Gone Solar Too - Page 3

jdhuyvetter · 02/20/2009, 11:41 AM

The tubes were dropped 8 inches last night. PAR at the water line went up 100. And, it was completely overcast and at 5 pm when I took the readings.

I double checked the old light fixture (now on the frag tank). The PAR that I previously referenced was on a new 10K bulb (right side). It is still around 1180. The 14K bulbs to the left and middle are around 675 and 850. Huge difference. All readings are at the water surface. Solatube readings are about an inch below the bottom of the tube. Once I get the supplemental lights hooked up, I'll update the PAR readings (at the water level)

jdhuyvetter · 02/20/2009, 01:52 PM

FTS today at 2:30. Tube #4 is fixed. All tubes have been lowered. Corals have "browned out". Based on everything I read, I expected this. In 2 or 3 weeks the color should come back even better. Second pic is my Aquarium City Red after 1 week under solar tubes only.

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mborn · 02/20/2009, 03:02 PM

Nice setup. The tankâ€™s looking great!

CRASHJT · 02/20/2009, 03:19 PM

Very cool ....do you get the MH shimmer with that setup?

jdhuyvetter · 02/20/2009, 07:19 PM

Yes, I get the shimmer, but not quite as strong. But, I get a true dawn and dusk look that you just can't get with MH.

JMBoehling · 02/20/2009, 07:58 PM

Digging it! I'll tell what is really cool to watch skylight lit reefs on a mostly Sunny day when you get a cloud or two to pass by during midday sun. The the effect of the variance in light is pretty intense, kindoff like when your diving or snorkeling

Keep us updated, I following this one all the way.

Jim

jdhuyvetter · 02/23/2009, 07:27 AM

OK, Mom's in town for a couple of weeks. Project is on hold until she goes back to Ohio. PC lights are in and temporarily hooked up (sorry Mark). Look great. I'll try to get some pics posted this week. Probably won't get the whole thing completed for at least a month now.

Ed Ricketts · 02/23/2009, 08:15 AM

jd

Great project! can you post your kilowatt usage from this most recent month, compared to a similar period, say last February? Assuming all things being equal otherwise, of course... Energy saver TOTM!

Alaskan Reefer · 02/23/2009, 02:56 PM

Amazing...at the very least...

If I could only get the sun to shine long enough in Alaskan winters...

jdhuyvetter · 02/23/2009, 03:09 PM

OK, today at 4 pm. Sun is a little low, but all of the PC supplements are on. Tonight project....hook up the remainder of the pumps/wavemakers and move the chords to the back of the tank.

2x4's are temporary...just wanted to get the PC's up to the correct elevation above the tank.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

jdhuyvetter · 03/02/2009, 09:42 AM

OK, quick update. The montiporas and larger clams seemed to respond first. Clams opened up about 20% more in a matter of days. Montis showed improved color in less than a week. Acros....mixed bag. Some have new growth tips, one (A. valida) has better color and a couple of STN. This is another reason I am putting the further changes on hold. A brief timeline:

December (full moon) - Pocillipora spawning event, Montis tanked, Acros PO'd. I lost a handful of frags, but no colonies. About 10% loss on the colonies that were stressed. Took 2-3 weeks before the montis and acros bounced back.

Week between Christmas and New Years - I had swapped out the softie and freshwater tanks in November with the intention of plumbing it in to the main system. I tore down the old frag system and refugium and plumbed everything into the new system. Total plumbing and refugium overhaul. One colony showed some minor STN. All the frags were ticked off at being in a rubbermaid tub for 4 days.

January - collecting season on Sanibel. Added a couple of gorgonians and about 6 different sponges. All to the softie tank which is now part of the overall system. Lost a couple of sponges. During this time, one of my big colonies started to STN from the inside out. (No, I did not put 2 and 2 together) Three different collecting trips over a 5 weekend period.

February 12 - pulled the old light canopy and installed solar tubes.

February 14 - pulled the light diffusers and filters to improve the solar tubes

February 19 - added about 12 inches to each solartube and adjusted the angles for better light distribution in the tank.

