ARID E18 reactor (Phosphate Control!!!)

[JB NY]

Yes I using the Salifert test.

[maxxII]

Does anyone make a better NO3 test kit?

By better, I mean not the way Salifert does their NO3 kit where you have to compare color graduations to determine NO3 levels?

Something that works the Salifert's Ca, DKH, or Mg would be great....much easier to determine a color change instead of color differences.....

[JB NY]

Not that I know of.

[2_zoa]

You mentioned iron dosing. I did a simple experiment with iron. I mixed up a fresh gallon of ASW, and dosed it with PO4. I then tested it with my hanna checker and got the proper reading for the amount of PO4 dosed. I then dosed iron and let it mix for about 15 mins. Then I retested and got a zero reading. I have no idea if the test is being fooled by the iron or if the iron bound up the PO4. I know GFO is iron so.

Just putting that out there.

[ca1ore]

This seems like a pretty nifty idea, with a price tag to match; but is it really better than a well-designed refugium? I have an elevated sump and light my chaeto from the top,and the bottom and get very good growth. What makes this better? Not trolling; genuinely interested.

[JB NY]

Think of it like a skimmer, price wise. I had a refugium, I couldn't get it to work this good.

[maxxII]

Originally Posted by 2_zoa

You mentioned iron dosing. I did a simple experiment with iron. I mixed up a fresh gallon of ASW, and dosed it with PO4. I then tested it with my hanna checker and got the proper reading for the amount of PO4 dosed. I then dosed iron and let it mix for about 15 mins. Then I retested and got a zero reading. I have no idea if the test is being fooled by the iron or if the iron bound up the PO4. I know GFO is iron so.

Just putting that out there.

The iron supplement is a mix of Iron and Manganese. What ratios they are mixed together, I dont know. You are correct regarding GFO being iron which absorbs PO4. However, I dont know how the Iron & Manganese supplement mixture could be so potent that 6 drops per day are able to absorb the amount of PO4 my system has/had, when ALOT of GFO and 10% weekly water changes were not able to keep it below 0.08-0.1 ppm for 7 days.

I dont think its merely a matter of iron "fooling" the test, since I've also noticed a significant decrease in glass cleaning/scraping and a decrease in Cyano.

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not a scientist, and I have a sample size of one.
So this is really anecdotal observations, vs a scientific test.

The whole purpose of me starting this thread was to spark discussion and get some other viewpoints and observations out there. If anyone out there has a better method of NO3 and PO4 control, and can point out ways to improve this or better yet, get me the same results without the ARID and without spending the money on it...I'm all ears.

I'm interested in the results of this, not the means per se...

Hope that makes sense.

Originally Posted by ca1ore

This seems like a pretty nifty idea, with a price tag to match; but is it really better than a well-designed refugium? I have an elevated sump and light my chaeto from the top,and the bottom and get very good growth. What makes this better? Not trolling; genuinely interested.

I dont necessarily think the ARID is "better" than what you've got going. Rather, a different way of achieving it.

I tried a traditional refugium a couple of different times, all with negative results. Obviously, some of that is due to my unique circumstances regarding my tank being in the basement, and me not being able to get good solid growth out Chaeto. I couldnt get it to tumble right, so only one side was getting lit and growing while the bottom was dying and releasing nutrients.

Honestly, I never thought of the lighting from below approach either...I dont know if that would have worked for me or not.

IMO, if you're already able to maintain your PO4 and NO3 levels without the ARID, and it's not costing you more than the ARID to do so...then I wouldnt change a thing.

Where I think the ARID shines over a traditional Refugium, (nutrient export only) is in space savings. If you have a limited amount of space, and want to run a fuge for nutrient export, this thing rocks!

If you are just setting up an add on refugium to handle an NO3/PO4, (or both) issue, the cost to do so will end up close to what I paid for this, (albeit less I think, but not by alot) when you factor in the cost of the tank, baffles, plumbing, feed pump, drilling the tank, buying lighting and the monthly cost to run it all etc.

Obviously, if you've been in the hobby for awhile, you probably have spares, or old items lying around that can be used for making a Refugium which would save you money.

I'm not married to the ARID, and I dont think it's the All-Singing-All-Dancing solution to the eternal NO3/PO4 problem.

I DO think it's a valuable option, and in my case, has managed to do things in under a month, that I've never been able to do.

I'm very much aware of how many folks get personally invested in their purchases, and how the more expensive such items are, the more virulent and "Zealot-y" a person can become. To that end, I'm trying to report my observations as unbiased as I can. I'm not trying to preach the koolaid flavor of the week to whoever signs on.

I hope I didnt come off as argumentative....nothing could be further from the truth here. I'm genuinely wanting give and take from anyone reading this.

For me, the ARID works. I'm very excited about reef keeping again. I was very close to throwing in the towel...seriously.

But I dont think it will be the magic bullet for every aquarium.




I need to get some sleep. I've been up since 315 am this morning and I only got 2.5 hours of sleep before that....so I'm pretty fried.

I'm sure I'll read this in the morning and wish I hadnt posted a reply til morning.


