PH too high even after water change - can't get under control

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 10:45 AM

hey guys, i've been having high ph problems for the past week. during the day i can't seem to get it below 8.5. about a month ago i moved the tank from another location. i know this has possibly causes a mini cycle in the tank but i'm not sure why the ph can't get to acceptable levels.

here are the details of my setup:

75 gal mixed reef with 30 gal sump
running brs 2 part for alk and calcium
neptune apex with ph probe

earlier this week we did a 25 gal water change to see if the ph would drop and it didn't seem to have any affect. i just did another 7 gal water change and it seemed to increase the ph .3

i also tried dosing with vinegar early this week but the swing was too drastic. i also tried aiming the return pumps upward to aerate the water more but this didnt seem to have any affect either.

any suggestions of how i can get the ph under control?

nereefpat · 02/22/2018, 10:47 AM

Is the tank having problems like precipitation of Ca and alk? Problems with livestock?

If not, I would just not worry about it.

How are you measuring pH?

RobZilla04 · 02/22/2018, 10:49 AM

8.5 is okay. Although it is on the top end of the scale, it's fine to leave it there. What is your Alk level?

frey · 02/22/2018, 10:56 AM

Airation will increase PH. Is your PH probe calibrated correctly or is it in an area with alot of bubbles say next to the skimmer? Take a day off from the 2 part and/or reduce the amount you are dosing. If non of the corals or fish are showing stress I would say what most of the more advanced guys I have read say. Stop worrying about PH. If your calc and alk are good and stable and your mag is appropriate none of your tank life is showing stress leave it alone. 8.5 is not that much higher than the 8.2 which would be ideal and I would think it is better than being below say 7.5 and unable to raise.

mcgyvr · 02/22/2018, 11:27 AM

Stop looking at PH... Problem solved

BrettDS · 02/22/2018, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanpal

earlier this week we did a 25 gal water change to see if the ph would drop and it didn't seem to have any affect. i just did another 7 gal water change and it seemed to increase the ph .3

Did you check the pH of the new water before you added it? If the new water has a high pH as well then all the water changes in the world won’t make a difference.

slief · 02/22/2018, 12:43 PM

What are you using for the alk part? If you’re using soda ash, that will raise pH levels. I’d switch to baking soda.

Uncle99 · 02/22/2018, 01:05 PM

You must have a big coral load if your dosing any 2 part.
Corals use the Alk faster than calcium, have you measured the weekly use of Alk by corals and factored that into the dosing?

Bent · 02/22/2018, 01:12 PM

Backup.

Your alk has to be sky high for the pH to also be.

What is your alk? If It isn’t 12 or more, the pH test is suspect.

FoxFace Fish · 02/22/2018, 01:38 PM

Don't go chasing potential Hydrogen....(in my best singing voice)

Bent · 02/22/2018, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxFace Fish

Don't go chasing potential Hydrogen....(in my best singing voice)

Bwahahaha

HBtank · 02/22/2018, 05:58 PM

Do not try to control pH, control alk.

Regardless, my first concern would be verifying the results and calibrating the pH probe.

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nereefpat

Is the tank having problems like precipitation of Ca and alk? Problems with livestock?

If not, I would just not worry about it.

How are you measuring pH?

a few days ago i tested alk and it was extremely low: 3.7 and calcium was 350. i didnt understand why it was so low and i found out it was because the coding for the apex is set to stop dosing alk if ph raised above 8.4. i decided to raise the threshold to 8.5 so i could raise alk but the ph rose with it as well.

i'm measuring ph with the apex probe

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobZilla04

8.5 is okay. Although it is on the top end of the scale, it's fine to leave it there. What is your Alk level?

current alk is at 5.7

BrettDS · 02/22/2018, 09:28 PM

Alkalinity that low and pH that high should be mutually exclusive. I suspect that you are getting a bad reading somewhere. Either your alkalinity is higher than you think it is or your pH is lower than you think it is. I would suggest getting a pH test kit and a second alkalinity test kit to check your numbers because I don’t think the numbers you are seeing are right.

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frey

Airation will increase PH. Is your PH probe calibrated correctly or is it in an area with alot of bubbles say next to the skimmer? Take a day off from the 2 part and/or reduce the amount you are dosing. If non of the corals or fish are showing stress I would say what most of the more advanced guys I have read say. Stop worrying about PH. If your calc and alk are good and stable and your mag is appropriate none of your tank life is showing stress leave it alone. 8.5 is not that much higher than the 8.2 which would be ideal and I would think it is better than being below say 7.5 and unable to raise.

most of the corals and fish look ok. the probe is on the other side of the skimmer without any bubbles. id say most corals and fish look ok but the duncans and a few others look a little stressed. about 95% of the tank looks good.

i would turn off the dosing but the alk will drop even further. is that still a good option?

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettDS

Did you check the pH of the new water before you added it? If the new water has a high pH as well then all the water changes in the world won’t make a difference.

i tested the ro/di water to see if it was suspect. it was a lot lower. i did not check the ph of the water used during the WC.

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

What are you using for the alk part? If you’re using soda ash, that will raise pH levels. I’d switch to baking soda.

im using soda ash from BRS

BrettDS · 02/22/2018, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanpal

i tested the ro/di water to see if it was suspect. it was a lot lower. i did not check the ph of the water used during the WC.

Trying to pH test RODI water will give you a bad reading because there are no ions in the water and it throws off the meter. The better test would be the newly mixed salt water before you add it to the tank.

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

You must have a big coral load if your dosing any 2 part.
Corals use the Alk faster than calcium, have you measured the weekly use of Alk by corals and factored that into the dosing?

i did measure almost daily to get the adequate dosing each day. after the move i didnt test until recently since i noticed the high ph.

