Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 09/26/2017, 11:13 AM   #26
Mrs. Music
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sylvania, OH
Posts: 636
Thank you for the kind reply. I didn't have a protocol. We removed all the LR from my 180 and squirted or brushed hair peroxide, #40 developer, on the bryopsis and v snails with a quick brush of a new wire brush over the algae or v snails. Then rinsed each rock in salt water and placed it back in the tank. This was my valentines day gift from my husband...lol. I bet he wished he had just gotten me a fish! Although the bryosis came back many years later I have very few v snails. They were awful prior to the treatment. Good luck. I hope see this come to fruition.


__________________
Midwest Custom Acylic 180 gallon, 2 AI Hydra Twenty Six HD, Tunze 6055, remote custom 75 gallon sump with chaeto refugium, Pan World pump, Reef Octopus INT 200 skim
Mrs. Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/28/2017, 11:20 AM   #27
tlc
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 918
i wasnt plagued with these snails by any means but i did notice an extreme decline in population when i started microscrubbing my tank. i have been scrubbing the tank for about 5 months now. prior to scrubbing i was seeing the snail growth population expanding. now there is only a few left in the tank. oddly they are growing out of the top of a lepto i have.


tlc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/29/2017, 08:37 AM   #28
pisanoal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Music View Post
Thank you for the kind reply. I didn't have a protocol. We removed all the LR from my 180 and squirted or brushed hair peroxide, #40 developer, on the bryopsis and v snails with a quick brush of a new wire brush over the algae or v snails. Then rinsed each rock in salt water and placed it back in the tank. This was my valentines day gift from my husband...lol. I bet he wished he had just gotten me a fish! Although the bryosis came back many years later I have very few v snails. They were awful prior to the treatment. Good luck. I hope see this come to fruition.
Thanks for explaining your method. I will take that into consideration. Although it doesn't meet my criteria fully, it may be that I don't find a chemical solution that doesn't involve removing rocks. unfortunately, without this method, we will never fully eliminate them from a tank (which is the main goal of this thread) without nuking the whole tank and starting over.

Moving on, my clam did not make the journey, so after my fish are done with the quarantine tanks, I will resume testing.


pisanoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/29/2017, 08:39 AM   #29
pisanoal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc View Post
i wasnt plagued with these snails by any means but i did notice an extreme decline in population when i started microscrubbing my tank. i have been scrubbing the tank for about 5 months now. prior to scrubbing i was seeing the snail growth population expanding. now there is only a few left in the tank. oddly they are growing out of the top of a lepto i have.
I have heard this several times before, and if we can't come to a complete eradication method, this sounds like a very promising way to manage and reduce plague levels of them.

Do you have it set up on a timer to do it automatically? How often? Do you find salt creep being an issue, or how do you manage the creep?

Thanks for your post


pisanoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/29/2017, 08:59 PM   #30
tlc
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 918
i have the scrubber on a timer set to come on from about 1130 am to 430 am. some recommend longer intervals. if you use a proper wood difuser or other type of micro bubble device the salt creep is very minimal. elegant corals has some great info on the set up


tlc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/29/2017, 10:26 PM   #31
Froggers
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Have you tried using a molluscicide like potassium permanganate?

There are other natural molluscicides that could work like seeds, extracts and oils of Azadirachta indica (neem), Cedrus deodara (cedar), Allium sativum (garlic), Polianthes tuberosa (tuberosebulb), Zingiber officinale (ginger), Lawsonia inermis (henna), Annona squamosa (custard apple), Sapindus trifoliatus (soap nut), Acacia concinna (shikakai), Madhuca indica (mowra, honey tree), Phytolacca acinosa (pokeweed) or combinations with other plant-derived molluscicides that are very effective against both adult snails and their reproduction.

I dosed one of my tanks with Hydrogen Peroxide daily a few years ago in an effort to control bryopsis. The dosing really had no affect on the Bryopsis however it did completely eradicate my tank of planaria and snails.


Froggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/02/2017, 01:46 PM   #32
pisanoal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc View Post
i have the scrubber on a timer set to come on from about 1130 am to 430 am. some recommend longer intervals. if you use a proper wood difuser or other type of micro bubble device the salt creep is very minimal. elegant corals has some great info on the set up
Ill check it out. Thanks for the info.


pisanoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/02/2017, 01:47 PM   #33
pisanoal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Froggers View Post
Have you tried using a molluscicide like potassium permanganate?

There are other natural molluscicides that could work like seeds, extracts and oils of Azadirachta indica (neem), Cedrus deodara (cedar), Allium sativum (garlic), Polianthes tuberosa (tuberosebulb), Zingiber officinale (ginger), Lawsonia inermis (henna), Annona squamosa (custard apple), Sapindus trifoliatus (soap nut), Acacia concinna (shikakai), Madhuca indica (mowra, honey tree), Phytolacca acinosa (pokeweed) or combinations with other plant-derived molluscicides that are very effective against both adult snails and their reproduction.

