Assitance with Non-Aragonite based white sand?

[92reefer]

Assistance Please....

I've given up my battle with hardening sand. I've tried so many different brands and consistencies along with balancing the Mag, Alk and CA to avoid it but nothing has worked.

see my old thread here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2211586

Right now I have a fish-only tank anyway with dead rock (well seeded so live Marco rock) so the need to balance the MAG, ALK and CA is a moot point.

I'm currently running bare bottom and while the tank is much cleaner, I just can't stand the look.

So I'm thinking that I could just used some non-buffering, white gravel or sand to get that natural look without having to worry about removing it about 6 months later because it hardened and changed to clumps/rocks.

Is anyone out there using non-aragonite based sand or can someone make any recommendations Please?

[92reefer]

was also debating switching to black sand. Found this stuff (TMS) which is not Aragonite based and should not clump or harden? Anyone have experience with this stuff?

http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcost...an-moon-gravel

[jlmawp]

Originally Posted by 92reefer

was also debating switching to black sand. Found this stuff (TMS) which is not Aragonite based and should not clump or harden? Anyone have experience with this stuff?

http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcost...an-moon-gravel

I bought that exact black sand, and it hasn't clumped on me in the slightest. I decided to do a black layer on the bottom, and then ordered a similar CaribSea sand (Torpedo Beach) to layer on the top. The black stuff is a bit finer, and will drop to the bottom when the sand is stirred. It also tends to get sucked up easier with the siphon than the white stuff.

The black sand does have a bit of a shiny-ness to it. Kind of like an obsidian look. It's not really sand as much as it is very fine rock, pulverized rock.

[CrayolaViolence]

I'm curious as to how your sand is clumping and hardening. I've never heard of that before.

[92reefer]

Originally Posted by CrayolaViolence

I'm curious as to how your sand is clumping and hardening. I've never heard of that before.

Read my previous thread (below)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2211586

I'd love to know why it was hardening as well but I gave up. I've replaced the sand too many times, tried different products as well as balancing the MAG, CA, ALK etc. and nothing worked. Over time, the sand would just clump and eventually harden to an almost rock like consistency

[92reefer]

I'm also wondering how the heck to add a bag of wet sand to an established tank with rock?

It was easy with dry sand, I just slowly poured the dry sand in a funnel sitting inside 1" PVC pipe that I held about an inch off the bottom of the tank and slowly moved around the tank until I was done. Easy, peasy....

But this wet sand stuff. I'm sure the wet sand will get clogged immediately in the top of the funnel if I use my old process?

Opinions, advice, suggestions??

[Kevin Guthrie]

The sand hardened in my tank too but it was all the way to the bottom. It didn't happen in the entire tank, only about half of it. The tank was overgrown with coral and I had to do a tear down.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2566697

The slabs of gravel bent before breaking. From what I could see it was held together with tiny fibers. Some kind of sponge I suspect.

[homer1475]

My aragonite sand has started clumping also. Most of it around my rocks is just as hard as my rocks. I chalk it up to an imbalance of 2 part when I first started 2part dosing. Excess calcium causing precip everywhere and the sand to turn rock hard in and around my LR.

[92reefer]

Originally Posted by homer1475

My aragonite sand has started clumping also. Most of it around my rocks is just as hard as my rocks. I chalk it up to an imbalance of 2 part when I first started 2part dosing. Excess calcium causing precip everywhere and the sand to turn rock hard in and around my LR.

Yep. My problem was that I wasn't even dosing 2 part since I have no real live rock or corals in my tank; just rock and fish. I just performed the usual water changes and verified my salinity was always around 1.025. Several grain sizes (small to large) of aragonite/CC were used over the course of about 2 years and all of them eventually hardened to a rock hard crust and had to be broken up (with a screw driver) prior to being removed the tank.

I ordered some of the Tahitian Moon Sand so I'm going to give that a try. It's not aragonite based per the information I've read so far (pulverized small pieces of inert gravel) so I'm hoping that will solve my substrate hardening issue. I wish I could have found a Sand like the TMS but in white but alas, I'll take what I can get if this stuff works.

I'll report back:

Anyone care to provide feedback on the best way to add "wet sand" to an existing tank with rock work?

