Difficult and Special Care Species List

[happyface888]

Oh cool a second list, cant wait to see whats on it. Keep up the good work.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by happyface888
Oh cool a second list, cant wait to see whats on it. Keep up the good work.

Same list just with some additions and revisions.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Would still appreciate some more feedback on the Potter's since I'm seriously considering adding it to the second part of the list. More feedback on the Blue Reef Chromis is appreciated as well.

Potters are very hardy, if they're shipped properly. Unfortunately, theyre very rarely shipped properly.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by RichConley
Potters are very hardy, if they're shipped properly. Unfortunately, theyre very rarely shipped properly.

What makes you think they're shipped any more imporperly than every other fish out there? In fact it would seem likely that since they're a Hawaiian endemic that they go through less shipping and collection stress than most Centropyge Angels.

It's my belief that their secretive nature makes is a little more difficult for them to adapt to aquarium life. Whatever the problem is it seems to be a species that doesn't adapt well, if they make it past the first few weeks they seem pretty hardy.

[RichConley]

Peter, I've recieved a couple directly from Collectors/Transhippers in hawaii, and they've all survived, and done well. The fish were shipped in larger than normal bags, same day, and ate pretty much everything right out of the bag.

I've had them shipped properly, and survival rates were frankly, astonishing.

The difference between these ones, and the ones at stores are ridiculous. They were vibrant, healthy, and very vigorous.


Theyre no more secretive than any other centropyge IMO/IME.



Also, I feel that too many people take fish like Potters and put them in BB quarantine tanks with no rock. IMO, thats pretty much a death sentence for these fish. They simply will not survive without being able to graze.

[SDguy]

I saw potters when I dove in Hawaii. Not secretive at all from what I saw.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by SDguy
I saw potters when I dove in Hawaii. Not secretive at all from what I saw.

Huh, most of the descriptions I've seen is that they fish hand very close to caves, crevices, and coral heads and are rather secretive. Then again, depending on where you look, these fish are always found in harems, always found in pairs, often seen singly, or only found in pairs or harems. They're hardy, they're not hardy, they're very difficult, etc., etc.

I think when I revise the list I'm just going to add a couple more species of angels that are often collected using drugs, bump down the Heraldi, and just make a note about the Potters adapting to aquarium life a little less readily than some other Centropyge species.

Rich, small acrylic cubes are the norm and probably the best way to keep fish at the wholesale level. Many Angels fare well in these conditions for the short time they're there. Also, many Angels are shipped longer distances from poor holding facilities and fare much better than the Potters IME. I've just seen far too many of them not make it more than a week at the LFS and I can't help but think it goes beyond improper shipping practices. Perhaps it's safe to call them a poor shipper though.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

[happyface888]

I had a haraldi once and I didnt know they were cyanide caught, on the 3rd day it died. It didnt eat or anything kept hidding and when it came out it would then return to its hidding and than dead.

[Peter Eichler]

Just happened to come across this thread by accident...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1161672

I'll be following that thread to help determine what kind of notes to make on the Potters when it goes on the list. So those of you with Potters Angel experiences get overe there and help Cody out.

Rich, I notice you only have the one aquarium listed. How long have you had your current Potter's and what happened to the other one?

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by happyface888
I had a haraldi once and I didnt know they were cyanide caught, on the 3rd day it died. It didnt eat or anything kept hidding and when it came out it would then return to its hidding and than dead.

Pretty typical experience with that fish, athough sometimes drug collected specimens last a little longer than that.

[happyface888]

I am thinking maybe a month, my brother bought like 5 baby clown triggers, which he later read are caught with cyanide. Not a single baby clown trigger ever made it to 2 monthes, they all looked healthy and were eatting the next day dead. The size he gets them in are about 1inch and he stuck it in his 180g tank and they never ever live pass one month.

[hulley]

What a great list! It doest surpris me to see a cleaner wrass and a lawn mower blenny on the list. I was told by many not to expect my wrass to live very long becuase when the parasites are gone it will starve to death, that was 2 yrs ago! I've seen him eat nori and frozin food, and my lawn mower blenny hangs out on the nori clip and munches on it all day too! But he was skinny and close to death for awhile until he figured that out! Boy I got very lucky!
Kudos on the list.

[SDguy]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Huh, most of the descriptions I've seen is that they fish hand very close to caves, crevices, and coral heads and are rather secretive. Then again, depending on where you look, these fish are always found in harems, always found in pairs, often seen singly, or only found in pairs or harems. They're hardy, they're not hardy, they're very difficult, etc., etc.

I think when I revise the list I'm just going to add a couple more species of angels that are often collected using drugs, bump down the Heraldi, and just make a note about the Potters adapting to aquarium life a little less readily than some other Centropyge species.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Yeah, I'm not sure. I only saw them that once. But they were out in the open, happily rasping little rocks sitting in the sand on the bottom right under me. Could have been a fluke or a locality thing. And perhaps this translates into ones that do or don't do well in captivity? Anywho, just adding my experience

Did you see my earlier post?...I really think you need to highlight Pseudanthias tuka and even pascalus as anthias to avoid more than the general group.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Just happened to come across this thread by accident...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1161672

I'll be following that thread to help determine what kind of notes to make on the Potters when it goes on the list. So those of you with Potters Angel experiences get overe there and help Cody out.

