Jebao Return Pump for Basement Sump Setup and Plumbing Questions.

[keh9qd]

I am getting ready to set up a Deep Blue 80 Gallon Rimless Reef Ready tank and plumb my 40g sump in the basement. I was hoping to get some feedback on a Jebao return pump for the job. Here are my pump options:


Model 10: 2640 GPH, max head 19.6, 80 watts
Model 15: 3962GPH, Max Head 23ft, 105watts
Model 18: 4755 GPH, Max Head 30ft, 130watts
Model 20: 5500 GPH, Max Head 31.16ft, 175watts

My plumbing is going to be around pretty much straight up and down as my sump is directly below the floor in the basement (I will probably have a couple 45's on the drain and returns. I will also be utilizing the Herbie overflow setup on the standard 1" and 3/4" holes currently drilled in the tank.

Does anyone have any experience or advice on which pump would be ideal above? I would like to use this pump to save some money and hopefully not consume to many watts. I am not concerned about heat from an internal pump either.

My other questions are:

1. I am using the herbie setup and would like to know if my full siphon should be on the 3/4" or 1" pipe? The glass is tempered so I cannot drill a 3rd hole.

2. What size return pipe (pvc) should I use for the pump 1", 1.25", or 1.5"?

3. What size on the drains?

[outy]

How high is water level in sump to top of tank????

I have 8' and the DCP 10000 is maxed out with only 300-400 gph

I wish I bought the 18 and had to turn it down.

[keh9qd]

From the sump to the top of the tank will be 10-11 feet

[mcgyvr]

In general we usually recommend that the flow through a sump be equal to about 3-5x display tank size after head losses (some say up to 10x but that excessive IMO)..

Those model numbers aren't any that I recognize from Jebao..
But you should consult the flow rate chart that comes with all pumps and see which one is sufficient for the 3-5x display tank size at the calculated head based on the height and plumbing restrictions that you intend to use..

[keh9qd]

Those are not the actual model numbers the Model 15 should be 15,000...

Thanks for the input

[outy]

You will need an 18 at minimum that high. the 10000 at 8 is very low

The 15 barely addresses height like the 18.

You can always turn it down if need be.


These are not the best basement pumps, but if mine makes it a year it pays for itself in electrical savings

[outy]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

In general we usually recommend that the flow through a sump be equal to about 3-5x display tank size after head losses (some say up to 10x but that excessive IMO)..

.

These pumps are not rated properly IMHO so it makes it hard for the consumer to purchase one and know what turn over he will end up with.

I almost bought the 6500 and so glad I didn't, on paper it should have worked fine. Real life the 10000 is weak at higher head pressures.

[ca1ore]

I wouldn't use them personally, but I helped a friend set his up for a basement return and found that the real world numbers for these pumps against head/pressure are quite poor. Figure out which one gives you the net flow you need against your calculated head pressure ..... and then buy the next higher model Given their poor performance against head, you may find you don't actually have any savings.

Herbie drain should always use the smaller pipe as the siphon; larger as the open channel/emergency. Use the largest diameter return pipe that you can to minimize friction.

[outy]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Figure out which one gives you the net flow you need against your calculated head pressure ..... and then buy the next higher model .

Two models up LOL

Given their poor performance against head, you may find you don't actually have any savings.

actually you can turn down the high rated pumps that will pump more at the same amount of wattage.

even maxed out at 80W if it last a year it pays for itself, if I went to 130W and had it turned down to 100W it would take 1 1/5 of a year to pay for itself.

The only reason I use this pump was the actual electricity savings verses cost.

By all rights they should last 3-5 years, there is no real track record here on these new pumps. I have a feeling more of these are sold then any other DC pump and they sure seem to be better then the vectra

[keh9qd]

Yea i figured I can got to the 18,000 or 20,000 model and crank it down if necessary. I really only need 500-600 gallons to the tank, but if it ends up being overkill ill plumb it to a manifold and feed my frag tank and/or refugium. Ive got one of the smaller jebao pumps on my frag tank 3 years now going strong. Im hoping it will at least hold me over for awhile.

[dt204]

I had a dc 12000 for my basement sump. I had it maxed out with a bit of a refugium feeding off it. I definitely could have used the next size up.
It almost lasted 2 years. Worked well for that time, then just died. I've got an M1 now

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by outy

Two models up LOL





actually you can turn down the high rated pumps that will pump more at the same amount of wattage.

even maxed out at 80W if it last a year it pays for itself, if I went to 130W and had it turned down to 100W it would take 1 1/5 of a year to pay for itself.

The only reason I use this pump was the actual electricity savings verses cost.

By all rights they should last 3-5 years, there is no real track record here on these new pumps. I have a feeling more of these are sold then any other DC pump and they sure seem to be better then the vectra

Your math seems a bit wonky to me.

[Breadman03]

Keep in mind that an AC pump will only pull its maximum wattage at max flow ie:zero head. With head pressure, they will draw less. For example, my 180 watt Mag 18 draws something like 50 watts on my skimmer.

