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07/13/2011, 05:14 PM | #26 |
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I think the retro-fit is awesome, but when I had my streams in my 180, it was the flow I could see, not the numbers on the box that sold me.
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07/13/2011, 05:42 PM | #27 |
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Why couldnt you just see how long it takes to fill a 55 gallon barrel, or 100 gallon tank, whatever, and then do a little math? I could have come up with more accurate numbers in my kitchen in about 10 min.
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07/13/2011, 05:43 PM | #28 |
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flow pumps don't work the same as return pumps.
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07/13/2011, 05:44 PM | #29 | |
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If nothing else, the fix will help future users to do planning more accordingly. I am looking forward to the fix and fully expect my existing 6105 will even be better in 6 months.
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07/13/2011, 05:51 PM | #30 |
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its good to see tunze step up to the plate and a little more flow would be nice maybe 1 less pump in the old tank
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If you think you know the answer than ask 3 more people the question Current Tank Info: 200 Gal RR,ATB medium, 4 AI blue sol,230 LBS LIVE ROCK, no sand , 40 GAL sump, airstar1800, 3 tunze 6105 1- 6205 1-6305, Geo 818, profilux3ex with toys |
07/13/2011, 07:13 PM | #31 |
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If the newer Stream 2 models are off, is it possible that the older style Streams are off too?
I am waiting for my older streams to kick the bucket so I can upgrade to the Stream 2 models. Thanks in advance. |
07/13/2011, 07:41 PM | #32 |
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07/13/2011, 08:05 PM | #33 |
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I would just retro fit a vortec in my tank
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I enjoy long walks, next to my reef tank...LOVE 303 Current Tank Info: water box |
07/13/2011, 08:07 PM | #34 |
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07/13/2011, 08:21 PM | #35 | ||
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Quote:
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Yes you do get what you pay for. I paid for Tunzes because of their flow, reliability, silence, and customer service. The flow was estimated wrong, but they stand behind what they sell. Tunze is a great company with arguably the best customer service in this hobby, here in America at least. So what is your point? The company has ackowledged the problem, and instead of denying it or saying tough crap, they are going to make good on it. Is your only purpose in this thread to attack tunze as a vortech fan? Because it accomplishes nothing. Even if these Tunzes were 1/10th the flow advertised, the pros of them over the Vortech still make it far more favorable to me. Besides, they are going to address the problem. Vortech has had problems in the past, and they addressed them as well. Things happen, what makes a company great is what they do to correct it.
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Jim Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef and 75g Freshwater |
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07/13/2011, 08:53 PM | #36 |
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07/13/2011, 08:57 PM | #37 |
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Roger, I have a pair of 6105s as you know. Is Tunze going to send out the retrofits or do we have to order them? Is Tunze going to charge for the retrofits?
And regardless of how much flow it puts out, I am a very happy Tunze customer and am confident Tunze will go above and beyond to make this right. |
07/13/2011, 10:13 PM | #38 |
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I know i am out of my depth here, but I have one suggestion when it comes to propellors...have your counterparts in Germany contact Ernest Zavarsky. He is the owner of MHZ Modelbau, one of the preeminent manufacturers of German model poweboats and engines. I've been into radio control model boats for many years. There are things that the top racers do to the props that we use to make each prop perform to it's maximum potential. I know this sounds crazy, but I'm not talking about toy boats from toys r us. I'm talking about gas powered boats costing thousands of dollars that run in excess of 70-80mph, no exaggeration. The serious racers know so much about tweaking props that I'm sure someone would be able to offer insight to the design of your props. For example, if you simply round the tips of each blade, you will direct more prop thrust straight back; pointed tips let more water escape off the tip, instead of straight back. There are dozens of shapes, tweaks, bends and cuts that can be made to a prop blade to acheive a desired result. It may very well be worth the effort to speak to someone that knows high speed model boat props in order to come up with a more effective design. I'm quote sure that tunze has some talented engineers working on props, but think about it. It's got to be very hard to tell whats going on from one design to another when the prop is stationary and you can't tell how fast it is pushing something. With our models and some simple gps gear and a stop watch a modeler can tell instantly if a tweak to his prop made the boat faster. By seeing the rooster tail you can tell if the thrust is narrow or wide.
Just my $.02... |
07/14/2011, 08:09 AM | #39 | |
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07/14/2011, 11:38 AM | #40 |
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Everyone keeps asking what they are going to do, when first, tunze needs to decide how to fix the problem. Then they will know what it will take, and can come up with a plan and follow through.
Tunze has a superior customer service, and I doubt they will leave hundreds of thousands of people hanging. As mentioned,there are no posts about people complaining that their tunze 6X05 pump doesn't put out! But, with the tests, people now want was advertised which is an ok thing to want, but I see a fix, and also have to turn down pumps 50% when they get 50% more flow!! I can see some whirlpool effects intanks in the future .. Just relax, and wait more then 48 hours for a fix and answer.... They are working on it, and I stand behind that. I have no reason to not trust them.
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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-) 240display, reef in progress Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am..... |
07/14/2011, 11:50 AM | #41 |
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it sounds like you folks need to make a solidworks model of your pump and propeller mechanism, then perform some flowworks fluid dynamics analysis on it. From what I've read here, it looks like you are having issues modeling your predicted output since your calculations arent accounting for viscous effects of water so there is a lot of drag involved that the model doesnt account for. This would be exascerbated in smaller pumps by the more restrictive shields in perportion to the propeller size and flow.
