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02/17/2017, 06:19 PM | #26 |
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you can make anything work. the question is, is it practical?
you will need to prefill the first tank to the desired level. then prime the XXfeet of siphon tubing (you can't just suck with your mouth on the other end). when first tank starts getting siphoned, you need to pump in water to keep the level. etc etc. |
02/17/2017, 09:21 PM | #27 |
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I agree with VGT above.
You just have to make sure both ends don't come out of the water. Many aquarium overflow setups work like the sketch that was posted. They have a box hanging in the tank and a box on the outside, with a U pipe up over the edge of the tank. This is a way to make an overflow setup for a tank that's not drilled. The problem is that it will eventually become a problem. For what you're doing, it may not ever be a problem, as far as overflowing. When a setup like this is used on a tank, to run a sump below, you will eventually get small bubbles accumulating in the top of the U pipe. This reduces flow, increasingly, until there's more water being pumped up into the tank than is draining back to the sump. THis is why many of these setups will put a small port on the top of the U pipe, where you can add an aqualifter to keep air from staying in there. ....which then becomes another problem...the aqualifter is another item to fail, clog, etc. If you're just balancing tanks that are on the same level, why not just drill each of them below water level and put a pipe between, which doesn't ever go above that elevation? Then no air will get in it. For reference...you can look up some youtube videos on a "water level" which uses a section of hose. If you put water in a length of flexible hose, and hold each end upwards, the level of water in each side will be level. You can use this to set elevation of items across a gravel parking lot if you have a hose long enough. By using this same concept, tying two tanks together, with tanks being a low point, you could accomplish your goal without any air problems at all, since air goes up and would come out the ends, into the tank. |
02/17/2017, 09:24 PM | #28 |
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BTW, I have done similarly when filling two garbage cans with RO water. Once I get a few inches of water in each can, I can pull a siphon from one, and hold my thumb over it once it fills the hose. Put the end down into the second can, and it's done... any water put in one can will level out in the other can, so you fill two cans at the same time.
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02/17/2017, 11:31 PM | #29 |
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I'm not sure I understand how the water gets from the 2 display tanks to the sump they share.... do you pump water out of each display, into the sump, and then back to each display?
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02/18/2017, 09:14 AM | #30 |
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What your making is a water bridge
https://youtu.be/1tmsHa5spqc http://www.bio-elite.co.za/waterbridge.htm https://youtu.be/u--gZdv_wN8 Last edited by SFish; 02/18/2017 at 09:36 AM. |
02/18/2017, 09:32 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
Last edited by SFish; 02/18/2017 at 10:00 AM. |
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02/18/2017, 04:10 PM | #32 | |
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Quote:
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02/18/2017, 08:07 PM | #33 | |
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Quote:
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(1) 300g mixed reef (Starfire DT) + 100g Sump (2) 100g Softie tank (Starfire DT) My Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263472 |
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02/19/2017, 10:04 AM | #34 |
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I use a slow speed masterflex pump with a dual head setup.... it exchanges about 150 gallons a week between two of my setups just to keep their chemistries similar. One pipe pulls from one tank the other pipe pulls from the other. I made sure the tubing is the same length for each run, so that the head pressure is balanced.
I originally did the DOS trick on a small temporary tank, having it pull water out and then pump water back in, but its a noisy pump and the duty cycle is no where near as good as a Masterflex. If you do go with a siphon and a U tube, I would get a decent industrial peristaltic pump to periodically pump out any air bubbles from the apex of the tubing to maintain prime. |
02/19/2017, 10:30 AM | #35 |
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As I think you now suspect, the answer is no. While conceptually it would work, it likely wouldn't 'stay' working. The problem with most U tubes is that they lose siphon over time due to collections of air bubbles. A 50 foot U tube, with slow flow due to small level differences would be plagued with siphon loss problems.
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Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs |
02/20/2017, 09:02 AM | #36 |
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No need to read the linked post. If you're joining two tanks, you drill, and plumb them.
Using a 50' siphon tube, or water bridge, as stated earlier, is making a mountain, out of a molehill. While also adding risk factor. Just sayin' |
02/20/2017, 09:11 AM | #37 |
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Things to consider:
Make sure the pvc tubing is clear so that any air bubbles can be noticed quickly. If the water is moving fast enough through the tube smaller air pockets can be pushed through. An air lifter/power head w/ air input on a timer (once a week) can remove any additional air As long as you periodically check the water bridge/siphon tube it should never lose its siphon. The worst thing you could do is make it out of white or black pvc and then have to guess when air is being trapped. Ive used one for 10 years with plenty of power outages and never lost a siphon. Like anything else its not fail safe and does require the occasional check. Last edited by krazyk148; 02/20/2017 at 09:19 AM. |
02/20/2017, 04:34 PM | #38 |
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I did something only slightly similar between a 130 gallon DT tank and a 55 gallon remote sump in the garage. I only pumped a couple of gallons per day through a ¼ inch line. From there, I pumped the water into a higher vestal with a peristaltic pump and it returned to the DT via gravity. I liked the results even though I had to check for clogs about once a month.
