Continuous feeding NPS filter feeders - Page 9

Aquabacs · 03/08/2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

Thx you!

A couple more questions:

1. Seems like most of you guys end up using BRS dosing pump? Would the pinching action smash / destroy the larger food particle like Roti-Feast?

Using the GHL/Profilux dosing system but other systems can be used to provide similar results but can require more refrigerator room. Would have minimal concern over the pinchin of the rotifers

2. Oil that came with most liquid food I fed stop the skimmer for a few hours, wouldn't continuously feeding throughout the day almost means no skimming most of the time? Have you notice any significant difference in skimmate production?

Have adjusted the system to dose feeds 4 times a day. With reducing the intervals provides more recovery time for the skimmer. Best practice would to be observe the performance of feeding intervals (4x,5x,6x,etc) view how they effect your total system (skimmer, parameters, livestock) and adjust to your individual needs.

Mike

GreshamH · 03/17/2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

Thx you!

A couple more questions:

1. Seems like most of you guys end up using BRS dosing pump? Would the pinching action smash / destroy the larger food particle like Roti-Feast?

No. While they "pinch" the tubing, they "push" the liquid. Zero concern. I pass MUCH larger items like live copepods through them with no worry.

2. Oil that came with most liquid food I fed stop the skimmer for a few hours, wouldn't continuously feeding throughout the day almost means no skimming most of the time? Have you notice any significant difference in skimmate production?

Easily solution, does multiple times. Some feeds like Roti-Feast have no effect on skimmate production.

Gresham

Bricky · 03/17/2011, 05:56 PM

Is there food sitting right before the injector input nozzle or does it get pulled in up to the point of the peri pump?

Tony Romano · 04/03/2011, 11:08 AM

Are any of the Brightwell or Kent products worth dosing via GHL doser? I don't have $$s or time right now to setup fridge.

Also on plumbing to a dosing pump, does dosing pump act as check valve?

Aquabacs · 04/07/2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricky

Is there food sitting right before the injector input nozzle or does it get pulled in up to the point of the peri pump?

Some food remains in the line between the pump and the injector. One of the main reasons why the dosing unit is inside the refrigerator. Now, depending on how tech savy you are...you can run a 3 way solenoid between the food of choice in the refrigerator and the intake of the peri pump. Reason for the additional solenoid valves would be to flush the lines out with salt water between each feeding. A set-up in this manner would also allow the dosing pumps to be relocated outside the refrigerator.

Mike

herring_fish · 06/08/2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquabacs

Some food remains in the line between the pump and the injector. One of the main reasons why the dosing unit is inside the refrigerator. Now, depending on how tech savy you are...you can run a 3 way solenoid between the food of choice in the refrigerator and the intake of the peri pump. Reason for the additional solenoid valves would be to flush the lines out with salt water between each feeding. A set-up in this manner would also allow the dosing pumps to be relocated outside the refrigerator.

Mike

This made me think that I need to change the tube layout for my robot feeding system on a little garage plankton farm that I am building. If I plumb the replacement water through a solenoid much closer to the food, I can use a single tube to inject all liquids into each station.

I have a solenoid on my auto top off system but I haven't given them nearly enough though. I understand them on a basic level but I need to know them at an intuitive level so that I can made my designs a simple and as cheaply as possible.

I was originally going to feed my towers with solenoids only but with different liquids and powders, there were a few things that made me feel that I needed to build a 2 axis robot.

I have a thread running http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...0#post18841420 where you can get more details but I was hoping that you guys and gals could give me your ideas for using solenoids to there fullest advantage. The robot is run with an inexpensive micro controller so I can accurately turn them on and off when I want to.

In my old design, I have two tubes going to the moving carriage. This idea allows me to just use one.
In the second picture, I show the solenoid in blue, right next to the pump in the refrigerator.

Again, how can I improve my design.

acro-ed · 08/08/2011, 09:52 AM

I'm interested in setting up a mini fridge systems for my tank and want to get everyone's opinion on what foods would be safe for 4-7 days? I travel often and have anthias that require regular feedings.

It's not a NPS tank so I normally feed my fish: Mini brine, mysis, Rods Foods, frozen cyclopeeze etc...

