My 400G Through-wall "deceptively deep" tank

[Spaced Cowboy]

Well, it doesn't matter to me which end the door is from the perspective of the fish-room, so I'm fine with moving the door (now that it's signed off). Hopefully that's the last wrinkle in the plans...

[nuxx]

Originally Posted by Spaced Cowboy

One of the things I've not had to worry about before is humidity - with the tanks up until now being in th (large) living-room, there's not been any issue, at least as far as I can tell.

Now, though, there's going to be a lot of water in a fairly small room (10'7" by 5'8"). I already have a ceiling-mounted bathroom-style dehumidifier that I can install, but I'm not convinced about their utility. I already have some of those in the house, and to be honest we just switch them on and off manually, I don't trust their built-in automatic systems to do the job.

What I want is a system that can monitor the humidity, and switch the fan on/off depending on humidity level. I was looking at this humidistat. I expect the electrician can link the ceiling humidifier up to the humidistat output socket (maybe via a junction box ?)

Any thoughts, or how do people already manage this sort of thing ?

Cheers
Simon

Always thought humidity was a non-issue... until our first winter.

Started seeing pools at the base of all our windows, then a bit of mold.

Ran out and bought two dehumidifiers and those cleared up all the humidity issues in the house. Pretty annoying to run them all the time, but with summer coming up, I'm just going to set them to run if humidity gets over a certain level.

[Spaced Cowboy]

So, I'm going to get a Bubble King Supermarin skimmer for the new tank, but I'm dithering over which (either the '200 or the '250).

The water load will be ~450 gallons by the time you include the sump, which falls naturally into the '200 skimmer "gallonage" of (200 - 530g). However, I've never found that skimmer manufacturers are entirely accurate with their ratings. I have no experience with Royal Exclusiv so I don't know if it's the case here...

The '250 is rated for 260-790 gallons. I've never found that going for the over-rated skimmer is a bad idea, and it's "only" another $150 or so. I'm tempted to go for the '250, but do I need to ?

Cheers
Simon

[Spaced Cowboy]

So here's how I'm envisioning the water circuit in and around the tank to look like:

It starts off with the main tank draining to the sump via the BA overflow, and water being pumped back up from the sump to the display tank.

The next part involves the water-change system, which will periodically take a gallon of water from the main tank and deposit it into Q1 - the first quarantine tank - while putting a gallon of NSW into the display sump. Water then flows through all the Qx tanks eventually reaching the quarantine sump, which pumps it back up to Q1.

Optionally (assuming I'm trying to match salinity for example), I'll be able to divert any water designated for Q1 into Q4 (Q4-Q9 will always be at the same salinity as the main tank, whereas Q1,2,3 will be matched to whatever the incoming salinity is, and slowly changed over time into the same salinity as Q4..9. I'll use a liter-meter to do that simply by slowly removing the existing water and replacing either with NFW (to lower salinity) or NSW (to raise salinity).

I think this does a few things for me:

• Gives me an isolated system to quarantine things in
• Makes it easy to move from quarantine to display (since its using the same water)
• Makes it easy to gradually change the salinity of the incoming water the fish comes in to that of the display tank
• Provides a constant source of good water for the quarantine tanks.
• Should one system fail, the other provides a backup while we're getting the failed one up to speed again.

It does mean that there's a shared quarantine system (so anything in there that has it will probably spread to others) but unless you have multiple independent closed systems, that's always a risk. I don't have the space for that.

Simon.

[Spaced Cowboy]

So at the moment I'm pretty much sitting waiting for the tank in the shed to cycle properly before moving fish over and breaking down the old tank. To help with managing the cycle, I got a Seneye Reef which monitors Ammonia amongst other things. I have to soak the slide in the water for 48 hours before installing. I'll post a pic or two once it's up and running.

There's been a few large shrimp decomposing in there for about a week now, and I'm still not reading any NH3 to speak of but we'll see. I did move some rock from my display tank to the holding tank - perhaps the bacteria has already established itself. Again, we'll see. I have a few weeks yet before my hand will be forced.

I also got a new skimmer for the big tank. Since no-one chimed in on whether the '200 would be sufficient, I followed my gut feeling and went for a '250 ...

... and the humidistat arrived ...

I wanted to make sure that the humidistat would be ok for the dehumidifier, was asking the electrician a few questions, and got told[*] "Stop asking silly questions! Of course we can do that..." So, I guess it's ok

Also got a ping from Miracles that the tank is together, and a promise of pictures on Monday. They're going to do a leak-test on it for me (they don't usually do that) before shipping since I'm so far away, that ought to happen on June 8th. Hopefully shipping will be soon after and it'll be on its way down to me.

Just got to wait now. Waiting is hard.

Simon.



[*] I have a long working relationship with this guy, we get along great - each giving and getting as much as the other.