I dosed one of my tanks with Hydrogen Peroxide daily a few years ago in an effort to control bryopsis. The dosing really had no affect on the Bryopsis however it did completely eradicate my tank of planaria and snails.

I have not given it any thought, thanks for the suggestions. Would be interesting to find dosage levels that would be considered reef safe. Especially of the peroxide and permanganate.


pisanoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/02/2017, 02:03 PM   #34
pisanoal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
I just read/skimmed the advanced aquarist article you quoted. Interesting read. Doesn't appear like KMnO4 is a good candidate for in tank treatment though. Still worth a shot as maybe lower dosages will effect vermetids.


pisanoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/02/2017, 02:29 PM   #35
Nemeziz_za
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 30
Subscribed

I just went through a 900 gallon tear down and did some pretty extreme rock nuking.

Not something I ever want to have to do again, I'd probably just raise the white flag.


Nemeziz_za is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/02/2017, 05:30 PM   #36
fishguy597
Registered Member
 
fishguy597's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minooka Il
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Music View Post
I believe a wire brush would damage the shell and expose them to more of the treatment.
Only problem is, you will miss some of the smaller ones and they will multiply. I truely hope you can find something to get rid of these guys. I ultimately had to nuke my rock and seed it with existing lr. I must have checked the existing lr 10x's and kept on finding new snails until the 7th time. They hide every where lr,sump,overflows,ext.


fishguy597 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/02/2017, 11:19 PM   #37
Froggers
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
The dosage I used for algae was a little less than 1ml per 10 gallons of 3% hydrogen peroxide added daily. If you try this start lower dosage. I dosed for about 3 or 4 months. I do not know at what stage I killed off all the flat worms. Your skimmer will go nuts.

As far as the potassium permanganate I believe Kent Marine Poly-Ox has this in it. Kent Marine provides a recommended dosage for reef tanks as well. Jungle Clear Water is potassium permanganate but only give a recommended dose for freshwater tanks and ponds.

Everyone that has failed using potassium permanganate have used higher dosages trying to get a quick knock down. I think at a lower dose for a longer period might work and be safer. Just be prepared to lose snails, clams and any other worms and such. Might cause your nitrates and ammonia to spike with the die off. Could kill off some of the bacteria in the rocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pisanoal View Post
I have not given it any thought, thanks for the suggestions. Would be interesting to find dosage levels that would be considered reef safe. Especially of the peroxide and permanganate.



Froggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/02/2017, 11:41 PM   #38
Froggers
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Kent Marine poly-ox is not potassium permanganate it is H2MnO4 that acts like potassium permanganate (KMnO4). Kordon Permoxyn is 3.8% potassium permanganate KMnO4. If you decide to go this route hydrogen peroxide is the antidote.

If I were going to try this method I would first set up a test tank and test what strength is needed to kill the vermetid snails. Then I would test it with a few pieces of different expendable coral frags to see how they react.

Some information on KMnO4 can be found at http://www.discusforums.com/forum/ar...p/t-20752.html


Froggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/03/2017, 09:29 AM   #39
pisanoal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Froggers View Post
The dosage I used for algae was a little less than 1ml per 10 gallons of 3% hydrogen peroxide added daily. If you try this start lower dosage. I dosed for about 3 or 4 months. I do not know at what stage I killed off all the flat worms. Your skimmer will go nuts.

As far as the potassium permanganate I believe Kent Marine Poly-Ox has this in it. Kent Marine provides a recommended dosage for reef tanks as well. Jungle Clear Water is potassium permanganate but only give a recommended dose for freshwater tanks and ponds.

Everyone that has failed using potassium permanganate have used higher dosages trying to get a quick knock down. I think at a lower dose for a longer period might work and be safer. Just be prepared to lose snails, clams and any other worms and such. Might cause your nitrates and ammonia to spike with the die off. Could kill off some of the bacteria in the rocks.


Ok, Thanks for the info.


pisanoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/24/2017, 02:50 AM   #40
Nemeziz_za
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 30
Curious if there has been any progress or further thoughts or findings in this research thread.


Nemeziz_za is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/24/2017, 05:02 AM   #41
pisanoal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemeziz_za View Post
Curious if there has been any progress or further thoughts or findings in this research thread.
I had to pause it to set up a longer term qt tank. I'm setting it back up now and getting ready to start testing. I've got a few more ideas to try too

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


__________________
Tony
pisanoal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/25/2017, 01:51 PM   #42
Nemeziz_za
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by pisanoal View Post
I had to pause it to set up a longer term qt tank. I'm setting it back up now and getting ready to start testing. I've got a few more ideas to try too

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
Great to hear, I'm subscribed to your thread and thank you for your perseverance.


Nemeziz_za is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10/25/2017, 02:14 PM   #43
jda
Dogmatic Dinosaur
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 6,256
This is completely anecdotal, but I inherited a longnose butterfly about a month ago. While it cannot eat them, it seems to irritate them enough that I have not seen as many new ones around - I usually cut them in the tank with some bone cutters and then the fish clean them up. This could mean nothing and this is just a down-cycle.

