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Unread 08/01/2011, 05:02 PM   #1
keh9qd
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Coral wholesalers who sell to non store front businesses?

I have been looking for a coral supplier that would sell to a non store front business. Im looking to doing online sales and local sales from my basement. I will have everything such as license and tax ID, but just cant seem to find a good supplier that will consider. Let me know if anyone can provide me with any leads, thanks.


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Unread 08/01/2011, 05:32 PM   #2
organism
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Have you thought through your business plan? A lot of basement vendors start off thinking wholesalers are going to send them all this great stuff, and then they don't know what to do with 3 big boxes full of brown/mediocre crap with 2-3 nice cherry pieces. That's livestock you can't even give away online, and you're going to have tons of it. I hope you like pests too, because those are pretty much a given.

Do you have a way of moving and storing, or even quarantining, a whole lot of not-so-nice and sometimes unhealthy corals?


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Unread 08/01/2011, 05:41 PM   #3
dahenley
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True....
I have a local guy that is doing what your wanting to do, and most wholesale places have a min $ or box order, and 3 boxes is a lot of stuff.....
not to mention, lots of the cherry stuff goes to those regulars that buy loads at a time, and are regulars. new people will get 1 nice box to start off (usually just a few pieces) and then lots of blaaa.

once you endure this for so long, and they know you will buy enough on a regular basis, then you might start getting a few nice ones for every hand full of garbage... (facts of life)

oh, and watch the corals too, because there is a lot of death due to stress and transfer and like mentioned... bugs..


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240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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Unread 08/01/2011, 06:18 PM   #4
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Pm sent.


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Current Tank Info: Many
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Unread 08/01/2011, 11:21 PM   #5
ebojo
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http://www.seadwelling.com/


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Unread 08/01/2011, 11:21 PM   #6
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^ i know they do lots of fish. maybe coral. worth a shot


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Unread 08/01/2011, 11:30 PM   #7
dahenley
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sorry.... thats a big NO for SDC

Quote:
• Possess a valid business license in the city, county or state that you conduct business in,
• Conduct business from a commercial environment (non-residential),
• Possess a re-sellers license (Businesses in California only), e-mail or fax the document below to SDC, and we'll contact you when the account has been approved.



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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-)

240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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Unread 08/01/2011, 11:49 PM   #8
dahenley
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pm sent


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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-)

240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:00 AM   #9
keh9qd
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Thanks for the responses guys (and pms) it is greatly appreciated. I have been thinking of details mentioned above and I'm going to be interested to see what comes up. I'm checking into the suppliers as we speak.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:01 AM   #10
ebojo
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^ ahh. never really looked into it. theres a local guy here that orders from them and sells out of his house.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:03 AM   #11
dahenley
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did the local guy ever have a store front, or maybe have a second business that he is using? there are ways around it, but they check locations and also keep a file with your gallonage... and what not.


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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-)

240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:20 AM   #12
organism
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keh9qd View Post
Thanks for the responses guys (and pms) it is greatly appreciated. I have been thinking of details mentioned above and I'm going to be interested to see what comes up. I'm checking into the suppliers as we speak.
Definitely keep those things in mind before ordering. Also, every wholesaler gets good things in, but the chances of a new, part-time small order account getting them are not good. You're competing for attention with shops who order $2-6k a week, every week.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:24 PM   #13
keh9qd
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Questions:

What is the typical price per box?

When you say junk or basic corals, what do you mean (not counting doa or parasite ridden)?

How many corals come in a box?


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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:36 PM   #14
dahenley
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10-20 corals depending on size and type.
Price depends on where you get them and what not..
Pests depends on your seller. All whole sellers buy and sell. No qt, so you get what they get. So pests depends on the shipment .....

When a wholesaler gets 200 green acros and a purple and a red, the red and purple will go to high end return customers and the greens will go to you. So when you order 10 Sps pieces you will get brown's and greens. They may be different shades of green, but still green....


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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-)

240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:46 PM   #15
dahenley
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Oh, and don't forget about the 50-100$ air freight that you will pay per 100lbs.

So... after a few loss, and few pests death, plusses 75$per 109lbs shipping weight, you price will be up there. Plus electric, water, medication, plus plus plus,

A 50$ Mari coral will cost you 75$ after shipping, qt, medication, electric, and dead loss, and then you can sell it for that to break even... Jack up the price to make money if people buy it, or spend more money to grow it out for 6 months to a year to have a few frags and a mini colony to keep and frag regularly... so your cheap coral will cost you over 100$ a year after receiving it... that'd a lot of 10-20$ frags to get even and start again.

Thus, things arnt easy or fast.. most everyone goes in the hole at first, but its what happens there determine what lies in the future..