[jlmawp]

Originally Posted by 92reefer

I ordered some of the Tahitian Moon Sand so I'm going to give that a try. It's not aragonite based per the information I've read so far (pulverized small pieces of inert gravel) so I'm hoping that will solve my substrate hardening issue. I wish I could have found a Sand like the TMS but in white but alas, I'll take what I can get if this stuff works.

That Tahitian Moon Sand isn't going to arrive wet, I don't think. When I got mine, it was dry as a bone. I would make sure to give it a good rinse first, though.

As I said above, that black sand isn't a matte finish with fine grain to it. It looks like a silica-based manufactured sand with all sorts of powdery bi-product of the crushing involved to make it. It's shiny and synthetic in appearance, and looks kind of like something you'd put in a goldfish bowl. If that's what you're after, cool, but I wanted to make sure you were aware.

[92reefer]

Originally Posted by jlmawp

That Tahitian Moon Sand isn't going to arrive wet, I don't think. When I got mine, it was dry as a bone. I would make sure to give it a good rinse first, though.

As I said above, that black sand isn't a matte finish with fine grain to it. It looks like a silica-based manufactured sand with all sorts of powdery bi-product of the crushing involved to make it. It's shiny and synthetic in appearance, and looks kind of like something you'd put in a goldfish bowl. If that's what you're after, cool, but I wanted to make sure you were aware.

Appreciated Sir and acknowledged on the look and appearance of the product.

I also think they make 2 versions of this sand. One is dry which is the product you purchased, while the petco product specifically lists this as "wet sand" and seems like it was intended for a brand new startup tank:

* FROM PETCO SITE: 20 lb. bag of fine grade natural gravel packed with living, water-purifying bacteria. With this gravel, all you need is tap water to get started in establishing an aquarium. Detoxifies metals, eliminates ammonia and neutralizes chlorines and chloramines

I'm just excited to try it since this is the first "non-aragonite" based substrate I've tried in my tank and this SHOULD solve my clumping/hardening sand issue that I've been battling for over 2 years

[jlmawp]

Cool, wasn't aware of the variety of types of sand. Carry on!

[92reefer]

Originally Posted by jlmawp

Cool, wasn't aware of the variety of types of sand. Carry on!

JL, any suggestions as to how to add the "wet" sand to my tank?

[frogspawn74]

Cut a small edge of the bag. Drop it bag in the tank and turn over. slowly fill in the areas you want to add too.

[jlmawp]

Originally Posted by frogspawn74

Cut a small edge of the bag. Drop it bag in the tank and turn over. slowly fill in the areas you want to add too.

This is a really good idea.

Additionally, if there are areas you can't get to with this method, a bigger turkey baster can relocate a good amount of sand with precision.

[Sk8r]

I dose kalk and maintain aragonite which does not clump. I suspect there is an alkalinity issue somewhere involved in the problem, which may be attached to the method.

[Kevin Guthrie]

If it says "just add tap water"... then doesn't that imply freshwater tank and therefore freshwater bacteria?
Anyhoo, why not rinse the sand, scoop up a cup, and dump it where you want in the tank after get the cup low as possible? Is there a challenge somewhere in the process?

[Sk8r]

When I changed sand, (had fine grain and hated it) I scooped out an area, then used a 2" pvc and a clean auto oil funnel to put the sand where I wanted it. Only a little area at a time, to be sure not to provoke cycle. Don't worry about piles: fish will redistribute it.

[92reefer]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

I dose kalk and maintain aragonite which does not clump. I suspect there is an alkalinity issue somewhere involved in the problem, which may be attached to the method.

I did have ALK problems with my water. I could always get the CA and MAG within acceptable limits but even when dosing baking soda (Randy's 2 part) very slowly to bring the dKH up it, it just kept dropping. Maddening. I suspected my RO/DI unit but I've replaced everything in it (Membrane and a 4 stages while running dual DI units. TDS is around 2 going into the twin DI and of course it's 0 out of the entire unit with DI.

Like I said I gave up on using aragonite of any kind to alleviate the clumping/hardening issue and I'm going to try an inert gravel and see how that works out in the tank (I hate the bare bottom look, just MHO)

[92reefer]

Well I have the new Tahitian Moon Sand in the tank and I have to say I like the new look so far.

Now I have to wait and see if this finally solves my clumping/hardening sand issue. Fingers crossed

[CrayolaViolence]

I have that in my reef tank. I do like it. Although I got it because I thought it would look cleaner than the white sand. Nope. Like a black shirt, it shows EVERYTHING!