[outy]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Your math seems a bit wonky to me.

16 cents a kwh and my Iwaki md55 runs 190W. Jebao pulls 80W.

That's saving me 110W 24 house a day.

That is $153 a year savings.

[ca1ore]

Have you actually measured wattage or are you just using published specs?

[outy]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Have you actually measured wattage or are you just using published specs?

The 80W is measured.

The 190W for the Iwaki I have not. They are usually pretty close to the stated wattage and I do trust their labels on their pumps.

Ill buy a killawatt and measure.


I'm using the Iwaki now for water changes.

[ksed]

Originally Posted by outy

The 80W is measured.

The 190W for the Iwaki I have not. They are usually pretty close to the stated wattage and I do trust their labels on their pumps.

Ill buy a killawatt and measure.


I'm using the Iwaki now for water changes.

The more head pressure you put on an AC pump the less wattage it draws. A lot of people don’t know this. This is where everyone gets hung up on. Just for an example , I am running a Eheim 1262 with 90w on the rating plate. I have about 6 ft head and the pump is running at 60 watts. Without a measuring device you will never know what the draw is. On the other hand DC pumps in general do not decrease in wattage as head pressure increases as it’s controlled by the controller.
This topic has been discussed on the forums multiple time and will say this again you can not go by the rating plate. As a matter of fact the DC pumps most notably the lower end draw more power than stated as they don’t measure power at the wall. They measure it after the power supply.
There should by a reference to this topic on this forum, so people can refer back and be educated about this topic. HTH

[outy]

Originally Posted by ksed

The more head pressure you put on an AC pump the less wattage it draws. A lot of people don’t know this. This is where everyone gets hung up on. Just for an example , I am running a Eheim 1262 with 90w on the rating plate. I have about 6 ft head and the pump is running at 60 watts. Without a measuring device you will never know what the draw is. On the other hand DC pumps in general do not decrease in wattage as head pressure increases as it’s controlled by the controller.
This topic has been discussed on the forums multiple time and will say this again you can not go by the rating plate. As a matter of fact the DC pumps most notably the lower end draw more power than stated as they don’t measure power at the wall. They measure it after the power supply.
There should by a reference to this topic on this forum, so people can refer back and be educated about this topic. HTH

Have you owned and measured an Iwaki? they are electricity pigs and do not compare to any pump you mentioned.

Iwaki sells more pumps then any of our hobby pumps, and has the reputation when backing their plates which list "average wattage"

Again ill measure, but I would respect your opinion more if you had actual data on an Iwaki

[ksed]

First of all I did not say they are energy efficient.
Second I don’t own a Iwaki.
Third the principle of AC pumps of less wattage as head pressure increase applies to all. That being said high head pressure pumps may not suffer as much but still do.
Since you don’t own a meter and seem to know everything I’ll take your word .

[Vinny Kreyling]

As a general rule DC pumps do NOT handle head pressure well at all.
There are 2 costly exceptions.

[outy]

Originally Posted by ksed

Second I don’t own a Iwaki.
.

nuff said

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by outy

The 80W is measured.

The 190W for the Iwaki I have not. They are usually pretty close to the stated wattage and I do trust their labels on their pumps.

Ill buy a killawatt and measure.


I'm using the Iwaki now for water changes.

Ok, thanks. I've been meaning to buy a kill-a-watt for a while now as I am interested to see what my PW200 actualły draws in my system (versus the published 290 watts). Long time Iwaki user as well. PW not quite as bad, but close.

[outy]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Long time Iwaki user as well. PW not quite as bad, but close.

I researched all I could for actual wattage, nothing negative out there on either, except they are energy piggys being magnetic drive pumps.

I know aquarium use is a small percentage compared to their industrial applications where their name is tied to the actual ratings they give and their reliability. Engineers have to know the true specs before building huge factories that use hundreds of these pumps for processing food and chemical products.

Curious to see myself.

I can offer this for those that read up and research, the md55 I had was just slightly warm to the touch. The md15 I have is hot to the touch, and heats up the water dramatically in my calcium reactor. I like it because it keeps it from freezing in my basement, but also curious if it holds to the rated 26-31W

I would bet since they show a range the true wattage is inline.

Will have to ebay a kill a watt, none in my city

[alton]

This is one of those times when you wish you had friends/ local club that you could borrow a couple different pumps to see which one worked before investing money

[keh9qd]

The bottom line for me is that I definitely have a $200 max budget on a pump. Im ok with replacing after 1 year just so I can get a feel for the basement setup. I assumed a DC pump will not be ideal for the head pressure but wont be a pig on electricity even if maxed. I figured I would go with either the 18,000 or 20,000 model as It seems to me I wont be overkill. If i am overkill worse case I will go ahead and plumb in my frag tank and refugium and fee them as well. My fear on an expensive external pump is wattage, price, and not having the option to throttle up or down on my first pump attempt.