February 21 - Got the Tunze going again (main circulation pumps in the main tank were off since Feb 12). During this time frame the main pump was running and a couple of small supplemental powerheads for water flow.

February 22 - Put the PC lights up.

February 28 - Changed 50% of the bulbs in the PC's to increase the amount of actinic. Added Erythremycin to the system to try to stop STN in 4 of my colonies.

With all of these changes is it any wonder why my Acros are STN?

Due to the coral stress issues (and family in town), I have decided to temporarily stop further changes on the tank. I still have to add two more Tunzes and pull out all of the old powerheads. Also want to add a wavebox. Overall, the tank will have better water movement, but it will require me to pull out/rearrange about 25% of the SPS corals located in the top 1/3 of the tank. I want to do this before I frame in the top of the tank. So, until the corals improve....I am done tinkering.

ReefEnabler · 03/02/2009, 11:28 AM

the tank is looking great, looks like its adjusting.

sorry about the stress on the corals, but I am sure your tank will survive this and come back stronger than before.

jdhuyvetter · 03/02/2009, 01:55 PM

A few of the additions from Sanibel. All are doing well.

An interesting sponge. Grows like a lettuce coral.

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A very bright red flame sponge (my favorite)

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jdhuyvetter · 03/09/2009, 04:33 PM

Well, Mom is flying back to the great white north (Ohio) tomorrow. I decided that I have a Tunze controller for 4 Tunzes, but I only have two. So...I ordered 2 more 6100's. They'll be here tomorrow. This weekends project is to pull the old powerheads out from behind the rocks and replace 4 powerheads with 2 tunzes. I'll move the existing tunzes to the back corners. I plan on getting a wavebox in a couple of weeks to put in the front right corner. I've got a PVC rack supporting the liverock and have it stacked all the way to the top of the tank in the back. I've decided to pull this live rock and just let the corals fill in the back. Anyway, here is a shot from about 1:30 pm yesterday. Coral color is starting to come back.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

jdhuyvetter · 03/09/2009, 04:34 PM

Oh yeah, partly cloudy. PAR at the water line was fairly consistent. 625 to 675

dougie · 03/09/2009, 10:45 PM

very impressive. great work.

jdhuyvetter · 03/17/2009, 04:06 PM

Got my first full months power bill in today. $150 less!!!! kWh went from 129.1 last year to 93.2 this year.

Next month should really tell the tale though. Had an extra person (mom) in the house for three weeks. Didn't have the PC's hooked up the whole month. Redid the lighting for the frag system and I am currently redoing some of the circulation pumps. Replacing 6 powerheads with 2 tunze's.

Crawf71 · 03/17/2009, 04:43 PM

Nice change on the power bill

Just wish I lived further south

jdhuyvetter · 03/24/2009, 06:39 PM

Well, over the weekend I pulled all the old powerheads from behind the rocks (all were toast). I added two more Tunze 6100's, for a total of 4 on a controller. Three of the four are behind the rock and one is in the back corner. Also, added a wavebox. While pulling the old powerheads, I went ahead and pulled all of the rock against the back of the tank that was covered in shrooms, palys and yellow polyps. All were stinging my SPS. Also, spread the SPS out a little bit. Sunday, we are framing the "box". I'll take some new "top down" pics and post them at that time.

CoRPS · 03/24/2009, 06:52 PM

Don't know if it was mentioned, but about how much do they charge to have these solatubes installed after parts/labor/beer for the installer?

jdhuyvetter · 03/24/2009, 07:01 PM

Total package is about $4500. But, that includes 2 solar powered ventilation fans, 21 feet of extension and I had some acrylic diffusers made to install later (maybe??) these tubes are the 14-inch tubes. Based on the HD/Lowes varieties, I'm guessing that I have about $1000 in labor. I had a licensed contractor install the tubes. I wanted the warranty on my roof and tubes themselves. This particular installer gave me a 5 year roof warranty and a 10 year product warranty. These are solatube brand. They seem to be thicker and stiffer than the HD/Lowes brand.