Six line · 10/27/2011, 09:30 PM

I am wondering if any of you guys know of the differences between 'baby' Stereo, Sclero, and Dendronepthya. Is it the sclerites I should be looking at? Some images I see of mine resemble Stereo and then others resemble Dendro. They are growing but not quickly enough for me to compare to one of the many pictures of adult colonies out there.

GeorgePillas · 10/29/2011, 05:52 AM

Hi uhuru,

I am a new member on here but I have read your threat about non photosynthetic corals a few times. I was wondering if you have had any DENDRONEPHTHYA and if yes what's the success rate?

Also if you don't mind me asking what is the latest feeding regime you are using?

Thanks in advance,

George

Bongo Shrimp · 11/27/2011, 02:30 PM

Here's my host:

Ordered two dosing pumps from BRS and am hoping to get this built next weekend!

Aquabacs · 11/27/2011, 10:37 PM

Going old school Avanti

Have it plugged in for a day or so and test out what the interior temp is at. Try to keep it around 38 before drilling it out. Also might sound strange but if you a real warm section of the house, anything between 85 and 90 in temp, plug the fridge in by it and test to see what the temp is inside. I say this just this because you never can tell when you can have a real hot spell in the summer and ac in the house goes out. Always good to be prepared for worst case, realistic, senerio.

Mike

Bongo Shrimp · 11/28/2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquabacs

Going old school Avanti

Have it plugged in for a day or so and test out what the interior temp is at. Try to keep it around 38 before drilling it out. Also might sound strange but if you a real warm section of the house, anything between 85 and 90 in temp, plug the fridge in by it and test to see what the temp is inside. I say this just this because you never can tell when you can have a real hot spell in the summer and ac in the house goes out. Always good to be prepared for worst case, realistic, senerio.

Mike

Yeah thanks. I saw it in a friends basement and he said I could have it since it's so old. I was like yay a new project

.

Anyhow I don't have any super hot spots in my house (thankfully) but I will run it for a while and get the temp set.

So I will be using it for my reef tank and my seahorse tank (so the seahorses can eat more often) but I was wondering how to keep the mysis suspended in the holding tank so the pump can suck up the right amount. Air stone? I mean if nothing keeps it agitated all the mysis will rest at the bottom is a dense pile. I guess this goes for the reef tank too since I feed mysis and cyclopeeze.

Bricky · 11/28/2011, 06:56 PM

I've been told that using an airstone would degrade the foods faster. You might try a magnetic stirrer from Hanna.

Bongo Shrimp · 11/28/2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricky

I've been told that using an airstone would degrade the foods faster. You might try a magnetic stirrer from Hanna.

Yeah I was thinking about that. Does anyone know how big the difference is? I don't want the food going in if it's even starting to go bad especially if it's going to my seahorses.

I mean optimally I'd like to get the magnetic stirrer but if it isn't that necessary I could wait. It's all $$$.

deehz · 12/02/2011, 01:35 PM

Well, I just read the whole thread. Well also reading a lot on NPS corals. I'm going to do a 48" cube at the beginning of the year. I am going full on NPS corals.

What I have read and has been a consensus is that yes, NPS require a lot of feeding due to the fact that they don't have a symbiotic relationship with zooanthalae. The heavy feeding of course when it degrades and decomposes will most certainly effect the water quality in the system. The cause and effect to this is daily water changes. To me, IMO, seems to be a bit much. Then again, IMO, everything in this hobby seems to be exponentially grand.

Many have used, from what I have read, NO3 reactors, reactors, or bio-pellets to combination of all to control nitrate and phosphates and nutrients within the water. However, has anyone thought of using an ATS with their NPS system? The reason why I ask is because they're many positives to going to this method: water changes, oxygenation, stability of pH, control of organic/inorganic nutrients, bacterial production, pod/phytoplankton production, and most important, ability to feed the system heavily. I have friends that swear by this method and the thread here on RC as well as others, attest to the great success this method has to offer.

Has anyone tried an ATS with a NPS system? If so, was it successful? Any unforeseen issues? Coral health degrade? Troubles with nutrient control? Any help with would be greatly appreciated. If you cant already tell, I am going full on ATS when I start the system and will keep you guys updated. Thanks in advance!

herring_fish · 12/02/2011, 02:42 PM

I had this controversial light bulb go off in the really 90's because I wanted to grow filter feeders. NPs weren't popular back them but sponges, gorgs, feather dusters and the like were avalable.

