130 X 36 x 36 inbound...any suggestions?

[caribfan]

I'll have to watch my angels more closely than usual, but I haven't noticed the stringy poop or bubbles.

Thanks for the info, bummer for Larry. Strange since it was his food that go the male GP to eat if I remember correctly. Any complaints from the adult GP out in Hawaii?

[humaguy]

it affected the Gp babies...

[caribfan]

Oh boy

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by humaguy

I have gotten many emails about Larry's Reef Frenzy foods and fish getting bloat again...

Here is my experience...

I stopped feeding it to the Gp and centropyge angels , BOTH qt, because it was causing bloat...others have reported quite severe cases..

I decided to try it again to see what happens, so, I fed Larry's Reef Frenzy this past wed to the Gp. This was the first time in many months I fed it to them. It was only a tiny amount mixed in with their other food...
yesterday the largest Gp had long, white stringy poop, and I saw bubbles upon release...ugh...
Done...NEVER going in the Gp tank again....may try the same thing with the 125 tomorrow and will let you know what happens...but, be careful...!

So, I stopped feeding Larry's Reef Frenzy to the GP tank and the 125 qt tank permanently or until it is centropyge free...
The Cocos Lemon and Jocs in the dt have stringy white poop and I absolutely believe that it is also caused by Larry's Reef Frenzy...

After much speculation and lab testing, the reason LRF gives the Gp bloat is unknown...but I suspect the underlying cause will be the same with all the fish that are affected by it...

Careful...

Well this won't help LRF out... The million dollar question like Matt asked what are you feeding the kids now?

[nuxx]

Originally Posted by humaguy

it affected the Gp babies...

Wow was about to order some...

Guess I'll stick with Rod's and other generic Mysis/brine etc... for meaty frozen foods...

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

Well this won't help LRF out... The million dollar question like Matt asked what are you feeding the kids now?

same as always..spir brine, plankton, angel/butterfly blend, live brine/black worm/pods, nori, fresh seafood etc...

[Dmorty217]

Originally Posted by humaguy

same as always..spir brine, plankton, angel/butterfly blend, live brine/black worm/pods, nori, fresh seafood etc...

Obviously Larry doesn't know what's causing this? Is it causing bloat in Karens broodstock too or just in the babies?

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

Obviously Larry doesn't know what's causing this? Is it causing bloat in Karens broodstock too or just in the babies?

No, but Karen was the one having all the lab testing done, not Larry..
many different ingredients were considered...
It was seen in the babies, quite consistently by many...these observations were made prior to MACNA, 2014, this is not a "new" thing...

I only saw it 2 times and thought my cooler water was assisting the digestion process but during this time I did see it in all my Cocos Lemons and Jocs in the dt...have since seen it 2 more times when I tried to reintroduce the food. As mentioned, I saw bad things almost immediately...

The Cocos and jocs were totally healthy fish...

I heard yesterday that it (long white stringy poop) was recently seen in a 22 year old Regal that was perfectly healthy...

So, if you are feeding Larry's Reef Frenzy and have fish displaying long, white stringy poop and you might see bubbles when the string is released.....

STOP feeding Larry's Reef Frenzy and see if it clears up...it may take several days...

[humaguy]

btw, if you go back in the thread, I caught pics of the white stringy poop hanging from a Gp, I got lucky and also caught the bubbles on film...as mentioned, this is not new...

just be very careful and make sure you observe your fish....take an especially longer and closer look a few hours after feeding...

if you see these signs in any of your fish STOP feeding Larry's Reef Frenzy for a week and see if the stringy poop goes away...I bet it does....

[caribfan]

Man this sucks. I hate it for Larry and I hate it for the hobbyist who love his food too.

Truthfully, I'm not quite sure what to feed now. As far as blends and pre-made foods go, I don't really have any that I like. That is what was great about his foods, I could feed one thing and pretty much cover all the bases.

I still haven't seen the white stringy issue, but I'm watching closely now.

[Wistler]

I don't normally post on R/C since I am not a sponsor but someone alerted me to the direction this post was headed so I figured "why not." I don't think publicly defending allegations about a product is considered "advertising" and agains the RC rules?

