Apex died - lessons learned

dudemeister · 07/13/2018, 05:12 AM

After 5 years my trusty Apex Classic died. It started by throwing odd alarms and then just plain doing strange things. When I tried to go in locally (as opposed to Fusion) and see if there were modules in need of updated software, I couldn't get in. After much troubleshooting with advice from Neptune it was decided it was in need of an RMA. All good however have you ever considered a week without your Apex? Suddenly I had no temperature control, no light control, no supplements going in and no water changes. Good thing its summer because the temperature didn't really occur to me for a day. The temp only dropped a degree or 2.

The lesson learned is to think about this for your own setup. I had timers, spare lights and spare thermostats I could hook up and fortunately I was home. Definitely a good exercise to go through and to plan for.

I'm looking forward to getting a new Apex "brain" by Monday.

skip0211 · 07/13/2018, 09:59 PM

Hmmmm..... just made me go stare at my Apex Classic and think that out.. have lots of back up parts, but nothings organized Incase of an Apex fail.. thanks for posting..

Skip

windlasher · 07/14/2018, 11:39 PM

And the wife wonders why I have not tossed those boxes of parts I don't use any more.

dudemeister · 07/15/2018, 03:32 PM

Casualty list so far: 1 Hippo Tang (coincidence probably), 1 bleached acropora (probably from once a day water supplements and inferior lighting).

A stable tank is critical and the loss of the Apex is critical for stability. I expect my replacement unit to arrive tomorrow and I might just pay for the repair of my original unit that way I have a spare.

Has anyone done this before? I don't have a recent .bin file so Neptune told me to save my current code to a PDF and then I will have to copy and paste it back via Fusion. It sounds like a nightmare....

dudemeister · 07/15/2018, 03:34 PM

Skip- I think the acro was from you a long time ago!

dudemeister · 07/15/2018, 04:13 PM

PSA on replacement. Oh yeah-Im screwed.....

Remember how you are supposed to back up your configuration file (.bin) from the local view? Yeah I kinda let that slip too because Fusion makes it all so easy you forget to do that. The most recent file I have is well over a year old which ain't gonna cut the mustard...

Plan B? Download a PDF of your code from Fusion and then you will have to recreate from scratch. At least you have your code! There are threads with good advice which are written for people upgrading to the new Apex but the principles apply. I will add links below and let you all know how it goes. Its gonna take many hours for me!

If you have your most recent .bin file then you are in luck! Use this procedure:
https://www.neptunesystems.com/downl...ning_Guide.pdf

If you don't like me, this is very helpful and makes sense to use for swapping from one Classic to another. Its important to create outlets first without code. Copying and pasting the code is the last thing you should do. Here's my cheat sheet:

initialize apex like setting it up new
disconnects all usb cords
add modules 1 at a time- rename and update software
create a bunch of virtual outlets
rename outlets one at a time DO NOT ADD CODE
rename inputs and switches- check they respond as expected
copy and paste code over for all outlets and outputs
keep fingers crossed

https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...d-to-Apex-2016

If anyone has any advice to add I thank you in advance.

skip0211 · 07/15/2018, 08:32 PM

If you can send a picture of it or a good description, chances are I can replace it for you ‼️��

Skip

dudemeister · 07/17/2018, 11:27 AM

Well it took hours to get it all copied over and I'm not done testing to make sure my auto-change will work but I am hopeful. Of course in the midst of this my leak sensors when wacky. They get corroded over time and of course they malfunctioned as I was setting this all up! I disconnected them for now. To be honest it didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped but the good people at Neptune were great help. My lights are my home built ones I made with "Scolley" 5 years ago and I use the variable speed ports on the Apex classic to ramp them up and down. Setting up the profiles and light schedules did something weird and the lights just wouldn't work until the Neptune people told me about the wizard to set up the variable ports for light control. I deleted my profiles and switches and will see how the lights do this evening. The wizard sure makes it nice and easy with graphical plot points you can adjust on the fly.

Hopefully this will serve as a lesson for someone. Its a pain and a reminder of how we may be too reliant on automation sometimes and its good to have a backup plan and equipment in this very expensive hobby.

Peace

skip0211 · 07/17/2018, 09:16 PM

Funny you mentioned “Scolley” Steve talked into my Apex and set it up for me... I miss him in the hobby.. talk to him about twice a year now..

ca1ore · 07/19/2018, 12:39 PM

I worry all the time that my apex represents a massive 'single point of failure'. Upgraded to the new apex for precisely that reason .... though it actually seem twitchier than the classic.