[Socaltoaz]

I'm getting a royal exclusiv skimmer as well and was debating between the 400 and 500. Actually ended up speaking to the owner- Klaus- and his take was that skimmer selection is based on size as well as biooload. For example a 400 gallon tank running sea horses will have a much different biooload than a 400 gallon tank with 50 predatory fish. I think you did good with the 250. My equipment arrives in a month or so.

[Sonicboom]

great build so far, tagging along!

[NeverlosT]

Very cool build so far, I cant wait to see the tank and the finished product!

Remember sound proofing in the barrier wall between the fish room and the viewing room and vapor barrier/moisture resistant materials in the fish room, and a drain if you can swing one!

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Sonicboom

great build so far, tagging along!

Thanks Hope you enjoy the ride as much as I am doing

Simon

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally Posted by NeverlosT

Very cool build so far, I cant wait to see the tank and the finished product!

Thanks it's been planned for months now, and it's starting to feel as though it's finally all coming together. Exciting times

Originally Posted by NeverlosT

Remember sound proofing in the barrier wall between the fish room and the viewing room and vapor barrier/moisture resistant materials in the fish room, and a drain if you can swing one!

Drain - yep, there's going to be a (small) sink in the rear right corner of the fish room. I've told the plumber that I want to be able to insert tubes into piping to drain, and they're going to put a shower-like drain in the floor too. The whole floor will be lined as if it's a shower.

Vapor barrier etc. - again, going with the shower theme, it's going to be plastic, then cement board or whatever code requires for a shower, then 3 coats of gloss paint.

Sound-proofing - here I have to compromise, and in fact it's one of my main worries. The tank is going to stick through the wall, and I don't want 4" of the precious 6" of protrusion being wasted going through a standard wall's thickness... So there will only be a cement board layer between the tank and the living room.

In fact it's worse than that - the stand will form part of the support structure for the wall, if you look carefully, you can see flanges on the wall side of the stand, to attach the stand to the wall. One thing I have done is make the flanges be 2" away from the wall, and I intend to get rubber pads to go between the 2x4's that the wall will be screwed to, and the stand itself. That way there ought to be some decoupling.

What I really don't want is to turn the wall into a speaker, with a 50hz hum being amplified throughout the house. On the other hand, I really don't want to lose 4" of my precious 6" of overhang as well.

This one is definitely something I'll be keeping my eye on...

Simon.

[dave.m]

There's a kind of green wall board that's made especially for wet areas like kitchens and bathrooms. For your plumbing drain, tell the plumber to put in a stand pipe. He will understand what that is.

Dave.M

[Swope2bc]

For a bit of extra cost, I've been told you can get an acoustic Sheetrock. Perhaps for your outer layer, rather than standard 1/2" you could acquire the type that doubles as sound barrier.

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally Posted by dave.m

There's a kind of green wall board that's made especially for wet areas like kitchens and bathrooms. For your plumbing drain, tell the plumber to put in a stand pipe. He will understand what that is.

Dave.M

Thanks Dave. I'm pretty sure that green wall board is the same stuff they used when they renovated both bathrooms recently. They told me they'd use the same for this room too. It was actually their idea to go for the external humidistat, so they're aware of the water issue.

And "Stand pipe" is the term I was struggling to remember this morning (yet to partake of the morning coffee) when I was trying to describe the conversation with the plumber. Cheers

Simon

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Swope2bc

For a bit of extra cost, I've been told you can get an acoustic Sheetrock. Perhaps for your outer layer, rather than standard 1/2" you could acquire the type that doubles as sound barrier.

That's an interesting idea. I'll definitely pass that along to the builders, thanks

I haven't really talked to them yet about sound insulation, but it is high on my list...

Cheers,
Simon

[Spaced Cowboy]

So, Miracles sent through a few shots of the tank now that they've started to put it together...

I made one order-change earlier, which was to make all 4 sides starfire glass. There actually is one more small change to be made on the back - the overflow box needs to go all the way to the end on the left hand side, to better fit the bean-animal overflow returns. If you look at some of the earlier designs, there isn't much room for maneuver in how the drains flow water down to the sump. To try and minimize the loading on the back panel, Miracles reduced the size of the overflow, but I was actually using the space they removed for the BeanAnimal drain elbows.

Anyway, a telephone conversation later it was all sorted out and Miracles will put a new overflow box on the back with the correct space for the drains Derek is a good person to deal with - once he saw the issue, it was just "lets do this properly, no 'fix', we'll just replace it".

Looks like I'm still on-target for the 29th, although we're cutting it a *bit* fine now. It ought to arrive on the 27th in the depot. I'll have it picked up on 28th and then I'll be on vacation on 29th for a week...

Simon.

[Sonicboom]

Gorgeous, I wish you the best and hope your design works because I am suggesting it to a friend..lol

[Spaced Cowboy]

So I originally had 2 closed loops plumbed into the tank, and although I've wanted to try them for a while, they do incur more risk (even if only a small delta) over not drilling holes in the tank. The problem was what to replace the CL's with...

