DIY- "Pins" method of gluing acrylic. - Page 16

melev · 10/27/2006, 08:21 PM

I think you did a nice job. Now that you are done practicing, are you ready to make the final version?

highquality · 10/27/2006, 09:40 PM

What is the final version?

swedge · 10/28/2006, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by highquality
Swedge, what thickness acrylic did you use there? just curious if i should be worried about my back panel.

I used 1/4" all around. The dimensions are 26" x 18" x 16". I was impressed that there was less bowing than expect on the front panel, but I'll brace it anyway as a peace of mind issue.

highquality · 10/28/2006, 08:06 AM

I may do the same - well it looks good swedge.

swedge · 10/28/2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by highquality
I may do the same - well it looks good swedge.

I like the 'built-in' overflow you created. If I ever convice my wife to let me have a coral grow-out tank in the basement, I think I'll copy your design. It looks great.

highquality · 10/28/2006, 01:47 PM

Swedge- thanks, i got that idea from the Calfo overflow , but my teeth are not across the whole side . melev / acrylics- I was glueinga small brace on the tank near the overflow, while the tank is half full of saltwater. really smart ,
I know. A very small run of #4 ran into the tank water. How bad is that? Will it harm my corals when i load the tank in a few days?

highquality · 10/28/2006, 02:15 PM

highquality · 10/28/2006, 02:17 PM

melev · 10/29/2006, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by highquality
Swedge- thanks, i got that idea from the Calfo overflow , but my teeth are not across the whole side . melev / acrylics- I was glueinga small brace on the tank near the overflow, while the tank is half full of saltwater. really smart ,
I know. A very small run of #4 ran into the tank water. How bad is that? Will it harm my corals when i load the tank in a few days?

MY guess is it isn't a problem, because some reef tanks have been mended with Weld-On while the livestock was still inside. Try not to add any more though.

Acrylics · 10/29/2006, 02:26 PM

Agree w/ Marc on that - won't be a problem. I've done much worse with no ill effects though I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.

James

melev · 10/31/2006, 12:59 AM

Hey James, do you ever have a bad can of Weld-On #4? My last can acted like every other can, but the seams looked horrible to me (I'm my own worst critic). I opened a new can last night, and every seam looks amazing. I had no idea it could be such a difference.

Here I thought all along I wasn't prepping the edges well enough, etc...

Then again, the weather is beautiful now so I have fresh air blowing through the house all day now. Maybe it was trapped humidity from running the a/c around the clock with my 280g evaporating into the living area.

Consider me confused.

Acrylics · 10/31/2006, 06:41 AM

Hi Marc,
IME, humidity causes blushing but not a *horrible* looking joint, Blushing being whiteness in and/or around the joint, we have a fairly humid climate here in OR as well - just not as warm

Have I ever had a bad can of WO 4, hmm, I won't use it

Their tolerances are far greater than any other solvent I know of, maybe it's to "protect" their secret solvent, but maybe it's so that when a "bad batch" goes out - it's still within spec. You can check their MSDS for more on this.
FWIW, their soltion was recently reformulated but they don't wannna talk about it. Check an old can vs a new can and you'll see what I'm referring to. I've heard nothing good about their new formulations in #3 & 4 from professiona; model makers.

HTH,
James

H20ENG · 10/31/2006, 10:36 AM

James,
Is there any further prep (other than the alcohol wipe) before using WO 40?

We used to have a can of "acrylic primer" by Sika that was used on our tunnel tube (Mitsubishi-Rayon, IIRC) ends before they were bonded with Polyurethane (expansion joints). That stuff was one of the most wicked solvents I have ever smelled. (The worst was Hecht rubber paint from Aquatic Eco, but the stuff worked great

)

Thanks James!
Chris

melev · 10/31/2006, 12:29 PM

I definitely had the blushing thing happen during the past few weeks. The last 48 hours worth of joints were picture perfect. I think the fresh air and the new can are both to blame.

jpndave · 10/31/2006, 09:51 PM

Marc, Just an FYI. A/C removes moisture from the air unless you have a humidifier. So running the A/C would be drier than without.

I have really enjoyed your website and this thread. Thanks all!! Hopefully I'll be starting a sump this weekend, and then a tank if all goes well.

While I am posting, would 3/8" cast acrylic be adequate for a 21" x 21" x 21" cube? How about Â¼â€ cast acrylic for a 20x20x16 high sump? I have WO #4. Will that be the best choice? And one last question, I have seen lots of recommendations for wire thicknesses here. Is the consensus for the pins .007 or thicker?

Thanks,

Dave

melev · 10/31/2006, 11:59 PM

Hi Dave,

3/8" Cast would be good for a 21 x 21 x 21 cube, assuming you do at a top flange.