LobsterOfJustice · 07/19/2018, 02:42 PM

I picked up a second apex for this reason. I’m obsessed with redundancy. I already had two return pumps on 2 different home electric circuits, and split my temperature control across two different EB8s plugged into the different circuits as well... now I have a complete second brain controlling that second EB8 on that second circuit. Next on the list is an extra set of dosing pumps to split half my ca/alk dosing to the second apex.

However, I have not saved a copy of my classic’s programming in a while, thanks for the reminder...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dudemeister · 07/19/2018, 02:54 PM

Single point of failure is 100% true and now worries me a lot. I went on vacation 7 times zones away back in May and I guess I got very lucky indeed. The Neptune people were very nice in that once they figured the unit needed an RMA they will sell you a new unit at a discount which I took them up on. I also sent in the old unit and they determined that to fix it will cost me $75 which I also did. Now I will have a backup unit on hand which I will load with my current configuration whenever I make code tweaks. Also remember to back up the configuration files any time code tweaks are made. It was a stressful week manually caring for the system. Hopefully the new unit will last at least 5 years as the old one did.

As an aside I just want to say that the best upgrade to an Apex system is by far the new optical sensors. I have 1 of them monitoring my on hand RODI and 1 of them my on hand salt water, I have 2 (redundancy) monitoring the sump level for adding RODI and another 2 (redundancy) monitoring the sump level when I do daily salt water changes. They work perfectly. The module that gives me problems are the leak detectors. The copper coils that sit on the ground tend to get corroded and fail fairly quickly which causes much panic and stress. Mine are currently disconnected.

07/13/2018, 05:12 AM	#1
dudemeister Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: CT Posts: 251	Apex died - lessons learned After 5 years my trusty Apex Classic died. It started by throwing odd alarms and then just plain doing strange things. When I tried to go in locally (as opposed to Fusion) and see if there were modules in need of updated software, I couldn't get in. After much troubleshooting with advice from Neptune it was decided it was in need of an RMA. All good however have you ever considered a week without your Apex? Suddenly I had no temperature control, no light control, no supplements going in and no water changes. Good thing its summer because the temperature didn't really occur to me for a day. The temp only dropped a degree or 2. The lesson learned is to think about this for your own setup. I had timers, spare lights and spare thermostats I could hook up and fortunately I was home. Definitely a good exercise to go through and to plan for. I'm looking forward to getting a new Apex "brain" by Monday.

07/13/2018, 09:59 PM	#2
skip0211 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Newtown Ct Posts: 308	Hmmmm..... just made me go stare at my Apex Classic and think that out.. have lots of back up parts, but nothings organized Incase of an Apex fail.. thanks for posting.. Skip __________________ 265 gal SPS reef. Reef Octopus skimmer, CEBU MH fixture 3x400 watt 20k radiums w/T5s, Skimz Duel calc reactor. Current Tank Info: 265 Gallon SPS Reef

07/14/2018, 11:39 PM	#3
windlasher Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 504	And the wife wonders why I have not tossed those boxes of parts I don't use any more. __________________ --- PLEASE HELP SAVE THE DOLPHINS In case we run out of chicken. ---

07/15/2018, 08:32 PM	#7
skip0211 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Newtown Ct Posts: 308	If you can send a picture of it or a good description, chances are I can replace it for you ‼️�� Skip __________________ 265 gal SPS reef. Reef Octopus skimmer, CEBU MH fixture 3x400 watt 20k radiums w/T5s, Skimz Duel calc reactor. Current Tank Info: 265 Gallon SPS Reef

07/17/2018, 09:16 PM	#9
skip0211 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Newtown Ct Posts: 308	Funny you mentioned “Scolley” Steve talked into my Apex and set it up for me... I miss him in the hobby.. talk to him about twice a year now.. __________________ 265 gal SPS reef. Reef Octopus skimmer, CEBU MH fixture 3x400 watt 20k radiums w/T5s, Skimz Duel calc reactor. Current Tank Info: 265 Gallon SPS Reef

07/15/2018, 03:32 PM	#4
dudemeister Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: CT Posts: 251	Casualty list so far: 1 Hippo Tang (coincidence probably), 1 bleached acropora (probably from once a day water supplements and inferior lighting). A stable tank is critical and the loss of the Apex is critical for stability. I expect my replacement unit to arrive tomorrow and I might just pay for the repair of my original unit that way I have a spare. Has anyone done this before? I don't have a recent .bin file so Neptune told me to save my current code to a PDF and then I will have to copy and paste it back via Fusion. It sounds like a nightmare....