Rich, I notice you only have the one aquarium listed. How long have you had your current Potter's and what happened to the other one?

I've had the current one about a year. He came in around the size of a quarter, and is considerably larger now. I'm trying to see if I can get a couple of small ones right now, and see if I can build a harem, I'll let you know how that goes.

The last one I had for roughly a year and a half, and he disappeared in a tank move.



My Potters is a complete HAM. Hes always out, very active, and very personable. The previous one was the same, so I dont think theyre all that secretive. Theyre reef grazers, yes, so theyre always near rock, but theyre not hiders.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by SDguy
Yeah, I'm not sure. I only saw them that once. But they were out in the open, happily rasping little rocks sitting in the sand on the bottom right under me. Could have been a fluke or a locality thing. And perhaps this translates into ones that do or don't do well in captivity? Anywho, just adding my experience

Did you see my earlier post?...I really think you need to highlight Pseudanthias tuka and even pascalus as anthias to avoid more than the general group.

Yep, I saw it, and I agree the Anthias and Butterflies need a little work on the list.

[happyface888]

How hard is it to keep a sweeplip in the long runs? My brother had a few of them but never made it to a month, they only ate live brine.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by happyface888
How hard is it to keep a sweeplip in the long runs? My brother had a few of them but never made it to a month, they only ate live brine.

Pretty tough, they often starve if they don't get large amounts of healthy live foods, and when they do well and get enough food they outgrow large aquariums quickly.

[loosecannon]

Zemuron114: Dragonettes are for any body who meets thar needs. Mostly lots of live rock and no competiters . I have never seen a bad heraldi. I got one with a bad eye, and he was still fine. You hit the nail on the head, you can keep any fish if you can meet it`s needs!

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by loosecannon
Zemuron114: Dragonettes are for any body who meets thar needs. Mostly lots of live rock and no competiters . I have never seen a bad heraldi. I got one with a bad eye, and he was still fine. You hit the nail on the head, you can keep any fish if you can meet it`s needs!

Perhaps you would like to explain the needs of a fish that was collected with cyanide...

[zemuron114]

Every fish will have better odds at living if you can get it from the source. IE: potters angels from Hawaii. But for 99% of the hobby that isn't possible especially from say indo, australia etc.

Cyanide fish are impossible to keep long term. It basically destroys their internal organs so there is no way to keep it alive. Depending on the dosage determines how long it will live, but even very small dosages, they will not live long. Lost cause unfortunately.. people still buy them, so they will keep doing it. And it sucks for the retailer and hobbiest because they will have no clue until its to late (even wholesalers dont know until its to late)

potters angels are curious little buggers in the wild, especially the big ones. They do hide, but if you go near their coral head they will say hello or try to charge you lol. Most of the potters i ship to LFS do well from what they tell me. There is always some die off (with any species) but for the most part they do very well. They are direct from HI though.

Alot of clown triggers (especially small ones) are caught with drugs. Dont buy them from petco - they are usually caught with drugs.

I had a sweetlips for quite some time. but i fed it live ghost shrimp from the ocean for almost a year. I ran out and it ate frozen, but died shortly after. I dont know if it had anything to do with the frozen or live though...

[clekchau]

peter great list and documentation

although there seems to be alot of "good" butterflies left off your list per bob fenner and wetwebmedia

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by clekchau
peter great list and documentation

although there seems to be alot of "good" butterflies left off your list per bob fenner and wetwebmedia

Yeah, like I said, the Butterflies need some work. Also, that listing of Butterflies was made years ago when there was less availability of species which just makes matters worse. Thanks for the props.

[TWallace]

Just thought I'd update this. My Potter's Angel was found dead stuck to a Tunze nanostream today. He did not appear sick or skinny at all, though he never ate aggressively like my other fish did. I think I'm going to give up on this species. They just seem to die for no apparent reason.

[loosecannon]

Pete: perhaps you would like to explain how to not buy fish collected this way , When reefers stop buying them from a lack of info. Lfs will stop buying them , and smelling the berath of a fish assanine. we all know cyanide is bad for , the hole reef and the men that use it.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by loosecannon
Pete: perhaps you would like to explain how to not buy fish collected this way , When reefers stop buying them from a lack of info. Lfs will stop buying them , and smelling the berath of a fish assanine. we all know cyanide is bad for , the hole reef and the men that use it.

I already provided info on cyanide and possible symptoms, in the end often it's very difficult to tell. The best I can do here is provide a few fish that are commonly collected with drugs. How are local fish stores supposed to tell if a fish was caught with cyanide when most of their ordering consists of looking at an availability sheet and sending in their order? I can assure you that is doesn't say "Lemonpeel Angelfish (caught with cyanide)" on the order sheet...

Lastly, humor is so lost one some people... The only "assanine" thing about "smelling the berath of a fish" is that you thought I was serious. Think hard about why that might be a silly thing to believe...