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08/07/2016, 03:44 AM | #26 |
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I'm enjoying the read as well, keep up the ramble. The idea of running a more natural tank fascinates me. On of my favourite freshwater tanks was a self sustaining set up the owner could leave for weeks at a time with nothing but water top offs.
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"Perhaps it is boredom, not intelligence, that has propelled humans up the evolutionary ladder." _________ Reefed out |
08/07/2016, 04:47 AM | #27 | |
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PS. Interesting signature. Boredom in mankind may well provide some drive, I don't think it put us on top of the evolutionary ladder. I believe in a Creator that is the author of Intelligent Design. He gave us an inate appetite to strive and grow.
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Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
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08/07/2016, 05:29 AM | #28 | |
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I do find the parallels between your method and the above freshwater setup interesting. The gentleman running that attributed his success to the stocking levels of fish/inverts/pods/worms and plants. This is the tank if it's of any interest http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/t...the-end.14521/ The signature is to be thought provoking (and perhaps entertaining) nothing more, it's based on a quote from my favorite author (Sir Terry Pratchett) in one of his novels. His novels despite being works of fiction provide a rather astute if a touch satirical representation of life in general. Another couple of quotes..... “Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom.” “The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.” “It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
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08/07/2016, 05:39 AM | #29 |
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Thank you for the link. Yes, the parallel is there. I like Tom's set up.
I laughed a lot when I read some of the quotes from Sir Terry Prachett. "The trouble with having an open mind is people will come along and insist on trying to put stuff in it." Thanks for the laugh.
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Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
08/07/2016, 05:59 AM | #30 | |
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"Perhaps it is boredom, not intelligence, that has propelled humans up the evolutionary ladder." _________ Reefed out Last edited by OllieNZ; 08/07/2016 at 06:08 AM. |
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08/07/2016, 06:21 AM | #31 | |
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Do you think my system with dual chambers on to catch particulate matter to keep the main reverse flow deep sand bed clean, will end up being a nutrient sink? I designed it to be a calc reactor/denitrator, with very low flow, It is working very well currently but it is somewhat new. What do you think about doing a Jaubert system with calcium reactor media for 4 inches and them an inch or two of course sand? |
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08/07/2016, 07:29 AM | #32 | |
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What size substrate is calcium reactor media? In my use of calcium reactors, I used Caribsea Crushed Coral with very good results. PS: I thought your Franentank thread was diffenitely outside the box of mainstream thinking. I found it very interesting and will be following your thread. Also, thank you for your service. I really think that it is neat that you have involved your 5 year old in this fascinating hobby.
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Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout Last edited by Subsea; 08/07/2016 at 07:36 AM. |
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08/07/2016, 10:50 AM | #33 | |
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Calcium reactor media varies in size, my main goal with is to have a more natural system that provides natural replenishment of minerals. I am striving for a tank that ranked care of itself and has superior stability. |
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08/07/2016, 02:43 PM | #34 |
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Paul, I have always enjoyed reading your post. You and I have always been a thorn in the side of the teckies. I have always focused on bacteria as the foundation for a thriving reef aquarium. Your recent focus on gut bacteria to improve fish immune systems intrigues me. During further research, I was amazed to find out that 80%-90% of neuro transmitters in the brains of people are produced in their intestines. Considering that these neuro transmitters effect every aspect of human physiology, it is an easy deduction for me to see enhanced immunity as a natural response to these bacteria. Keep it coming.
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08/07/2016, 04:24 PM | #35 |
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Subsea, it is too early for most people to grasp this. They are still in the quarantine and sterile, "don't let any dirt, bacteria, parasites into your tank" phase. Just like us humans were at the turn of the century. Eventually they will learn. I will be gone then, but it will happen.
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I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971 |
08/07/2016, 04:42 PM | #36 | |
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Paul and SubSeas, I was watching food 4 partt series on Netflix, and one was dedicated to bacteria and fungi. Not only do chefs use bacteria and fungi to create awesome flavors and textures, they spoke about the health benefits. For example, fermentation in making bread from whole wheat (not the supermarket fake stuff) sustained human society for eons. Now we strip out all the good nutrients of wheat leaving empty carbs. The sterile tank approach reminds me of what we have done to our own food chain. |
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08/07/2016, 04:52 PM | #37 |
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That is correct, but like I said, we will eventually learn. It will take some time though. I am also at fault because I was here at the start of this hobby and I also didn't get it for many years. Now my fish are immune and I never have to go on disease or quarantine threads and basically ignore them.
I try to tell people how I feel we should get our fish healthy and immune but I gave up on this site because it turns into arguments and I am to old to argue. I get nasty letters telling me how I am a detriment to the hobby for telling people these things. This is a very large site with many people and they all have opinions. Many people started last Tuesday and they are of course correct. So I gave up on here.