CoRPS · 03/24/2009, 07:12 PM

Wow, $4,500

I mean honestly that's not a LOT of money for lighting in a 300g with no electricity. But the upfront amount is pretty daunting.

In real life is it as yellow as it appears in the photos? Kind of like a mix of 6500K and 10000K?

The more I think about it the more I realize how much of a bargain $4,500 is. Especially when you're saving over $150/month in electricity. It'd pay for itself in 2 and a half years, without taking into account the amount of cash you'd have to throw towards new MH/T5 bulbs every 6mos to a year! Wow, I take back my previous statement.

jdhuyvetter · 03/24/2009, 07:17 PM

Don't forget, the fans .... $1250 for both, installed. Also, I have a concrete tile roof. That was extra too.

If I didn't get the fans, have tile roof or have a cathedral ceiling that required extensions, the cost would have been around $3000 (including tax).

strendo · 03/24/2009, 07:49 PM

Your setup is really nice! I'm thinking of installing solar tubes too. My tank is half under a skylight already though, do you think a solar tube would make a big difference?

cornhusker85 · 03/24/2009, 07:54 PM

Looking nice man If you need any help finishing the frame give me a shout Ill come over and help you.

02/20/2009, 11:41 AM	#51
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	The tubes were dropped 8 inches last night. PAR at the water line went up 100. And, it was completely overcast and at 5 pm when I took the readings. I double checked the old light fixture (now on the frag tank). The PAR that I previously referenced was on a new 10K bulb (right side). It is still around 1180. The 14K bulbs to the left and middle are around 675 and 850. Huge difference. All readings are at the water surface. Solatube readings are about an inch below the bottom of the tube. Once I get the supplemental lights hooked up, I'll update the PAR readings (at the water level) __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

02/20/2009, 01:52 PM	#52
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	FTS today at 2:30. Tube #4 is fixed. All tubes have been lowered. Corals have "browned out". Based on everything I read, I expected this. In 2 or 3 weeks the color should come back even better. Second pic is my Aquarium City Red after 1 week under solar tubes only. [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

02/20/2009, 07:19 PM	#55
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Yes, I get the shimmer, but not quite as strong. But, I get a true dawn and dusk look that you just can't get with MH. __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

02/20/2009, 07:58 PM	#56
JMBoehling Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 2,353	Digging it! I'll tell what is really cool to watch skylight lit reefs on a mostly Sunny day when you get a cloud or two to pass by during midday sun. The the effect of the variance in light is pretty intense, kindoff like when your diving or snorkeling Keep us updated, I following this one all the way. Jim __________________ Richmond Reef Club Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon AGA, Bare Bottom, (02) 10" Skylights, 216 Watts T5HO, (04) 4 watt cree LED's, Deltec AP600 Skimmer

02/23/2009, 07:27 AM	#57
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	OK, Mom's in town for a couple of weeks. Project is on hold until she goes back to Ohio. PC lights are in and temporarily hooked up (sorry Mark). Look great. I'll try to get some pics posted this week. Probably won't get the whole thing completed for at least a month now. __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

02/20/2009, 03:02 PM	#53
mborn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 346	Nice setup. The tankâ€™s looking great!

02/20/2009, 03:19 PM	#54
CRASHJT Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 357	Very cool ....do you get the MH shimmer with that setup?

02/23/2009, 08:15 AM	#58
Ed Ricketts Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 136	jd Great project! can you post your kilowatt usage from this most recent month, compared to a similar period, say last February? Assuming all things being equal otherwise, of course... Energy saver TOTM! __________________ -Mike Current Tank Info: 3x33 gal, and a 40 breeder mixed reef system, total system volume 240 gallons, in a greenhouse

02/23/2009, 02:56 PM	#59
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	Amazing...at the very least... If I could only get the sun to shine long enough in Alaskan winters... __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

