantine tank at most but I canít do methods like the tank transfer. Does a quarantine tank have to be cycled?

And what do you think of the Half Black, Fisherís, Pacific Pygmy and Rusty angelfishes in terms of their ease of care?

Sorry to bombard you with questions.


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Old 03/28/2020, 10:32 AM   #13
OrionN
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I have a 40 gal breeder that I set up, deep sand bed with really good live rock and live sand. It is full of macroalgale that get harvest. This tank normally do not have fish in it. Only a few junk coral and a lot of algae and pods and worms. I use this system to acclimated my fish and also QT clams, anemones and corals prior to put them in DT. Here are a few of the picture I took so I can answer your question.








Attached Images
File Type: jpg QT2020032801.jpg (103.9 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg QT2020032802.jpg (92.8 KB, 15 views)
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Minh

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Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip
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Old 03/28/2020, 10:40 AM   #14
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Here is a video of my Flame angel spawning in my 65 gal tank at my office. Most of these fish including the PBT and the flame angels currently living in my home system 320 gal DT.
I ordered the flame angels from Live Aquaria, I ordered 3 small ones but 1 was DOA. The two paired up in my 65 gal reef.
To me, pairing flame angels is about as hard as pairing Percula clowns, put two young ones together and you get a pair with time.
https://youtu.be/6b8BvtwiGzs


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My homepage is my album here at Reef Central

Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip
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