And you have to think business and not hobby.


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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-)

240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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Unread 08/02/2011, 12:55 PM   #16
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1. It depends, $150-1500

2. Go to your LFS, see all the stuff they couldn't pay you to put into your tank? That.

3. It depends, 3-15

Wholesalers have minimum order amounts, but the thing is if you stick to the minimum then without good connections it's a 99% certainty you're getting zero consideration past your first order. They can smell basement vendors from a mile away, even with an account your actions and the way you order are going to give you away.

Also, in LA there are a ton of jobbers, online/physical shops, and hobbyists with accounts who are cherry picking everything right out from under shipout orders. So out of all the cherry stuff that comes in maybe 30% gets split between the out of state customers. If any part of the reason you want to have a basement shop is related to making a profit within the next 12 months then just put the brakes on it now and save yourself the cash and aggravation.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 01:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahenley View Post
Oh, and don't forget about the 50-100$ air freight that you will pay per 100lbs.
Too true, and these days depending on the airline you could be looking at $100-140 for just a couple of boxes!


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Unread 08/02/2011, 01:06 PM   #18
block head
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one of our lfs started out doing lr and cuc in his basement. not to be downer, but i know several great lfs owners who get their butt kicked on a daily basis. it's very rare for anyone to make a profit selling coral and fish from wholesalers.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 02:37 PM   #19
keh9qd
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Ok thanks for the quick responses. Ill give you guys some more info on what I have been thinking. Currently I have an 8 foot 100g frag tank with a 55g sump. I have been doing side jobs for hobbyists that I have met as far as helping them out very reasonably. I also buy systems from people who give up on the hobby, are moving, and/or something else. I use the good equipment to upgrade my systems, sell the nice stuff cheap, and sell the corals at 40-50% LFS value. I have a nice cargo van I use to transfer stuff and move tanks for people. I have a 15-20 person group who buy from me that I have aquired over the past 8 months along with advertizing on Craigslist. In the mean time I am able to hook up local hobbyist I have built relationships with.

I have found that liverock and basic corals are my best sellers. I sell rock for $2/lb and corals cheap. Oddly enough I cant seem to sell the nice pieces like I do the average cheap pieces. I sell anenomes quickly as well. I usually end up selling fish at 30-50% store value unless it is one of the select few wanted fish.

My concerns is that I do not want to step on LFS toes by undercutting them, but my customers/friends are such a small population that I barely dent LFS business. I also make sure to send my new customers to LFS where I most definitely give them more business than I take.

My basement business of selling is part of my maintenance/moving service. My issue has been that I sell more than I can keep in stock. Rock goes in a day and nice corals go quick as well. I also hate the idea of having to find people selling complete systems to keep me rolling. Another downside is that I have tons of leftover aquariums and equipment that doesnt sell even at giveaway prices. What I was hoping from a wholesaler is to buy $500-$1500 worth every 2 weeks and get stuff 1/3 or 1/4 price of LFS to sell at my 40-50% rates. If Im satisified with shipments and turn a decent profit I would gladly expand to a few more systems similar to what I have.

After the great information you all have shared I am not surprised that the wholesale shipments are a gamble. I also was not sure what kind of pieces I would get being a small business. I refuse to sell parasites or dying stuff to people unless I know they are advanced enough to deal with it when I bring the issue to their attention.

So with that said, do you all think that it is not worth my time to attempt to find a wholesaler? I found one (aquatictradingco.com) who would sell to me.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 02:43 PM   #20
keh9qd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by block head View Post
one of our lfs started out doing lr and cuc in his basement. not to be downer, but i know several great lfs owners who get their butt kicked on a daily basis. it's very rare for anyone to make a profit selling coral and fish from wholesalers.
If this is true, how do local fish stores stay in business? I know it isnt from selling equipment or doing maintenance (they outsource maintenance). I figured all of their profit is from selling corals and some profit from fish and equipment.

I imagine the key for them is to find good local propigation centers to hand pick from and finding good trustworthy wholesalers.

I know they have thousands of overhead each month and they have been in business for years, so they must take in $5-10k a month to keep the business rolling.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 03:18 PM   #21
organism
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keh9qd View Post
Currently I have an 8 foot 100g frag tank with a 55g sump.
That's enough to hold maybe 2 boxes if you have good flow in all parts of the tank, but with no quarantine you're going to have pests and lots of them.

Quote:
I use the good equipment to upgrade my systems, sell the nice stuff cheap, and sell the corals at 40-50% LFS value.

I usually end up selling fish at 30-50% store value unless it is one of the select few wanted fish.
So you have a customer base that's used to getting healthy, captive system acclimated corals and fish for cheaper than you'll be able to afford selling newly arrived unhealthy corals and fish from wholesalers. Not sure that's a good thing.