G'night all.

[maxxII]

Originally Posted by JB NY

Think of it like a skimmer, price wise. I had a refugium, I couldn't get it to work this good.

Excellent observation Joe....I wish I'd made that connection myself.

Yeah....off to bed now.

[ca1ore]

OK, thanks for the thoughtful and sensible responses. I totally 'get' the notion of a purpose-designed device to grow chaeto, and there's something appealing about the neatness of the reactor. It would also free up space in my sump to perhaps focus a bit more on pod growth. As I said before, it's a pretty nifty idea and I liked it a lot when I saw them at the FFM in CT earlier this year. Almost bought one then

[dakota1972]

Where did you purchase this from can't seem to find them anywhere

[2_zoa]

Originally Posted by maxxII

The iron supplement is a mix of Iron and Manganese. What ratios they are mixed together, I dont know. You are correct regarding GFO being iron which absorbs PO4. However, I dont know how the Iron & Manganese supplement mixture could be so potent that 6 drops per day are able to absorb the amount of PO4 my system has/had, when ALOT of GFO and 10% weekly water changes were not able to keep it below 0.08-0.1 ppm for 7 days.

I dont think its merely a matter of iron "fooling" the test, since I've also noticed a significant decrease in glass cleaning/scraping and a decrease in Cyano.

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not a scientist, and I have a sample size of one.
So this is really anecdotal observations, vs a scientific test.

The whole purpose of me starting this thread was to spark discussion and get some other viewpoints and observations out there. If anyone out there has a better method of NO3 and PO4 control, and can point out ways to improve this or better yet, get me the same results without the ARID and without spending the money on it...I'm all ears.

I'm interested in the results of this, not the means per se...

Hope that makes sense.

When I dosed my 65 with iron I dosed Randy's diy iron using Fergon tablets. I dosed the recommended amount of .25-1.25ml per 50 gals. I dosed my 65 at .25-.50ml to the tank. So that was more then your 6 drops in your 120. I actually got to where I dosed PO4 to my tank. I had to dose a lot of PO4 to see any effects. When they did show (visually) it was on the glass and not in the test kit.

In your case, you have something I didnt/don't. That's algae. So that IMO should be considered when thinking about where your PO4 reading went. I had a thread about adding PO4 and Randy commented stating that he didn't think that the iron was or is foolin the test. I still can't get a reading on my checker and I've not gone after PO4 in a good while. GlennF uses iron to control PO4

I would imagine a liquid would be much more efficient at removing said problem over a solid in a reactor or passively sitting in the sump. Look how fast lanthium chloride works.

[moondoggy4]

Originally Posted by dakota1972

Where did you purchase this from can't seem to find them anywhere

Just google it, they are having a sale right now, not cheap.

[maxxII]

Originally Posted by dakota1972

Where did you purchase this from can't seem to find them anywhere

http://pax-bellum.com/

[maxxII]

Originally Posted by 2_zoa

When I dosed my 65 with iron I dosed Randy's diy iron using Fergon tablets. I dosed the recommended amount of .25-1.25ml per 50 gals. I dosed my 65 at .25-.50ml to the tank. So that was more then your 6 drops in your 120. I actually got to where I dosed PO4 to my tank. I had to dose a lot of PO4 to see any effects. When they did show (visually) it was on the glass and not in the test kit.

In your case, you have something I didnt/don't. That's algae. So that IMO should be considered when thinking about where your PO4 reading went. I had a thread about adding PO4 and Randy commented stating that he didn't think that the iron was or is foolin the test. I still can't get a reading on my checker and I've not gone after PO4 in a good while. GlennF uses iron to control PO4

I would imagine a liquid would be much more efficient at removing said problem over a solid in a reactor or passively sitting in the sump. Look how fast lanthium chloride works.

I was using significantly more LC in order to curb the PO4 and wasnt getting these kinds of results, much less for this long.

There is no doubt in my mind that the chaeto is where the NO3 and PO4 are going, and by trashing/selling the chaeto the LFS, I'm exporting it from my system.

I believe the iron manganese (IM) solution is beneficial to the cheato and not much more. I'm dosing it directly in to the sump, after the skimmer, into the same chamber the ARID reactor feed pump is at. For the 6 drops of IM to be binding that much PO4 it would have to go somewhere, and it isnt getting into the skimmer very well since it has go all through the system to get back to the skimmer.

Again, I'm not a scientist or even a chemistry guru.
If there is a Chemistry Special Ed class, I'm working to get into it...

But I do grasp how this works....simply put....

Chaeto in the cannister, plus lights and water flowing through it, means the Chaeto gets to strip NO3 and PO4 from the water column. Chaeto grows faster than other macro algae's so it is the best for this type of application.
Chaeto grows fast enough that NO3 and IM need to be added to the water to continue its growth, allowing it to continue to strip PO4 from the water.
The limiting factor becomes NO3 since it is stripped from the water faster than the PO4.

Continue adding NO3 to continue growing Chaeto so that it can continue to remove PO4.