To clear the air Ted and I have had a falling out as recently as 2/13/15 which resulted in me being unable to sell or supply him with LRS foods in the future. The "falling out" had zero to do with the contents of this thread. Infer from that what you wish.

With that being said there were issues with the juvenile Gp as noted by Karen just weeks before MACNA. After feeding she would experience a buoyancy issue and steps where made by LRS to try and determine the root cause. We mailed her frozen batches of modified foods without garlic, without any veggies, minus the probiotics, etc. over a period of a few weeks.

Several of the fish were separated into QT tanks and fed differing diets to try and determine what ingredients were causing the buoyancy issues. Meanwhile to confuse matters, others such as Andrew Sandler was feeding LRS daily with no deleterious effects and Todd Gardner who has a handful of Gp at his lab was seeing minor buoyancy issues an hour after feeding ANY food from any manufacturer, including brine shrimp. Karen stopped feeding the LRS to the juvenile Gp because the issue of what ingredient may be the culprit was never found. It seemed the fish would feed, become a little buoyant and then settle down in an hour or two. Karen continued to feed LRS to the broodstock but did say she was going to refrain from feeding LRS to the juveniles for a period of time.

To note, Karen received a fresh order of LRS foods this week including Herbivore Frenzy as well as the new blackworm and fish egg enhanced Fish Frenzy blends. Obviously she is not "gun shy" with LRS across the board and continues to feed it to broodstock.

Last month LRS was invited to be a sponsor of the Rising Tide Conservation Program and we have been sending foods to the Tropical Aquaculture Lab in Florida. The results documented by Kevin Barden, the on staff Biological Scientist were as follows:

"I’ve been feeding your diets exclusively to our broodstock here (blue tangs, yellow tangs, schooling bannerfish, Bartlett’s anthias, milletseed butterflyfish, emperor angelfish and koran angelfish), and I’m impressed with what I’m seeing. What I really like about it is I can see fish eating things I’ve never been able to get them to select for specifically, and getting them a well-balanced varied diet."

Due to their results we have agreed to provide food to multiple locations for ongoing testing regarding egg counts and increased larval hatch rates when feeding LRS. In addition to providing foods to other facilities such as FishEye Aquaculture, LRS was just vetted and brought on board as a food vendor for one of the largest public aquarium chains in the world. After using our foods with great success they are now preparing to feed LRS to delicate exhibits in public aquariums. LRS continues to ship food to elite fish keepers such as Koji Wada and others in places such as Hong Kong and recently Lebanon Beirut and no negative effects have been reported.

I spoke with Andrew via email just now and his response was "no issues" when asked how his Gp were doing. Next week while attending the NERAC conference in Long Island I will see Todd Gardner and since we recently shipped him LRS I will confirm he has no issues as well when feeding LRS to the Gp under his care.

It seems suspect that after shipping thousands upon thousands of packs of food each month to hobbyists, retail stores and breeders with nary a complaint over the past three years that this thread takes a downward turn after I de-friended Ted on Facebook two weeks ago. Disappointed to say the least.

Larry DuPont
Owner
LRS Foods, LLC

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by Wistler

I don't normally post on R/C since I am not a sponsor but someone alerted me to the direction this post was headed so I figured "why not." I don't think publicly defending allegations about a product is considered "advertising" and agains the RC rules?

To clear the air Ted and I have had a falling out as recently as 2/13/15 which resulted in me being unable to sell or supply him with LRS foods in the future. The "falling out" had zero to do with the contents of this thread. Infer from that what you wish.

With that being said there were issues with the juvenile Gp as noted by Karen just weeks before MACNA. After feeding she would experience a buoyancy issue and steps where made by LRS to try and determine the root cause. We mailed her frozen batches of modified foods without garlic, without any veggies, minus the probiotics, etc. over a period of a few weeks.

Several of the fish were separated into QT tanks and fed differing diets to try and determine what ingredients were causing the buoyancy issues. Meanwhile to confuse matters, others such as Andrew Sandler was feeding LRS daily with no deleterious effects and Todd Gardner who has a handful of Gp at his lab was seeing minor buoyancy issues an hour after feeding ANY food from any manufacturer, including brine shrimp. Karen stopped feeding the LRS to the juvenile Gp because the issue of what ingredient may be the culprit was never found. It seemed the fish would feed, become a little buoyant and then settle down in an hour or two. Karen continued to feed LRS to the broodstock but did say she was going to refrain from feeding LRS to the juveniles for a period of time.