Quote:
What I was hoping from a wholesaler is to buy $500-$1500 worth every 2 weeks and get stuff 1/3 or 1/4 price of LFS to sell at my 40-50% rates.
1/3 or 1/4 the LFS price? lol, prepare to be surprised. Unless your LFS sells brown frogspawns for $110 and red mushrooms for $95, in that case you're good.

Quote:
I refuse to sell parasites or dying stuff to people unless I know they are advanced enough to deal with it when I bring the issue to their attention.
You can't think like a hobbyist if you plan on running a business...

Quote:
So with that said, do you all think that it is not worth my time to attempt to find a wholesaler?
Your decision to make, but you seem pretty dead set on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by keh9qd View Post
If this is true, how do local fish stores stay in business? I know it isnt from selling equipment or doing maintenance (they outsource maintenance). I figured all of their profit is from selling corals and some profit from fish and equipment.
The ones that stay in business either get most of their money from maintenance and/or have a very solid customer base. You wouldn't believe how many LFS close up shop just to do maintenance since that's where the real money is.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 03:24 PM   #22
dahenley
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every location is different.
I think my LFS (the only one in town really) makes more money on lease tanks and maintance. He doesnt have a large turn over with corals........
Fish, he does sell a decent amount of Fresh and Salt water fish.


For you, it sounds like your doing ok. and have a decent side businiess.

I think if you ordered a few boxes ever few weeks, then you might get a decent contact at the shop, that picks you some decent stuff.
But just remember that QT is King.....
Its better to get a "reputation" of having clean stuff then the guy everyone says... OH, i got this from him... but the coral was cheap...)

even if people come look at your stock, and QT system, they might want something, but you have to be the bigger person and say... its in QT for X more weeks, but ill give you a call when its out and let you know... better to be that guy then to sell it and give something to your buddys/customers.. they will be appreciative. maybe upset because they avhe to wait another week or 2, but appreciative that you QT'd them.


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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-)

240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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Unread 08/02/2011, 05:22 PM   #23
keh9qd
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Ok, thanks again for the comments and challenges guys (and gals if any of you are )

I never planned on QT for corals and cant think of any lfs who do although that would be fairly easy to accomplish in my mind. It does make sense to Qt both corals and fish though (definitely fish).

Im not necessarily dead set on doing this, but Im running out of options on where to take my side business next. I wish I knew a local guy to buy from.

Anyway, I think wholesale price is what Im most interested in. Obviously if there prices are 50% of LFS prices then that is not going to work very well. With the risk you guys mentioned and the surprise boxes it will be hard to put the corals out for a good price to my customers. I will have to get some price sheets (which in most cases are hidden until you set up an account).


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Unread 08/02/2011, 05:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
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1/3 or 1/4 the LFS price? lol, prepare to be surprised. Unless your LFS sells brown frogspawns for $110 and red mushrooms for $95, in that case you're good.
All I am saying is that if the local fish stores are only paying 50% retail and selling at 100% (doubling their money) then that is tough business. Id need to get corals at least at 1/3 retail in order to sell at roughly 1/2 retail. If the LFS are selling 8 headed green frogspawns for $80 and Im selling for $50 we both need to be getting them for $25-30 to stay alive (just an example). If they are paying their $2,000/month rent, there 5 employees, their utilities, and their shipments on a 50% markup then that would be impressive.

With that said, I am new to this side of the business, so Id be interested in getting more detailed examples. BTW- I realize in the wholesale/retail business that prices aren't spoken of individually.


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Unread 08/02/2011, 05:46 PM   #25
dahenley
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i will say that this might not be what your looking for.
on the other hand, i can see where ordering a box every now and then of specifics (an order of acans or polyp rocks,or SPS) not for specifics, but to have them on had. or maybe one person is looking for a coral, so you order a box and whats left over you can grow on till the next person. and eventually you will have growth, and can frag and sell some 20$ pieces to some guys, but still grow the mini colonies for a customer.
buy selling a few frags here and there, you can pay for shipping, and do what you want.

but its an opinion.
I will say that the fish that i see that come in when my friend orders, they are nice. i have never seen a bad/sick fish. and he has a great survival rate. but that has to do with hypo salinity and lots of wholesalers of fish medicate the water that they hold the fish's in...



so, it might not be a great expansion, but it could be a nice supplement your sales with. and you never know.. you might get a Jewl every now and then that can bump up the profit margin..


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Its not just my tank, its OUR tank!!! :-)

240display, reef in progress

Current Tank Info: 240 display, a few frags here and there. lots of fish, and lots of watching. (230 big screen getting re-sealed and going to add to the gallonage) My wife has no clue how addicted i really am.....
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