I do not use any mechanical filtration and haven't for a couple of decades. I didn't grow dendros in my old tank and I am building very slowly in my new one. I cannot boast of broad success yet because I don't want to throw away (too much) money.

My current effort is experimenting with growing enough live plankton to maintain NPs.

I do know that I can feed the tank ridiculous amounts of dead food without getting nitrates up.

One complicating factor is that I have a sump full of very porous coral rubble that has lowered my nitrate to the point that my algae stopped growing and so my phosphates have gone up.

Once I get them back down, I will take it back off line and return to the ATS without any competitors for nutrients.
(My avatar is a rendering of the splash from my old ATS)

deehz · 12/02/2011, 04:22 PM

Herring_Fish, thank you for the reply. This solidifies my thought into incorporating the ATS as the main form of filtration. I want to keep the system as natural as possible and from all the readings, this is the only way that I have read w/o to much mechanical filtration, is the way to go. I also thought of incorporating a sump about 3/4 of the size of the system with a VDSB, grasses, and macros. However the downfall of it as you mentioned, the ATS and alga's will be competing for food/nutrients. So this wont be possible unless I fed extremely heavy. Nonetheless, this gets rather expensive as well.

Why do you think that most people don't go with a full on ATS or supplement an ATS with their systems? I would think that an ATS would be beneficial with NP corals/system to control nutrients. Right? Especially in a system where feeding consistently has a huge impact on the water quality, but also the amount of energy needed to export these nutrients via mechanical filtration and constant water changes is just as daunting as well.

Thanks for the info!

herring_fish · 12/02/2011, 05:18 PM

It's hard to argue with success. Skimmers work. An ATS works. Both ways work. Some people rely on vodka as their primary nutrient management tool. There are lots of ways to get the job done. Each one has its positives and negatives.

I don't want to defend or assail any methods. I know that I have read a lot of material on the Dynamic-Aquaria(n) paradigm. I have run most of the criticisms to ground and or tested them myself. The more that I know about it, the more that I like it. The more that I use it, the more I have faith in it.

The different versions of the DSB are found in may main streamed systems now. Macro algae is beginning to be part of many of those same system. Biological diversity is in a refugium is very common these day. They were all concerted heresy by many hobbyist just a few years ago. Adding plankton, dead or alive, was strongly advised against and now we grow things that require it.

As time goes on, more and more people come to the same conclusion but which is better, Chevy or Ford? They both get you from point A to B. They both give you that warm and fuzzy feeling. These days, both will let you stay out of the repair shop.

uhuru · 12/02/2011, 08:54 PM

There was someone here that tried an ATS with a full blown azoox system. I don't remember his user name at this moment, maybe someone else can chime in. I don't think he had much success with it. It was a large system too. Wasn't able to keep up with the nutrients in itself.

herring_fish · 12/02/2011, 09:25 PM

I can put in a ton of food in safely. Right now I am working on lots of projects like (non-traumatic) water flow and growing plankton so I'm not buying the good stuff but I can feed all that I want.

Bongo Shrimp · 01/08/2012, 03:05 PM

So I'm ordering two stirrers for my new setup and I was wondering if I should get two flasks with stoppers for use with the stirrers? Mike?

Bongo Shrimp · 01/11/2012, 05:20 PM

Done except for the flasks on order. The temp says 42 cause I was installing the lights. How does it look?

dzhuo · 01/11/2012, 05:57 PM

Nice set up so far Bongo.

Where did you purchase the refrigerator? Are you going to drill a couple of holes for the return pipe to go through?

Bongo Shrimp · 01/11/2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzhuo

Nice set up so far Bongo.

Where did you purchase the refrigerator? Are you going to drill a couple of holes for the return pipe to go through?

I got it from a friend's basement for the price of carrying it up the stairs to my car

. I am not doing it the way where a pipe runs through and the pumps feed into that pipe. I will have flexible tubing running in and out the same hole in a loop. Kinda hard to explain. I might make a diagram for people to see so they understand how to do it. I would do it the way you are thinking of but I do not have a sump to plumb into and I am doing two tanks from one fridge.

dzhuo · 01/11/2012, 06:18 PM

Diagram will help.

How are you plan to keep the entire flexible tube within the refrigerator and fresh without the return pipe running through it?