FWIW - I have some, but never enough to be really mad about them.


jda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2017, 01:04 AM   #44
JDuong916
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 129
I read somewhere about someone using coral snow. I guess it makes the water clear and the verms cant eat and die. I am 99% sure it probably doesn't work, but I read it somewhere.

I'm at the exact same point as you, every thing settled and growing including billions of vermetids.


JDuong916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/28/2017, 02:15 AM   #45
ReefKeeper64
Wanna be a reefkeeper
 
ReefKeeper64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,158
If you don’t come up with a better solution, then here is a thought.

Remove your corals to a holding tank and dose the display tank with a standard dose of chloroquine phosphate. Just one dose will wipe out your entire snail population. I know because I treated a case of ich this way before. Snails went quick. It took a few weeks after before I could keep snails again. I deplore vermetid snails. Their webs and cones are unsightly. If I ever get a case of these, I won’t hesitate one bit to nuke them this way. The tank will recover in short order and the corals will make it in a holding tank for a few weeks.


ReefKeeper64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/20/2017, 06:37 AM   #46
Jose Mayo
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 12
There is a product, used in organic agriculture to control slugs and snails, that could be efficient to control vermetides: Ferric phosphate.

The trademark of the product is Ferramol® Organic, but for the purpose of experimentation I believe that the use of saturated GFO may be attempted by the aquarist. Ideally, the saturated GFO should be dry and ground by dosing the product on the display when the vermetides are with their nets extended to ensure they can ingest it, and then wait for the results.

There is no defined dose to use for this purpose. Caution is required.

The mechanism of action is explained here: The potential for slug control with ferric phosphate

It seems to be safe for animals except slugs and snails.

Best regards


Jose Mayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/20/2017, 07:14 AM   #47
tastyfish
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 240
Following with interest.

I note from your posts so far that you are expecting almost an instantaneous effect on the vermatids? Perhaps setting an observation of 14 days would be more realistic.

If a treatment is not having an effect after 14 days, then it's likely not going to.

Good luck on your quest


tastyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/22/2017, 01:15 PM   #48
DarkSkyForever
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 92
I've had great success getting rid of them by starving them out - I switched to feeding floating pellet food instead of mysis and other meaty foods that sink in the water column. I would drop a pinch of pellets, wait for it to be eaten, then repeat as needed. About a month later I have mostly empty tubes. I also superglued the larger snails when I found them, and scraped smaller ones where possible. Now I have zero that I can find.


DarkSkyForever is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/22/2017, 01:26 PM   #49
shred5
Registered Member
 
shred5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Waukesha , WI
Posts: 4,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSkyForever View Post
I've had great success getting rid of them by starving them out - I switched to feeding floating pellet food instead of mysis and other meaty foods that sink in the water column. I would drop a pinch of pellets, wait for it to be eaten, then repeat as needed. About a month later I have mostly empty tubes. I also superglued the larger snails when I found them, and scraped smaller ones where possible. Now I have zero that I can find.

Same here. They came in on a frag from a friend who had hundreds in his tank. In my tank they took off under the rocks (Floating shelf) there was hundreds of them in no time.

I stopped feeding the tank and started feeding the fish and in 6 months almost all dead.


__________________
David Polzin
shred5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12/27/2017, 05:01 AM   #50
tastyfish
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSkyForever View Post
I've had great success getting rid of them by starving them out - I switched to feeding floating pellet food instead of mysis and other meaty foods that sink in the water column. I would drop a pinch of pellets, wait for it to be eaten, then repeat as needed. About a month later I have mostly empty tubes. I also superglued the larger snails when I found them, and scraped smaller ones where possible. Now I have zero that I can find.
Although off topic for the OP, I agree and this has been my approach. Although I still have them (the small, needle sharp species), their numbers dwindled from thousands to probably only a handful of web-slingers. I removed and replaced half of the rock and I have yet to see any new vermatids colonise it.

I feed three times a day with pellet on an autofeeder and supplement with frozen. I have not used coral food for a long time, which is not going to suit everyone TBH.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefKeeper64 View Post
If you don’t come up with a better solution, then here is a thought.

Remove your corals to a holding tank and dose the display tank with a standard dose of chloroquine phosphate. Just one dose will wipe out your entire snail population. I know because I treated a case of ich this way before. Snails went quick. It took a few weeks after before I could keep snails again. I deplore vermetid snails. Their webs and cones are unsightly. If I ever get a case of these, I won’t hesitate one bit to nuke them this way. The tank will recover in short order and the corals will make it in a holding tank for a few weeks.

Although ReefKeeper is correct, Chloroquine will kill vermatids and other snails, it will kill ALL invertebrates and will likely cause severe ammonia spikes and die off. I would only use this with EXTREME caution. It is certainly NOT a reef safe option.


tastyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.