To note, Karen received a fresh order of LRS foods this week including Herbivore Frenzy as well as the new blackworm and fish egg enhanced Fish Frenzy blends. Obviously she is not "gun shy" with LRS across the board and continues to feed it to broodstock.

Last month LRS was invited to be a sponsor of the Rising Tide Conservation Program and we have been sending foods to the Tropical Aquaculture Lab in Florida. The results documented by Kevin Barden, the on staff Biological Scientist were as follows:

"I’ve been feeding your diets exclusively to our broodstock here (blue tangs, yellow tangs, schooling bannerfish, Bartlett’s anthias, milletseed butterflyfish, emperor angelfish and koran angelfish), and I’m impressed with what I’m seeing. What I really like about it is I can see fish eating things I’ve never been able to get them to select for specifically, and getting them a well-balanced varied diet."

Due to their results we have agreed to provide food to multiple locations for ongoing testing regarding egg counts and increased larval hatch rates when feeding LRS. In addition to providing foods to other facilities such as FishEye Aquaculture, LRS was just vetted and brought on board as a food vendor for one of the largest public aquarium chains in the world. After using our foods with great success they are now preparing to feed LRS to delicate exhibits in public aquariums. LRS continues to ship food to elite fish keepers such as Koji Wada and others in places such as Hong Kong and recently Lebanon Beirut and no negative effects have been reported.

I spoke with Andrew via email just now and his response was "no issues" when asked how his Gp were doing. Next week while attending the NERAC conference in Long Island I will see Todd Gardner and since we recently shipped him LRS I will confirm he has no issues as well when feeding LRS to the Gp under his care.

It seems suspect that after shipping thousands upon thousands of packs of food each month to hobbyists, retail stores and breeders with nary a complaint over the past three years that this thread takes a downward turn after I de-friended Ted on Facebook two weeks ago. Disappointed to say the least.

Larry DuPont
Owner
LRS Foods, LLC

If you check my thread, I gave your food a thumbs up as recently as last week when I mentioned the black worms...I am getting emails about the white stringy poop...I kept quiet about it prior to MACNA and after but now feel free about saying there were issues....In fact, I was virtually the only one who didn't have issues and that was also discussed in here and with you, Karen, Andrew, and the others who received the Gp...

Btw, it is Karen's 22 year old Regal that has the white stringy poop.

[hedgedrew]

Hello everyone. Settle down. Hello Ted. Hello Larry. Just imho the bloat on these deeper ware fish is probably from less atmosphere of pressure exerted on the fish than they used to in shallow tanks I have had issues with several deep water fish including the peppsvand narcosis and those basssbei flys with swim bladder issues or wabbly swimming or even upsidedown swimming. To my knowledge it was never food specific My gp' s are just fine and we feed several things including larrys. I never experienced the white poop either. Who knows what's going on.

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by hedgedrew

Hello everyone. Settle down. Hello Ted. Hello Larry. Just imho the bloat on these deeper ware fish is probably from less atmosphere of pressure exerted on the fish than they used to in shallow tanks I have had issues with several deep water fish including the peppsvand narcosis and those basssbei flys with swim bladder issues or wabbly swimming or even upsidedown swimming. To my knowledge it was never food specific My gp' s are just fine and we feed several things including larrys. I never experienced the white poop either. Who knows what's going on.

Thanks Drew...
Fortunately I have every single text, email, and correspondence saved..
The bloat was caused by something in their diet.
The lab tests showed the fish were having a tough time digesting 1 or more ingredients, the Gp that was sent in had a colon that was over extended with gas and in the vet's opinion it would take from 1-4 weeks for a fish to stop bloating after the indigestible food has been removed from the fish's diet...

[humaguy]

this was a response to a pm from a couple minutes ago...

Originally Posted by humaguy

Hey Jason,

They are great fish but do tend to be shy..try Larry's Reef Frenzy, esp with black worms, that should help!