04/03/2011, 11:08 AM	#204
Tony Romano Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sugar Land Texas Posts: 874	Are any of the Brightwell or Kent products worth dosing via GHL doser? I don't have $$s or time right now to setup fridge. Also on plumbing to a dosing pump, does dosing pump act as check valve? __________________ Tony Romano Why don't I have any money? Current Tank Info: 215 & 90 mixed tanks

11/27/2011, 02:30 PM	#210
Bongo Shrimp P. ceratophthalma Join Date: May 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,637	Here's my host: Ordered two dosing pumps from BRS and am hoping to get this built next weekend! __________________ 75g Rainfordia Project

11/27/2011, 10:37 PM	#211
Aquabacs Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 1,581	Going old school Avanti Have it plugged in for a day or so and test out what the interior temp is at. Try to keep it around 38 before drilling it out. Also might sound strange but if you a real warm section of the house, anything between 85 and 90 in temp, plug the fridge in by it and test to see what the temp is inside. I say this just this because you never can tell when you can have a real hot spell in the summer and ac in the house goes out. Always good to be prepared for worst case, realistic, senerio. Mike __________________ Put down the halide and step into the shade...welcome to the darkside of reefkeeping. FM UltraLith system since 7.3.08 Current Tank Info: 50 gallon rimless non-photosynthetic

12/02/2011, 01:35 PM	#215
deehz Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 858	Well, I just read the whole thread. Well also reading a lot on NPS corals. I'm going to do a 48" cube at the beginning of the year. I am going full on NPS corals. What I have read and has been a consensus is that yes, NPS require a lot of feeding due to the fact that they don't have a symbiotic relationship with zooanthalae. The heavy feeding of course when it degrades and decomposes will most certainly effect the water quality in the system. The cause and effect to this is daily water changes. To me, IMO, seems to be a bit much. Then again, IMO, everything in this hobby seems to be exponentially grand. Many have used, from what I have read, NO3 reactors, reactors, or bio-pellets to combination of all to control nitrate and phosphates and nutrients within the water. However, has anyone thought of using an ATS with their NPS system? The reason why I ask is because they're many positives to going to this method: water changes, oxygenation, stability of pH, control of organic/inorganic nutrients, bacterial production, pod/phytoplankton production, and most important, ability to feed the system heavily. I have friends that swear by this method and the thread here on RC as well as others, attest to the great success this method has to offer. Has anyone tried an ATS with a NPS system? If so, was it successful? Any unforeseen issues? Coral health degrade? Troubles with nutrient control? Any help with would be greatly appreciated. If you cant already tell, I am going full on ATS when I start the system and will keep you guys updated. Thanks in advance! __________________ Hans Zamora There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed. ~Mohandas K. Gandhi

12/02/2011, 04:22 PM	#217
deehz Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 858	Herring_Fish, thank you for the reply. This solidifies my thought into incorporating the ATS as the main form of filtration. I want to keep the system as natural as possible and from all the readings, this is the only way that I have read w/o to much mechanical filtration, is the way to go. I also thought of incorporating a sump about 3/4 of the size of the system with a VDSB, grasses, and macros. However the downfall of it as you mentioned, the ATS and alga's will be competing for food/nutrients. So this wont be possible unless I fed extremely heavy. Nonetheless, this gets rather expensive as well. Why do you think that most people don't go with a full on ATS or supplement an ATS with their systems? I would think that an ATS would be beneficial with NP corals/system to control nutrients. Right? Especially in a system where feeding consistently has a huge impact on the water quality, but also the amount of energy needed to export these nutrients via mechanical filtration and constant water changes is just as daunting as well. Thanks for the info! __________________ Hans Zamora There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed. ~Mohandas K. Gandhi

03/17/2011, 05:56 PM	#203
Bricky Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 163	Is there food sitting right before the injector input nozzle or does it get pulled in up to the point of the peri pump?

08/08/2011, 09:52 AM	#207
acro-ed Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 384	I'm interested in setting up a mini fridge systems for my tank and want to get everyone's opinion on what foods would be safe for 4-7 days? I travel often and have anthias that require regular feedings. It's not a NPS tank so I normally feed my fish: Mini brine, mysis, Rods Foods, frozen cyclopeeze etc...