1/4" for a 20 x 20 x 16 will still show some bowing.

#4 is perfectly fine.

I use super tiny accupuncture needles, but I think you've got it correct with .007 thick stainless steel wire.

jpndave · 11/01/2006, 07:07 AM

Thanks Marc!

I think I'll go ahead and order the accupuncture needles. I'll get the .007 and the size up from that (38 & 36 gauge) in 1" long. I may in the future build a larger tank that would require 1" acrylic (or maybe even larger). I assume that the 1/2" would be too short for that with the overhangs that are left to route off. Does that sound about right or do I want to go shorter or different sizes on the needles?

On the sump, do you think there will be significant bowing even with crossbracing? I may need to re think the sump if that is the case. What about adding a top ring? I was thinking something similar to Melev's model "M". I could add a cross brace through the refugium area if that would help. I already have the 1/4" so if I can make that work it would be better. If not, i'll go to 3/8".

Thanks again,

Dave

Acrylics · 11/01/2006, 07:30 AM

Chris,
I've just used an alcohol wipe prior to applying WO 40.

HTH,
James

melev · 11/01/2006, 11:36 AM

Dave, the ones I use are 35 gauge I believe. 38 and 36 should be fine. These are probably about 1.5" long, which works well for my projects.

Cross bracing is fine, if you don't mind them being in your way. I prefer the top flange (the ring you mentioned) with a 2" width all the way around the sump.

highquality · 11/02/2006, 06:48 PM

I have a ever so slight bow in the longer side panels. Maybe it will show up in a picture. I really do not want to put a cross brace on , but should I ? I am now realizing how much water this tank will hold. I originally thought since it was only 14 inches high I would not need to worry about the bowing while using 2 inch strips for bracing. now im rather concerned as I still have 4 inches or so to go filling it up.

melev · 11/02/2006, 08:16 PM

Do you plan to run this at 14" high all the time? Give us a measurement of how much deflection you are seeing.

highquality · 11/02/2006, 11:05 PM

Yes it will be full so the water will flow thru the teeth. if I were to put a straight edge over the edge I would probably see at least 1/8 of bow out. Really not crazy bowing but definately noticable if you look at it that way.

highquality · 11/02/2006, 11:12 PM

maybe you can tell here, tho its hard to see in thie picture.

highquality · 11/02/2006, 11:14 PM

As you can see there is still some more water to add. Should I add a 3-4 inch strip along the 4ft sides. I could bolt them on with plastic screws

melev · 11/02/2006, 11:32 PM

I would add the water and measure the deflection. That is the best way to decide what is needed.

10/27/2006, 09:40 PM	#377
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	What is the final version? __________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

10/28/2006, 01:47 PM	#381
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	Swedge- thanks, i got that idea from the Calfo overflow , but my teeth are not across the whole side . melev / acrylics- I was glueinga small brace on the tank near the overflow, while the tank is half full of saltwater. really smart , I know. A very small run of #4 ran into the tank water. How bad is that? Will it harm my corals when i load the tank in a few days? __________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

10/28/2006, 02:15 PM	#382
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	__________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

10/28/2006, 02:17 PM	#383
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	__________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

10/31/2006, 09:51 PM	#390
jpndave Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hyde Park, UT Posts: 207	A/C and humidity Marc, Just an FYI. A/C removes moisture from the air unless you have a humidifier. So running the A/C would be drier than without. I have really enjoyed your website and this thread. Thanks all!! Hopefully I'll be starting a sump this weekend, and then a tank if all goes well. While I am posting, would 3/8" cast acrylic be adequate for a 21" x 21" x 21" cube? How about Â¼â€ cast acrylic for a 20x20x16 high sump? I have WO #4. Will that be the best choice? And one last question, I have seen lots of recommendations for wire thicknesses here. Is the consensus for the pins .007 or thicker? Thanks, Dave

10/27/2006, 08:21 PM	#376
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I think you did a nice job. Now that you are done practicing, are you ready to make the final version?

10/28/2006, 08:06 AM	#379
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	I may do the same - well it looks good swedge.

10/29/2006, 02:26 PM	#385
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	Agree w/ Marc on that - won't be a problem. I've done much worse with no ill effects though I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. James

10/31/2006, 12:59 AM	#386
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Hey James, do you ever have a bad can of Weld-On #4? My last can acted like every other can, but the seams looked horrible to me (I'm my own worst critic). I opened a new can last night, and every seam looks amazing. I had no idea it could be such a difference. Here I thought all along I wasn't prepping the edges well enough, etc... Then again, the weather is beautiful now so I have fresh air blowing through the house all day now. Maybe it was trapped humidity from running the a/c around the clock with my 280g evaporating into the living area. Consider me confused.