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I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971 |
08/07/2016, 05:04 PM | #38 | |
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Natural Reefer Current Tank Info: 600 gallon Carribean Reef System, ETSS Protein Skimmer, 1.5HP Tradewinds Chiller, Reef Breeders Photon V2+ LED Lighting For The Refugium, Mitra LX7206 LED Lights For Display Tank |
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08/07/2016, 05:10 PM | #39 |
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I like miracle mud personally. Any time it comes up in an RC thread, it seems to turn into an argument claiming the creator is just a schiester, and the product is just mud from his backyard or something.
Some people really do seem to have a personal problem with it. My system is almost 500 gallons with about 375 gallons functioning as various types of refugium areas. Also a frag grow-out and an area for miracle mud. Daniel. |
08/07/2016, 07:59 PM | #40 |
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Daniel,
I have an EcoSystem mud filter. To the best of my knowledge, miracle mud provides an inert fine silt that can be colonized by worms. In my application, I allowed unfiltered tank water to deposit detritus as a nutrient source to feed worms and pods. They performed nutrient recycling and feed filter feeders in the tank. This could also be used as an unlit refugium for pods. Some of the original miracle mud that was analyzed showed high iron content. I consider trace mineral addittion of iron a good think in our reef tanks.
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Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
08/08/2016, 02:27 AM | #41 |
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I really wonder how when so many systems we admire use it, and so many aquarists we look up to would not start a tank without it, that people still lobby that it is a waste of money.
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08/08/2016, 04:38 AM | #42 | |
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Generally speaking, reef hobbiest are passionate about their systems. Sometimes it is like discussing religion or politics. Instead of a dialogue, it's a discourse with people not hearing the other point of view. All to often, equipment manufactures have a following of lobiest that are proponents of that method. Many differrent methods of reef keeping will work. The methods used in nano and pico tanks would not be the same as those of us with large extended systems.
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Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout |
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08/08/2016, 08:07 AM | #44 | |
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I think it's good for out of the box thinking to be shared.
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08/08/2016, 08:16 AM | #45 | |
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I add bacteria and mud a few times a year and get "reprimanded" for it. I run a reverse UG filter and get "reprimanded for it. I never quarantine and get "reprimanded for it. I create typhoons and get reprimanded for it. I dose driveway ice melter and baking soda and get reprimanded for it. I collect amphipods in the sea and dump them in my tank and get reprimanded for it. I also have the longest running very healthy system where everything spawns, but many people don't want to hear that because my methods can't possibly work. My fish also can't be immune as that is impossible so it must be luck. Of course my fish have never been exposed to velvet because that would crash my tank so I am really lucky. I got my fireclowns when Reagan was President. (I am not sure they voted for him or not) Of course I can't add any tangs because they are ich magnets and are never immune. I am certainly not the God of fish, not the smartest one on here and my tank if far from the best tank on here and I am much better with fish than corals but in 60 years I have learned a lot of things not to do. I have no opinion on Miracle Mud as I have never used it because I have access to real mud and it is free.
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I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971 |
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08/08/2016, 08:33 AM | #46 | |
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08/08/2016, 08:38 AM | #47 |
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If we more or less stay out of it we would have much less problems. Our animals evolved right alongside bacteria, parasites and what many of us consider pests. Seawater is also quite stable as long as we don't mess with it. I never tweeked the pH in my life and never will.
I rarely tweek, use no carbon, have no controllers, no GFO, no bio pellets, no quarantine, and no problems.
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I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971 |
08/08/2016, 10:28 AM | #48 |
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Yay, one of my favorite topics
I've been enjoying the reef hobby for over 3 decades (saltwater for 4) and have rarely used a skimmer, GAC, etc. My last 55g ran nearly 10 years before I took it down. I currently run a 12g mixed reef cube which has been in continual operation for over 8 years using the same 'natural filtration' principles. The stability inherent in these 'simple' systems is what makes them so long lived, in my opinion. Last edited by Nano sapiens; 08/08/2016 at 11:28 AM. |
08/08/2016, 12:05 PM | #49 | |
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Adding natural sand/mud to your system has worked well for you and I can see the potential benefits. Since many reef keepers are land-locked and don't have access to the ocean, aquarists can do a few things that help ensure that the existing strains of bacteria in a healthy reef tank continue to thrive long-term. I typically don't add new live sand or live rock once a reef system is established. MY LR and most of my LS is around 18 years old now and whatever bacterial strains the material has acquired do their jobs well. In order to keep the bacteria productive, I regularly remove detritus from the system which allows sufficient flow/nutrients to get to the bacteria as well as remove excess organic material from the system. The system gets a weekly 'Storm' treatment with a turkey baster, too, about an hour or so before I vacuum any detritus from the sand bed (advective principle used here to advantage). And equally important, no chemical substances of any kind to eradicate 'XYZ' pests or diseases added to the system as many of these can adversely effect the beneficial bacteria in the system. Last edited by Nano sapiens; 08/08/2016 at 12:42 PM. |
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08/08/2016, 12:30 PM | #50 | |
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