After she is eating, she should accept anything!

Let me know how it goes.

keep your eyes peeled for lymph, little navarchus seem to always get it.

TK

I am honest will not lie...it is a great food for many fish but def causes bloat in my GP and some of my centropyge...

[hedgedrew]

These fish are particularly sensitive. When I put enroflaxen (baytril) in food during our period of infection, the babies swam upside down and went away as soon as I stopped it.

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by hedgedrew

These fish are particularly sensitive. When I put enroflaxen (baytril) in food during our period of infection, the babies swam upside down and went away as soon as I stopped it.

I have not needed to med but overall, do find them fairly hardy...

[hedgedrew]

They are. But something in digestive track makes them more sensitive to swim bladder issues or bloating. They responded well to kanamycin and other antibiotics in water column but it did stunt their growth while under antibiotics

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by hedgedrew

They are. But something in digestive track makes them more sensitive to swim bladder issues or bloating. They responded well to kanamycin and other antibiotics in water column but it did stunt their growth while under antibiotics

yeah, the food...
that's it..that is the only issue we have had...you had an infection, but everybody else has had bloat to one degree or another..

[teemee]

Sadly, don't have GPs, but I do feed Reef Frenzy to my pair of Centropyge aurantia, and a few other deep water fish (P. ventralis) and have had no signs of bloat, thankfully. Do you still have this problem now that you're no longer using it? What are you using now?

[Jasanden]

Originally Posted by humaguy

this was a response to a pm from a couple minutes ago...

Originally Posted by humaguy
Hey Jason,

They are great fish but do tend to be shy..try Larry's Reef Frenzy, esp with black worms, that should help!

After she is eating, she should accept anything!

Let me know how it goes.

keep your eyes peeled for lymph, little navarchus seem to always get it.

TK



I am honest will not lie...it is a great food for many fish but def causes bloat in my GP and some of my centropyge...

This was an answer to my pm about a finicky eater. Ted is a good guy and still suggesting your food to people looking for a something that fish love.

[Dmorty217]

More to the point I don't think that anyone believes for a second that Ted is making this up... There is nothing for him to gain by embellishing what is happening to his kids when feeding Larry's.

[griseum]

I'd like to just point something out. Ive seen someones GPs in person, and they definitely were not suffering bloat, neither swim-bladder related or gas-caused. Yet it seems that other GP's do suffer the symptoms as Ted describes, as well as Karen, along with some Centropyge species.

Perhaps it is safe to say that nobody is slanting the truth, and that individual fish are reacting differently to a specific ingredient that is in a certain batches of LRS foods! If it was a common ingredient, say clam meat, that was bought in bulk and used in batches of several of his blends, then it might show in certain fish no matter which blend the aquarist is feeding. That is up to Larry to divulge.

Probiotics in fish is an interesting concept as well. Different Taxa/species of fish have a differnt bacterial flora inside their gut, which aids in digestion of whichever type of food that fish feeds on. Be it an herbivore, which studies have shown rely heavily on bacteria to help digest Algae, or an Omnivore, that eats both algae and meaty items.

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by Jasanden

This was an answer to my pm about a finicky eater. Ted is a good guy and still suggesting your food to people looking for a something that fish love.

Thank you J...

[humaguy]

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

More to the point I don't think that anyone believes for a second that Ted is making this up... There is nothing for him to gain by embellishing what is happening to his kids when feeding Larry's.

Thanks...

Karen was the first person who reported seeing bloat in the Gp last August and all who have them have seen it...this is a forum where we share what works and what does not work...

more to the point- many of you thought I was working for or with Larry, that I was his shill...I never received anything, zero, nada, as compensation for all I did for him...

oops, I made the mistake of saying, "look at all I did for you, how about sending me some free food? " he totally shut me down and lol, defriended me on fb...I am not the first...

overall, it is most definitely the best food I have ever used...

However, I will never feed it to my Gp or centropyge....and if you see any white stringy poop hanging from your fish or worse see any buoyancy issues, STOP feeding it and see if that condition clears up....

If you want to see a pic of the poop and bubbles there are pics in here from months ago...

My dad would have said, "no good deed goes unpunished."

Ted