10/31/2006, 06:41 AM	#387
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	Hi Marc, IME, humidity causes blushing but not a horrible looking joint, Blushing being whiteness in and/or around the joint, we have a fairly humid climate here in OR as well - just not as warm Have I ever had a bad can of WO 4, hmm, I won't use it Their tolerances are far greater than any other solvent I know of, maybe it's to "protect" their secret solvent, but maybe it's so that when a "bad batch" goes out - it's still within spec. You can check their MSDS for more on this. FWIW, their soltion was recently reformulated but they don't wannna talk about it. Check an old can vs a new can and you'll see what I'm referring to. I've heard nothing good about their new formulations in #3 & 4 from professiona; model makers. HTH, James

10/31/2006, 10:36 AM	#388
H20ENG Pro builder/aquarist hack Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NORCAL (Vacaville, CA) Posts: 5,125	James, Is there any further prep (other than the alcohol wipe) before using WO 40? We used to have a can of "acrylic primer" by Sika that was used on our tunnel tube (Mitsubishi-Rayon, IIRC) ends before they were bonded with Polyurethane (expansion joints). That stuff was one of the most wicked solvents I have ever smelled. (The worst was Hecht rubber paint from Aquatic Eco, but the stuff worked great ) Thanks James! Chris

10/31/2006, 12:29 PM	#389
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I definitely had the blushing thing happen during the past few weeks. The last 48 hours worth of joints were picture perfect. I think the fresh air and the new can are both to blame.

10/31/2006, 11:59 PM	#391
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Hi Dave, 3/8" Cast would be good for a 21 x 21 x 21 cube, assuming you do at a top flange. 1/4" for a 20 x 20 x 16 will still show some bowing. #4 is perfectly fine. I use super tiny accupuncture needles, but I think you've got it correct with .007 thick stainless steel wire.

11/01/2006, 07:07 AM	#392
jpndave Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hyde Park, UT Posts: 207	Thanks Marc! I think I'll go ahead and order the accupuncture needles. I'll get the .007 and the size up from that (38 & 36 gauge) in 1" long. I may in the future build a larger tank that would require 1" acrylic (or maybe even larger). I assume that the 1/2" would be too short for that with the overhangs that are left to route off. Does that sound about right or do I want to go shorter or different sizes on the needles? On the sump, do you think there will be significant bowing even with crossbracing? I may need to re think the sump if that is the case. What about adding a top ring? I was thinking something similar to Melev's model "M". I could add a cross brace through the refugium area if that would help. I already have the 1/4" so if I can make that work it would be better. If not, i'll go to 3/8". Thanks again, Dave

11/01/2006, 07:30 AM	#393
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	Chris, I've just used an alcohol wipe prior to applying WO 40. HTH, James

11/01/2006, 11:36 AM	#394
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Dave, the ones I use are 35 gauge I believe. 38 and 36 should be fine. These are probably about 1.5" long, which works well for my projects. Cross bracing is fine, if you don't mind them being in your way. I prefer the top flange (the ring you mentioned) with a 2" width all the way around the sump.

11/02/2006, 06:48 PM	#395
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	I have a ever so slight bow in the longer side panels. Maybe it will show up in a picture. I really do not want to put a cross brace on , but should I ? I am now realizing how much water this tank will hold. I originally thought since it was only 14 inches high I would not need to worry about the bowing while using 2 inch strips for bracing. now im rather concerned as I still have 4 inches or so to go filling it up. __________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

11/02/2006, 08:16 PM	#396
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Do you plan to run this at 14" high all the time? Give us a measurement of how much deflection you are seeing.

11/02/2006, 11:05 PM	#397
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	Yes it will be full so the water will flow thru the teeth. if I were to put a straight edge over the edge I would probably see at least 1/8 of bow out. Really not crazy bowing but definately noticable if you look at it that way. __________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

11/02/2006, 11:12 PM	#398
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	maybe you can tell here, tho its hard to see in thie picture. __________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

11/02/2006, 11:14 PM	#399
highquality Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: n.c. Posts: 550	As you can see there is still some more water to add. Should I add a 3-4 inch strip along the 4ft sides. I could bolt them on with plastic screws __________________ " If you can touch people with wildlife, then they want to save it." Steve Irwin Current Tank Info: One of my tanks is a 50 gallon Mini Reef - 250 wt 20k on a PFO mag. ballast - a 250 wt krystal star 11k on a dynamic E-ballast - ASM G2 1/2 skimmer -TLF phosban reactor with 1 1/2 carbon in it -

11/02/2006, 11:32 PM	#400
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I would add the water and measure the deflection. That is the best way to decide what is needed.