My suggestion? Hire an engineer very familiar with fluid dynamics and you will have accurate predictions of flow quickly. Furthermore, once a model is made, it is easy to tweak the model, without having to go through costly prototyping, to determine what may help your design. good luck! I use Tunze in my frag tank and Ecotech in the display, I like them both. I can easily recognize the problem that you are facing. Designing a high flow pump that isnt so high RPM that it will cavitate, that has enough shielding around it that it wont suck in critters, but that has enough output to satisfy a public that always wants more flow. It is tough! what I see as your largest issue. Ecotech pumps are large but the in-tank footprint is small so they are able to make a LARGE propeller and shield mechanism without it seeming huge in the tank, since the other half is outside. Tunze must try to make a large propeller and shield mechanism with the motor integrated, which results in a larger in-tank presence that likely has detrimental effects on sales. Id suggest looking into a sealed motor where the stator is in the center and the rotor is along the outside with fins mounted directly to it, the entire thing could be shielded and your intake area could be spread all around the motor resulting in less drag and less starving of the pump. I've got some better ideas but without being on your payroll im not giving them up! good luck!
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[url=http://drugstore-onlinecatalog.com/]drugstore-onlinecatalog.com[/url] Current Tank Info: 150g SPS cube Last edited by NeverlosT; 07/14/2011 at 11:57 AM. Reason: spelling |
07/14/2011, 12:11 PM | #42 |
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We appreciate the feedback, but we have things under control. I head to Germany in the next 2 weeks and will do a lot of work on this. As I said, existing customers will be taken care of, we expect all upgrades to be retrofittable, i.e. just a new prop, or new propeller housing. They may not be free, it is possible at the end the pumps price has to increase a little because it will cost more to build, but any cost would be very minimal and for the most popular model, 6105 we do expect it to be free and very simple.
There are trade offs to every design, I think you may all be surprised when you see more test results, as I initially said, the gph is not the full story and when you get to talking about gph and flow velocity at distance, we have the superior design. 4000 gph you cannot aim, will have less impact than 2200 you can, even where things stand today, and when we get that to our stated numbers you will be very pleasantly surprised, and yes, most will end up running at 50% and wondering what all the fuss was about. I urge you to wait and see, this won't be solved in days, it will take months, I expect in 1-2 months the 6105 solution will be ready, 6205 shortly behind that but 6305 is more intensive and many parts have to be made.
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Roger Vitko Tunze USA "He's for every one of us, stands for every one of us, he'll save every man, woman and child in a mighty Flash!" Current Tank Info: 210 gallon planted tank with Altum Angelfish |
07/14/2011, 12:15 PM | #43 | |
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Quote:
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07/14/2011, 12:52 PM | #44 |
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looking forward to increasing flow since i just went with a larger tank . you guys have the best customer service and integrity i've ever experienced!
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Go with what works for you. Current Tank Info: Envisions 400g (96x32x30) online January 2012. 4-72" VHOs,7-OceanRevive T247,Aquamaxx Cone 6 Skimmer, Aquamaxx S3 CR,Aquariumplants CO2 regulator, Jebao SOW20's, 80w Emperor UV, tang dominated with anthias and longspine cards |
07/14/2011, 01:56 PM | #45 | |
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Quote:
The title of that article might as well have been "If you love your Tunzes now... just wait!"
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Jacob. Current Tank Info: Retired from reefing... |
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07/14/2011, 02:34 PM | #46 |
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Wow.
I'd love to run my 6105 next to my mp40 just to see the difference again. Unfortunately that would require me to order more parts for the vortech. I can assure anyone that the flow produced inside an old shoe box is far below the max flow stated by Ecotech. I'm really looking forward to the improvements to come on this one. Thanks for keeping us up to date Roger. |
07/14/2011, 03:00 PM | #47 |
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Does all of this poopstorm mean the 7096 software update has been shelved?
I'm quite confident Tunze will take care of us. Since my tank is LPS/softy dominant, I may either skip the upgrade, or as Roger suggested run my 6205's at a lower output. Much more flow in my tank might blow my torch off it's skeleton!
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"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow." ~ Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 215 gal TBS Reef |
07/14/2011, 08:53 PM | #48 |
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to be honest, who is going to run the vortech at its 100% constant full speed all the time.
the flow rate will drop significantly in all modes except the constant speed mode, and you have to tolerate the external motor noise if you like to keep it at full power. |
07/15/2011, 01:13 AM | #49 |
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Personally I don't agree with the use of words like "fix" and "defect" when it seems more like a matter of the numbers just being incorrectly calculated. I haven't seen anything that indicates that Tunze knowingly misled customers and it speaks volumes that they are so proactively working to improve their product. Tunze could have easily said "oops, numbers are off, here are the corrected numbers", changed packaging and manuals, and gone about their business.
I'll look forward to any improvements that come along, but if nothing ever changed I would still be just as happy with my Streams. It's very encouraging to know that the design of the Streams still has room for future improvements, and to me that is not a defect.
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============================================= In between tanks. Current Tank Info: Recently moved, will have a new tank up soon. |
07/15/2011, 04:07 AM | #50 | |
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