I havent yet done a water change.
I havent had to change filter socks, (which was kind of a PITA due to my sump design and how my system..."evolved", (IE had tanks added on to it).
I am having to dose NO3 and IM.
And this is working for me so far.

[2_zoa]

I was thinking, in the end the important thing here is. The fact that the ARID has renewed your interest in the hobby. Like you mentioned, you were considering getting out. I'm glad you found something that works for your system and has given you much interest in your tank.


P.S. I can relate to the early mornings. I get up at 2:45am so I can start work at 4:00. Gets old come Friday.

[maxxII]

Ahh...thank you for that then. I still have a long way to go before I've got a tank I'm proud to show people....but this has definitely shown me a way to get there.

Rotating shifts for work suck.
I'd be deliriously happy to be able to get paid to stay at home and get up at 9am like a normal person.

[sabbath]

Interesting. This might be the answer to sumpless setups.

I wonder how much food per day one of these can keep nitrates and phosphates in check?

[maxxII]

05-29-2015

Just tested the tank today:

NO3 is the highest I’ve recorded since setting up the ARID - 0.3 to 0.4 ppm (salifert…cant tell for sure. It’s definitely between 0.2 ppm and 0.5 ppm)

PO4 is also the highest I’ve recorded since setting up the ARID at 0.03ppm (Hanna 96713).

These are the levels I’d like to keep the system at long term.

The cyano got so bad I had to hit it with Chemi-Clean. This wiped it out completely, but could also be the cause of the increase in NO3.

I goofed and raised the magnesium levels too much. Note to self….don’t fool with the tank when sleep deprived….

I don’t know that 1600 ppm is the cut off where Chaeto growth gets stunted. But I can verify that 1700 ppm definitely stunts its growth and pretty much causes growth to come to a standstill.

Between the Chemi-Clean and the magnesium levels, I had to do some water changes.

Magnesium is now down to 1500 ppm and my skimmer is back to working normally. Cyano is eradicated.

In the past two days, I’ve noticed a slight increase in the chaeto in the ARID reactor. So I expect my NO3 and PO4 levels to drop further and the chaeto to continue growing.

I don’t think I’ll pull as much chaeto out as I did before. I’m pretty sure I pulled too much out last time.

Basically, I’m figuring out that Tristan’s recommendations from the get go are correct.

Reading is Fundamental kids……

[SantaMonica]

The cyano got so bad I had to hit it with Chemi-Clean. This wiped it out completely, but could also be the cause of the increase in NO3

Yes killing a bunch of any organisms will put the nutrients back into the water.

[maxxII]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of cyano was no longer processing the NO3 in the water column.

There has been a huge growth in chaeto in the past two days. At least 40% or more.

NO3 was tested this morning and measured between 0.3 and 0.4 ppm. I'm leaning more towards 0.3 than 0.4, but it's tough for me to differentiate between them to any degree of certainty. PO4 measured at 0.00 ppm.


The ARID E18 has been running on my system for almost 6 weeks now. And I'm still very happy with it. Even when chaeto was not growing due to high magnesium levels, PO4 levels are at the lowest levels I've ever been able to manage.

I'm not going to harvest chaeto for at least another week, and this time, I'll be sure to remove no more than 1/3rd of it. Last time I pulled to much I think.

[maxxII]

06-14-2015

Pulled Chaeto out a few days ago. Pulled less than the first time, but still probably pulled more than I should have. I figure I pulled out about half of the chaeto this time.

Naturally, it went to the LFS for store credit.

Shortly after I harvested about half the chaeto in the reactor, the feed hose, (connected to a Maxijet 900) popped off the pump, draining the reactor and leaving the chaeto exposed, while the lights were running. This burned a fair amount of the cheato, turning it white and looking like over cooked spaghetti.

This is the second time this has happened, but it appears to be worse this time around. I will be adding a plastic locking hose clamp to the Maxi-jet end of the hose to prevent this from occurring again.

NO3 is at 2.5 ppm, (due to dosing NO3).
PO4 is at 0.00 ppm via Hanna 96713.

I did notice a slight growth of nuisance algae when I first started dosing NO3. However, as time has gone on, the nuisance algae in the tank is looking sickly and brown.

It's just a few days early, but after running the ARID E18 for almost 2 months, (Started April 17th), I have to state that I'm very very happy with the results and how it's working out.

Corals are looking much better and I'm seeing growth in the few acro frags I have. Over all, this is showing itself to be worth the money IMO.

[infusionluke]

Thanks for the review, really great info here! Threads like this keep the hobby evolving. please keep this thread updated with your results, failures, improvements, etc.
Subscribed!

[Older salty]

It has a longer name, Tristan told me what it is. Told me to do the 20 mule team to get the boron up. I didn't have much success. I had ran it for about.3 weeks. Will be getting more chateo in a day or two and will try again with my 90 gallon I previously had it setup with my 200 gallon. I don't have any corals at this time but it is my goal to have corals. I will see what happens this time and also get some plastic hose clamps.

[skydancer]

Any updates?

[SantaMonica]

Interested too.