Enter the Maxspect gyre. This has several advantages:

• If it needs cleaning, it's a lot easier to take down and clean. The gyre just lifts out of the tank and I can do what I need to do. The CL needs to be isolated (since the outlets were in the bottom of the tank) and it's a much larger job.
• Hiding all 8 of the CL outlets was going to be an issue. Again, I'm going for the "pocket of ocean poking out into the room" look, so I don't want anything man-made easy to see in the display. The gyre can sit horizontally above the viewing rectangle of the tank, and work its magic from there.
• Power consumption. The (2) Reeflo Dart Gold pumps I was planning on using for the closed loops (1 pump per CL) take about 145W each at full bore. The Gyre takes about 1/3 of that at just under 50W each when switched to maximum output. Considering these pumps will be running 24/7, it's important to get the leanest and meanest pumps I can.

One thing I'd heard was that there was about to be a new Gyre model with a controller that worked with the Apex, so I was holding off buying anything until that resolved itself. However it seems they've just made it (the 'Icecap' controller) work with all the Gyres ...

.. so I upped and bought a couple of the XF-150 gyres and the extra-strong magnets that I'm going to need on my tank, which is 3/4" thick glass...

Since I'll be mounting one at each end of the tank, I may need to find some extension cables for the controller wires, but that's a problem for another day On a complete tangent, the gyres come in rather nice metal boxes, it's a bit like unpacking an Apple product

Simon

[peterpun]

Nice drawings! Do you have prior knowledge using 3D modelling software before using Sketchup? Just curious because I'm planning to learn Sketchup and wondering how steep the learning curve is. Thanks

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally Posted by peterpun

Nice drawings! Do you have prior knowledge using 3D modelling software before using Sketchup? Just curious because I'm planning to learn Sketchup and wondering how steep the learning curve is. Thanks

Thanks, I've been planning this for a while, and for me it's as important to put effort into this stage as it is later on.

I actually found Sketchup pretty easy to use. It's important to get the group functionality down for complex things, and download the 'rotate group around axis' extensions. Other than that, draw a plan view, use the Pull tool to make it 3D, use the ruler to provide you with guides, and always snap to the guides. Repeat as needed, either adding or removing (delete key) regions to/from your model.

Simon.

[Spaced Cowboy]

So, the day has come, and as I write it's gone. The tank inhabitants have been moved over to the temporary tank in the shed, and the old tank starts its official retirement; at least until someone else buys it, and phoenix-like it will burst into life again. Hopefully.

Anyway, when the time came, I switched off everything apart from an extension cable to pump out the water...

and (after removing the fish, the rock, and as many snails/crabs as I could find) the tank looked like this...

... before I pumped out all the water. It's cloudy as hell because moving those rocks stirred up a *lot* of debris.

I stopped the pump when there was about 1cm of water left above the sand, and left it there until this evening, when the nocturnal-type snails make their move. I found another 40 or so snails making their way up the glass to the water boundary.

After the water was out, I also found a blue chromis that I thought I'd lost just swimming around in the overflow, so that was good - getting him out was a bit of a nightmare, but eventually we got him

I'll make one more pass before I go to bed, and one more again in the morning, but thereafter, I'm afraid it's "for reals" for anything that played dead that long...

Simon.

[Spaced Cowboy]

So, a lot of hard work emptying sand and cleaning later and the tank is ready for sale (see here if interested). It's amazing how, when you've had the noise of a tank in the background for 7 years or so, the absence of said noise really hits you...

Anyway, I've had a productive weekend, the fish/crabs/snails are moved across to the temporary tank, the old tank has been broken down and cleaned for sale, and I ache all over... I'm getting too old for all this [grin]

Simon.

[LNell]

Perhaps I missed this, but what specifically do you plan on making with the 3D printer?

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally Posted by LNell

Perhaps I missed this, but what specifically do you plan on making with the 3D printer?

The sky is practically the limit, but here's a few ideas to get started with

- The spray-bar jets are one thing I want to use it for, to try and build in a penductor in the limited space I have. Store-bought ones would be visible.

- At the right side of the overflow, I intend to build a plastic insert tailor made for the overflow which will take a 0.25" feed from the return, and jet it along the bottom of the overflow, to clear out any detritus that might settle there due to all the drainage being on the left side.

- I'm going to be using filter socks, and the mesh bags without support at the top are a lot cheaper than the ones with the built-in rings. I'm planning on making something I can put the mesh bag on and it'll work to hold it in place

- I've become quite keen on those magnetic cable/pipe/tube holders, but they're really expensive. I want to buy a pack of 50 of so rare earth magnetic cubes (which are pretty cheap) that I can embed into custom supports for tubing, prove holders etc.

- There's also the structural stuff. I'll be using it to build custom brackets to hold the TVs in place along the back, and the shadow-boxes along the side.

I'm also expecting there to be moments along the way when I think to myself, "Wouldn't it be cool if I could just do *this*", and now have the ability to do exactly *that*

Simon.

[tfp]

this is gonna be a sweet system!

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally Posted by tfp

this is gonna be a sweet system!

Thanks And welcome to my build thread

Simon