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Unread 03/30/2014, 01:52 PM   #51
karimwassef
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the older method had too many loose fibers. this is much neater.
to cut excess, I used a wire cutter/snip. the rock snaps, but doesnt fracture due to the cloth.


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Unread 03/30/2014, 02:01 PM   #52
karimwassef
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interesting data point. I use an outside tub for the wash and to get the pH to start to drop with water changes.

After a couple of cycles, I put the concrete in the tank without flow.

The water in my 380 gal spiked quickly to 9.5... daily water changes brought it down to 8.5 but was wasteful.

so I turned on my skimmer and surge, even though its only running fresh water.
within an hour, the increasing pH reversed from an increasing at 8.8 to an immediate decline without water changes. It's at 8.2 after 6 hrs and is continuing to drop.

that's the data...does anyone know why?


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Unread 03/30/2014, 11:17 PM   #53
karimwassef
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 photo pH_zpsd3265a77.jpg


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Unread 03/31/2014, 12:54 AM   #54
karimwassef
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Any chemistry experts out there?

Why would protein skimming reduce pH in a tank with concrete curing?

High pH is an abundance of OH- hydroxide ions... Protein skimming expands the water/air surface by many orders of magnitude... That would allow the hydroxide to ???

Or maybe it increase the oxygen content and that ???


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Unread 03/31/2014, 07:20 PM   #55
karimwassef
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Ok. In the tank 48 hours after casting:

 photo 0177179D-D9C8-4025-B7E0-C0FE76D9E71B_zpszztfm7uf.jpg

 photo 1A202DA3-EBA5-4417-93A4-11CB7FC695DF_zpsivwf2ghv.jpg

 photo A04CEC40-050C-4504-96C4-F05124FD83D9_zps7pvhiqpq.jpg


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Unread 03/31/2014, 07:21 PM   #56
karimwassef
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Monitoring the pH.. Immediately began rising after adding the new platform


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Unread 03/31/2014, 08:46 PM   #57
sandyland
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Nice job. Looks like a lot of work but its really paying off.
I love the rock pipes simple solution to a age old problem.


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Unread 03/31/2014, 09:16 PM   #58
karimwassef
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It's not a lot of work once the ingredients are washed.

Actually, the new shake and bake method is awesomely fast.



Last edited by karimwassef; 03/31/2014 at 09:28 PM.
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Unread 04/01/2014, 05:23 AM   #59
karimwassef
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Now that I think I've got the technique right, I'd like to ask for your inputs: do you have or have you seen a beautiful aqua scape that you think I should try to make using this method? If so, please post the images or links.


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Unread 04/02/2014, 12:01 AM   #60
karimwassef
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Adding the fresh concrete increased the pH, but it wasn't the same spike as before.
Instead of an increase from 8 to 9.5, it barely got up to 8.4 from 8.2... and is gradually declining, currently at 8.3

 photo pH2_zpse2cb717b.png

I'm sure the skimmer and surge are curtailing the pH increase, but I still don't understand the chemistry behind it.


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Unread 04/02/2014, 05:18 PM   #61
karimwassef
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Anyone have any ideas on concrete chemistry? Very puzzling.


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Unread 04/02/2014, 08:03 PM   #62
Laardvark
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Concrete has lime which is rather alkaline. IIRC, as concrete cures Ca(OH)2 is produced which is also alkaline. Either or both of those could account for the spike in pH. Over time absorption of CO2 slowly brings the pH down, although I think this is a very long process so not sure if that accounts for the drop in pH you're seeing.


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Unread 04/02/2014, 08:06 PM   #63
karimwassef
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Would absorption of O2 also have the same effect?


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Unread 04/02/2014, 08:06 PM   #64
brackishdude
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I don't keep a reef, instead a fish only brackish tank, and Ive always felt that the homemade rock designs folks here often create that primarily function as bland coral perches sell short the potential to create interesting and functional rock formations in their own right.

I have considered a composite like yours using plastic screening instead of cloth, but I really like your idea, being able to precisely lay a cloth-thin layer of a dense concrete mix ,for strength and structural form, as a framework on which to build a masterpiece!