07/15/2018, 03:34 PM	#5
dudemeister Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: CT Posts: 251	Skip- I think the acro was from you a long time ago!

07/15/2018, 04:13 PM	#6
dudemeister Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: CT Posts: 251	PSA on replacement. Oh yeah-Im screwed..... Remember how you are supposed to back up your configuration file (.bin) from the local view? Yeah I kinda let that slip too because Fusion makes it all so easy you forget to do that. The most recent file I have is well over a year old which ain't gonna cut the mustard... Plan B? Download a PDF of your code from Fusion and then you will have to recreate from scratch. At least you have your code! There are threads with good advice which are written for people upgrading to the new Apex but the principles apply. I will add links below and let you all know how it goes. Its gonna take many hours for me! If you have your most recent .bin file then you are in luck! Use this procedure: https://www.neptunesystems.com/downl...ning_Guide.pdf If you don't like me, this is very helpful and makes sense to use for swapping from one Classic to another. Its important to create outlets first without code. Copying and pasting the code is the last thing you should do. Here's my cheat sheet: initialize apex like setting it up new disconnects all usb cords add modules 1 at a time- rename and update software create a bunch of virtual outlets rename outlets one at a time DO NOT ADD CODE rename inputs and switches- check they respond as expected copy and paste code over for all outlets and outputs keep fingers crossed https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...d-to-Apex-2016 If anyone has any advice to add I thank you in advance.

07/17/2018, 11:27 AM	#8
dudemeister Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: CT Posts: 251	Well it took hours to get it all copied over and I'm not done testing to make sure my auto-change will work but I am hopeful. Of course in the midst of this my leak sensors when wacky. They get corroded over time and of course they malfunctioned as I was setting this all up! I disconnected them for now. To be honest it didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped but the good people at Neptune were great help. My lights are my home built ones I made with "Scolley" 5 years ago and I use the variable speed ports on the Apex classic to ramp them up and down. Setting up the profiles and light schedules did something weird and the lights just wouldn't work until the Neptune people told me about the wizard to set up the variable ports for light control. I deleted my profiles and switches and will see how the lights do this evening. The wizard sure makes it nice and easy with graphical plot points you can adjust on the fly. Hopefully this will serve as a lesson for someone. Its a pain and a reminder of how we may be too reliant on automation sometimes and its good to have a backup plan and equipment in this very expensive hobby. Peace

07/19/2018, 12:39 PM	#10
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	I worry all the time that my apex represents a massive 'single point of failure'. Upgraded to the new apex for precisely that reason .... though it actually seem twitchier than the classic. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

07/19/2018, 02:42 PM	#11
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	I picked up a second apex for this reason. I’m obsessed with redundancy. I already had two return pumps on 2 different home electric circuits, and split my temperature control across two different EB8s plugged into the different circuits as well... now I have a complete second brain controlling that second EB8 on that second circuit. Next on the list is an extra set of dosing pumps to split half my ca/alk dosing to the second apex. However, I have not saved a copy of my classic’s programming in a while, thanks for the reminder... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

07/19/2018, 02:54 PM	#12
dudemeister Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: CT Posts: 251	Single point of failure is 100% true and now worries me a lot. I went on vacation 7 times zones away back in May and I guess I got very lucky indeed. The Neptune people were very nice in that once they figured the unit needed an RMA they will sell you a new unit at a discount which I took them up on. I also sent in the old unit and they determined that to fix it will cost me $75 which I also did. Now I will have a backup unit on hand which I will load with my current configuration whenever I make code tweaks. Also remember to back up the configuration files any time code tweaks are made. It was a stressful week manually caring for the system. Hopefully the new unit will last at least 5 years as the old one did. As an aside I just want to say that the best upgrade to an Apex system is by far the new optical sensors. I have 1 of them monitoring my on hand RODI and 1 of them my on hand salt water, I have 2 (redundancy) monitoring the sump level for adding RODI and another 2 (redundancy) monitoring the sump level when I do daily salt water changes. They work perfectly. The module that gives me problems are the leak detectors. The copper coils that sit on the ground tend to get corroded and fail fairly quickly which causes much panic and stress. Mine are currently disconnected.