Now I am installing a ½ inch version going from my 180 to a 30G and may only have 20 gallons going through per day. I did drill this time because I could. I don’t remember if your installation has the tubing running above the water line the entire distance like in the drawing or if it dips down in-between the tanks. I run my tubing almost straight down after going over the edge and coming back up just before the other edge. That way there is less weight being lifted and therefore it would take more air to break the siphon. Of course, if something can go wrong, it might. Do you have a controller to tell you if the water level goes out of whack? If not, you could build an alarm pretty cheaply. Just a water sensor/alarm from home depot hung in the tank just above the water line would do the job.
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Restarting 180G Very Mixed Reef Tank, Custom Cabinet, Kessil AP700, 4 x T5’s , 2 X 60" XHO LED's, Dump Bucket Style ATS, bag of carbon, no mechanical filtration allows food to stay in suspension. Current Tank Info: In Garage: 130G Refugium, 30G sump for remote ATO, 55G RO/DI Reservoir, additional EB8. Finishing: Custom Nelson style KalkRx, Custom Cole Palmer style CalRx with PT CO2 Carbon Reactor Controller, 2 Axis Robot Feeder for Garage Plankton Farm. |
08/16/2017, 03:08 PM | #39 |
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For anyone still interested in making a waterbridge, I've found that polycarbonate tubing is extremely cheap compared to acrylic or clear pvc tubing and can be found in long lengths.
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08/16/2017, 06:40 PM | #40 |
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Update?
So did you do what you where thinking about or did you drop the idea?
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Restarting 180G Very Mixed Reef Tank, Custom Cabinet, Kessil AP700, 4 x T5’s , 2 X 60" XHO LED's, Dump Bucket Style ATS, bag of carbon, no mechanical filtration allows food to stay in suspension. Current Tank Info: In Garage: 130G Refugium, 30G sump for remote ATO, 55G RO/DI Reservoir, additional EB8. Finishing: Custom Nelson style KalkRx, Custom Cole Palmer style CalRx with PT CO2 Carbon Reactor Controller, 2 Axis Robot Feeder for Garage Plankton Farm. |
08/16/2017, 09:54 PM | #41 |
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Is that to me? haha I'm building it now. Couldnt finish the overflow/waterbridge until my tank was mostly done. A 3 inch, 6 foot long clear tube is $57.. which should be big enough for the flow im looking for and is a pretty good price. Ill take some pics once its done
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OMHHY6/ref=biss_dp_t_asn |
08/17/2017, 06:34 AM | #42 |
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Yes, in theory it will work. But in practice there will be lots of challenges. If the water level in the tanks is already very close to being dialed thanks to your pump tuning, that means the siphon has very very little water to move. A siphon with very slow flow is subject to air accumulating over time (microbubbles, etc) which basically means it will eventually break. You can run a vacuum pump on the siphon, connected to the highest point (where air will naturally collect) but that's also not a surefire way to keep the siphon alive.
People have trouble keeping 1" siphon u tubes alive when they are only inches long and flowing hundreds of gph. You are talking dozens of feet long and a few percent of that flow. I just don't see this being reliable, and when something like this goes wrong it's usually a pretty big deal. What you are trying to do is essentially the same as all the people asking about putting two sumps on one display tank. The best approach is to have one single container as your lowest point, then pump up from there and overflow back down to it. You can design any spaghetti mess of multiple systems with different flow rates and overflows and whatever, as long as there is a single lowest tank acting as the master sump it'll all balance. You're describing a single central tank and pumps to balance. If that central tank could be the lowest of the three, this would be a much simpler problem to solve. I am totally 100% right there with those of you who are saying you love to prove naysayers wrong, but sometimes the alternate method is just plain not a good idea even if it technically works.
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08/17/2017, 06:37 AM | #43 |
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I just realized the thread is old and there is a second page which I had not read when I typed that.
Water bridges meant to be on display with strong flow through them strike me as a slightly different challenge than a u tube meant to operate as a balancing siphon. I don't think the bridge idea is as unworkable since it is usually done with deliberate design vs just a super long u tube.
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Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman) |
08/17/2017, 10:01 AM | #44 |
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If you are going 50 feet with 2 3/4 inch tubing and it is all above the tank water line, then the weight of the water is more than 130 pounds? This doesn't mean that it will not work or work badly but just keep in mind that you have a reservoir of 15 or 16 gallons sitting there like a surge device. If it lets go then you have to make sure that your system can handle it.
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Restarting 180G Very Mixed Reef Tank, Custom Cabinet, Kessil AP700, 4 x T5’s , 2 X 60" XHO LED's, Dump Bucket Style ATS, bag of carbon, no mechanical filtration allows food to stay in suspension. Current Tank Info: In Garage: 130G Refugium, 30G sump for remote ATO, 55G RO/DI Reservoir, additional EB8. Finishing: Custom Nelson style KalkRx, Custom Cole Palmer style CalRx with PT CO2 Carbon Reactor Controller, 2 Axis Robot Feeder for Garage Plankton Farm. |
08/17/2017, 09:36 PM | #45 |
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yeah im doing a 6ft run with two elbows. His notion seemed much harder to accomplish haha
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01/03/2018, 08:03 PM | #46 |
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getting ready to test it..
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