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBtank

Do not try to control pH, control alk.

Regardless, my first concern would be verifying the results and calibrating the pH probe.

i have not calibrated the probe since i purchased the apex. i hope one of my LFS's have ph calibration solution. i'll have to get this tomorrow.

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettDS

Trying to pH test RODI water will give you a bad reading because there are no ions in the water and it throws off the meter. The better test would be the newly mixed salt water before you add it to the tank.

thank you for all the replies. i'll be sure to test the new batch of water that i make.

ryanpal · 02/22/2018, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slief

What are you using for the alk part? If you’re using soda ash, that will raise pH levels. I’d switch to baking soda.

this seems like a viable option until i can make sure the ph probe is calibrated correctly. the reef calculator (http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html) determined that in order to raise from 5.7 to 8.5 i would need to use "28.6 grams, approx 6 tsp, or 1 oz" in baking soda. i understand i should only raise it by 1.5dkh a day maximum so i figured i would split this up into two days.

i'm not sure how much ro/di i should use and how to figure out what i should set the dosing too. i use this apex program generator for the for dosing: https://www.reeftronics.net/adpg/dosingcalc.php

anyone have any feedback as to how i would set this up?

Anemone · 02/23/2018, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frey

Airation will increase PH. Is your PH probe calibrated correctly or is it in an area with alot of bubbles say next to the skimmer? Take a day off from the 2 part and/or reduce the amount you are dosing. If non of the corals or fish are showing stress I would say what most of the more advanced guys I have read say. Stop worrying about PH. If your calc and alk are good and stable and your mag is appropriate none of your tank life is showing stress leave it alone. 8.5 is not that much higher than the 8.2 which would be ideal and I would think it is better than being below say 7.5 and unable to raise.

Actually, during the winter months, aeration will often lower pH levels, due to increased carbon dioxide in the indoor air. But I agree, don't worry about a specific pH number unless your tank is having problems.

Kevin

HBtank · 02/23/2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanpal

i have not calibrated the probe since i purchased the apex. i hope one of my LFS's have ph calibration solution. i'll have to get this tomorrow.

Make sure it is clean as well. Also in generally make sure you verify with a pH test kit periodically to help identify when recalibration is needed.

02/22/2018, 10:45 AM	#1
ryanpal Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 756	PH too high even after water change - can't get under control hey guys, i've been having high ph problems for the past week. during the day i can't seem to get it below 8.5. about a month ago i moved the tank from another location. i know this has possibly causes a mini cycle in the tank but i'm not sure why the ph can't get to acceptable levels. here are the details of my setup: 75 gal mixed reef with 30 gal sump running brs 2 part for alk and calcium neptune apex with ph probe earlier this week we did a 25 gal water change to see if the ph would drop and it didn't seem to have any affect. i just did another 7 gal water change and it seemed to increase the ph .3 i also tried dosing with vinegar early this week but the swing was too drastic. i also tried aiming the return pumps upward to aerate the water more but this didnt seem to have any affect either. any suggestions of how i can get the ph under control?

02/22/2018, 10:47 AM	#2
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	Is the tank having problems like precipitation of Ca and alk? Problems with livestock? If not, I would just not worry about it. How are you measuring pH? __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

02/22/2018, 10:49 AM	#3
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	8.5 is okay. Although it is on the top end of the scale, it's fine to leave it there. What is your Alk level? __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

02/22/2018, 11:27 AM	#5
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Stop looking at PH... Problem solved __________________ Who me?

02/22/2018, 12:43 PM	#7
slief RC Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 14,173	What are you using for the alk part? If you’re using soda ash, that will raise pH levels. I’d switch to baking soda. __________________ Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

02/22/2018, 10:56 AM	#4
frey Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Jersey Shore, Pa Posts: 92	Airation will increase PH. Is your PH probe calibrated correctly or is it in an area with alot of bubbles say next to the skimmer? Take a day off from the 2 part and/or reduce the amount you are dosing. If non of the corals or fish are showing stress I would say what most of the more advanced guys I have read say. Stop worrying about PH. If your calc and alk are good and stable and your mag is appropriate none of your tank life is showing stress leave it alone. 8.5 is not that much higher than the 8.2 which would be ideal and I would think it is better than being below say 7.5 and unable to raise.

02/22/2018, 01:05 PM	#8
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	You must have a big coral load if your dosing any 2 part. Corals use the Alk faster than calcium, have you measured the weekly use of Alk by corals and factored that into the dosing?

02/22/2018, 01:12 PM	#9
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	Backup. Your alk has to be sky high for the pH to also be. What is your alk? If It isn’t 12 or more, the pH test is suspect. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

02/22/2018, 01:38 PM	#10
FoxFace Fish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 435	Don't go chasing potential Hydrogen....(in my best singing voice) __________________ FoxFace RabbitFish For Life Everyone in this hobby has made a mistake at least once. Be smart and learn from others mistakes Current Tank Info: Reason I am broke as a joke

02/22/2018, 05:58 PM	#12
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	Do not try to control pH, control alk. Regardless, my first concern would be verifying the results and calibrating the pH probe. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

02/22/2018, 09:28 PM	#15
BrettDS Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Orlando Posts: 1,109	Alkalinity that low and pH that high should be mutually exclusive. I suspect that you are getting a bad reading somewhere. Either your alkalinity is higher than you think it is or your pH is lower than you think it is. I would suggest getting a pH test kit and a second alkalinity test kit to check your numbers because I don’t think the numbers you are seeing are right.