10/27/2011, 09:30 PM	#208
Six line Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 60	I am wondering if any of you guys know of the differences between 'baby' Stereo, Sclero, and Dendronepthya. Is it the sclerites I should be looking at? Some images I see of mine resemble Stereo and then others resemble Dendro. They are growing but not quickly enough for me to compare to one of the many pictures of adult colonies out there.

10/29/2011, 05:52 AM	#209
GeorgePillas Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1	Hi uhuru, I am a new member on here but I have read your threat about non photosynthetic corals a few times. I was wondering if you have had any DENDRONEPHTHYA and if yes what's the success rate? Also if you don't mind me asking what is the latest feeding regime you are using? Thanks in advance, George

11/28/2011, 06:56 PM	#213
Bricky Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 163	I've been told that using an airstone would degrade the foods faster. You might try a magnetic stirrer from Hanna.

12/02/2011, 02:42 PM	#216
herring_fish Crazy Designer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Winston-Salem NC, USA Posts: 1,029	I had this controversial light bulb go off in the really 90's because I wanted to grow filter feeders. NPs weren't popular back them but sponges, gorgs, feather dusters and the like were avalable. I do not use any mechanical filtration and haven't for a couple of decades. I didn't grow dendros in my old tank and I am building very slowly in my new one. I cannot boast of broad success yet because I don't want to throw away (too much) money. My current effort is experimenting with growing enough live plankton to maintain NPs. I do know that I can feed the tank ridiculous amounts of dead food without getting nitrates up. One complicating factor is that I have a sump full of very porous coral rubble that has lowered my nitrate to the point that my algae stopped growing and so my phosphates have gone up. Once I get them back down, I will take it back off line and return to the ATS without any competitors for nutrients. (My avatar is a rendering of the splash from my old ATS)

12/02/2011, 05:18 PM	#218
herring_fish Crazy Designer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Winston-Salem NC, USA Posts: 1,029	It's hard to argue with success. Skimmers work. An ATS works. Both ways work. Some people rely on vodka as their primary nutrient management tool. There are lots of ways to get the job done. Each one has its positives and negatives. I don't want to defend or assail any methods. I know that I have read a lot of material on the Dynamic-Aquaria(n) paradigm. I have run most of the criticisms to ground and or tested them myself. The more that I know about it, the more that I like it. The more that I use it, the more I have faith in it. The different versions of the DSB are found in may main streamed systems now. Macro algae is beginning to be part of many of those same system. Biological diversity is in a refugium is very common these day. They were all concerted heresy by many hobbyist just a few years ago. Adding plankton, dead or alive, was strongly advised against and now we grow things that require it. As time goes on, more and more people come to the same conclusion but which is better, Chevy or Ford? They both get you from point A to B. They both give you that warm and fuzzy feeling. These days, both will let you stay out of the repair shop. Last edited by herring_fish; 12/02/2011 at 05:41 PM.

12/02/2011, 08:54 PM	#219
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	There was someone here that tried an ATS with a full blown azoox system. I don't remember his user name at this moment, maybe someone else can chime in. I don't think he had much success with it. It was a large system too. Wasn't able to keep up with the nutrients in itself. __________________ August 2011 TOTM

12/02/2011, 09:25 PM	#220
herring_fish Crazy Designer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Winston-Salem NC, USA Posts: 1,029	I can put in a ton of food in safely. Right now I am working on lots of projects like (non-traumatic) water flow and growing plankton so I'm not buying the good stuff but I can feed all that I want.

01/08/2012, 03:05 PM	#221
Bongo Shrimp P. ceratophthalma Join Date: May 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,637	So I'm ordering two stirrers for my new setup and I was wondering if I should get two flasks with stoppers for use with the stirrers? Mike? __________________ 75g Rainfordia Project

01/11/2012, 05:20 PM	#222
Bongo Shrimp P. ceratophthalma Join Date: May 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,637	Done except for the flasks on order. The temp says 42 cause I was installing the lights. How does it look? __________________ 75g Rainfordia Project

01/11/2012, 05:57 PM	#223
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Nice set up so far Bongo. Where did you purchase the refrigerator? Are you going to drill a couple of holes for the return pipe to go through? __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.

01/11/2012, 06:18 PM	#225
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Diagram will help. How are you plan to keep the entire flexible tube within the refrigerator and fresh without the return pipe running through it? __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.