I imagine using the concrete cotton, laid over/under /around a complex 3D framework of pvc, stiff plastic hardware cloth and egg crate, and supplemented with the lighter mix for bulk where needed, all built within a plywood frame mimicking the size of the tank, with sand/oystershell/crushed coral for the mold (and balloons/salt/rubber gloves etc)

unfortunately I have a better imagination than artistic flair. Or time.

This is looking great. keep the pics coming.


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Unread 04/02/2014, 09:45 PM   #65
karimwassef
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I agree. The method has tremendous potential in the right hands.
I don't think I can do it justice but I'll try. The platforms are just to hide the overflow. Now I need to aquascape the connective structures.


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Unread 04/02/2014, 09:46 PM   #66
karimwassef
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Doing this solo is also very hard and limits execution. I can dream up a lot of shapes, but making them real needs more than 2 cement covered hands...


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Unread 04/02/2014, 11:59 PM   #67
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Here's what I'll try to do:
 photo 78EB50A9-FFD1-4105-BC43-96B7429A815C-139-00000009433AA43A_zps9bf8a061.jpg

 photo 505E75E1-55EE-4065-B24A-75F686975A7F-139-00000009415B4C7B_zps6a887ea5.jpg

 photo 4340F1E7-9B31-4E3D-BC12-F2D95E7D5916-139-000000093A27BD8E_zps423909a9.jpg

 photo C6F65EC4-4DF7-40A5-B50D-EFDAC0336645-139-00000009346EA4B7_zps5c739025.jpg


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Unread 04/03/2014, 07:29 AM   #68
clay12340
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Could you take some more close ups of the overflow/concrete ledges that are covering it? It isn't making sense to me how you're covering them. Are you just hanging the concrete pieces off of the overflow itself?


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Unread 04/03/2014, 07:41 AM   #69
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Yes. The ledges have a PVC backing frame with PVC connectors cut into hangers that clip onto the weir of the overflow. I'll take more pics.

 photo 981142f3-1d04-4766-b3ed-62deca83ab9c_zps675cdfd0.jpg

 photo 1BA4FEA4-F5CD-4803-B8A3-8A133BDE8ADE_zpstwfedwmx.jpg



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Unread 04/03/2014, 07:46 AM   #70
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This model of my tank shows the weir & overflow for reference:

 photo 72895721-9203-4921-94D1-50310D2EA081-139-000000095061E123_zpsb130e29b.jpg


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Unread 04/03/2014, 11:03 AM   #71
clay12340
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That makes more sense now. Did you do anything to determine the maximum weight that the overflow could support? I've been wondering how much weight I can safely hang off of the coast to coast that I'm procrastinating on siliconing in, or if I'd need to brace it first.


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Unread 04/03/2014, 02:29 PM   #72
karimwassef
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The overflow is 1/2" thick glass and forms a rectangle box 9" x 6" for the 96" run. The tank is also euro braced with a 4" overlapping lip of 1/2" glass all around the tank. The tank itself is 3/4" glass. It is braced by the tank sides and back making it very stiff glass box with only about 2.5" of opening between the euro brace lip and the weir. It's pretty solid and the platforms are not real rock. The PVC eggcrate cloth concrete composite is very light in water and is probably about 20lbs in air.

For reference, the empty TV cardboard box I was using during the forming could hold it up without issue.

Since the overhang back lies flat against the glass, there is no moment force on the lip, just the direct downwards force.



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Unread 04/03/2014, 05:20 PM   #73
karimwassef
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Ignore the plastic coral props

 photo 5F0CC3E7-6EC5-4A98-B879-E53EFB001C70_zps7jrkgiiv.jpg

 photo B62AE0F1-06C8-4C86-BA8A-8FC8D94D3C02_zpsmsxqcm4r.jpg


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Unread 04/03/2014, 05:36 PM   #74
karimwassef
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Here's the view from behind the tank

 photo 631BAFD9-326F-44B6-8D47-974088A96578_zpsjqmluyy5.jpg


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Unread 04/03/2014, 05:40 PM   #75
karimwassef
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Here's the skimming beast that I accuse of reducing my pH

Bottom:
 photo 9E7D29B4-3B1C-4376-8B20-19BE24BF5E49_zpsmd2ppusp.jpg

Top:
 photo 77A69A0F-AD0A-454A-A0E0-D72B12A554D3_zpsds7ytdhc.jpg

It's only running half high and with fresh water


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