02/23/2009, 03:09 PM	#60
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	OK, today at 4 pm. Sun is a little low, but all of the PC supplements are on. Tonight project....hook up the remainder of the pumps/wavemakers and move the chords to the back of the tank. 2x4's are temporary...just wanted to get the PC's up to the correct elevation above the tank. [IMG][/IMG] __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/02/2009, 09:42 AM	#61
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	OK, quick update. The montiporas and larger clams seemed to respond first. Clams opened up about 20% more in a matter of days. Montis showed improved color in less than a week. Acros....mixed bag. Some have new growth tips, one (A. valida) has better color and a couple of STN. This is another reason I am putting the further changes on hold. A brief timeline: December (full moon) - Pocillipora spawning event, Montis tanked, Acros PO'd. I lost a handful of frags, but no colonies. About 10% loss on the colonies that were stressed. Took 2-3 weeks before the montis and acros bounced back. Week between Christmas and New Years - I had swapped out the softie and freshwater tanks in November with the intention of plumbing it in to the main system. I tore down the old frag system and refugium and plumbed everything into the new system. Total plumbing and refugium overhaul. One colony showed some minor STN. All the frags were ticked off at being in a rubbermaid tub for 4 days. January - collecting season on Sanibel. Added a couple of gorgonians and about 6 different sponges. All to the softie tank which is now part of the overall system. Lost a couple of sponges. During this time, one of my big colonies started to STN from the inside out. (No, I did not put 2 and 2 together) Three different collecting trips over a 5 weekend period. February 12 - pulled the old light canopy and installed solar tubes. February 14 - pulled the light diffusers and filters to improve the solar tubes February 19 - added about 12 inches to each solartube and adjusted the angles for better light distribution in the tank. February 21 - Got the Tunze going again (main circulation pumps in the main tank were off since Feb 12). During this time frame the main pump was running and a couple of small supplemental powerheads for water flow. February 22 - Put the PC lights up. February 28 - Changed 50% of the bulbs in the PC's to increase the amount of actinic. Added Erythremycin to the system to try to stop STN in 4 of my colonies. With all of these changes is it any wonder why my Acros are STN? Due to the coral stress issues (and family in town), I have decided to temporarily stop further changes on the tank. I still have to add two more Tunzes and pull out all of the old powerheads. Also want to add a wavebox. Overall, the tank will have better water movement, but it will require me to pull out/rearrange about 25% of the SPS corals located in the top 1/3 of the tank. I want to do this before I frame in the top of the tank. So, until the corals improve....I am done tinkering. __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/02/2009, 11:28 AM	#62
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	the tank is looking great, looks like its adjusting. sorry about the stress on the corals, but I am sure your tank will survive this and come back stronger than before. __________________ - Ryan B "that is enough skimmate to ruin lives." - GSMguy Current Tank Info: 220g Display, 70g sump, 35g frag, 50g fuge, 2x250w MH, 1x400w MH, 2x80w T5, 2x140w VHO Actinic

03/02/2009, 01:55 PM	#63
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	A few of the additions from Sanibel. All are doing well. An interesting sponge. Grows like a lettuce coral. [IMG][/IMG] A very bright red flame sponge (my favorite) [IMG][/IMG] __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/09/2009, 04:33 PM	#64
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Well, Mom is flying back to the great white north (Ohio) tomorrow. I decided that I have a Tunze controller for 4 Tunzes, but I only have two. So...I ordered 2 more 6100's. They'll be here tomorrow. This weekends project is to pull the old powerheads out from behind the rocks and replace 4 powerheads with 2 tunzes. I'll move the existing tunzes to the back corners. I plan on getting a wavebox in a couple of weeks to put in the front right corner. I've got a PVC rack supporting the liverock and have it stacked all the way to the top of the tank in the back. I've decided to pull this live rock and just let the corals fill in the back. Anyway, here is a shot from about 1:30 pm yesterday. Coral color is starting to come back. [IMG][/IMG] __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/09/2009, 04:34 PM	#65
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Oh yeah, partly cloudy. PAR at the water line was fairly consistent. 625 to 675 __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/09/2009, 10:45 PM	#66
dougie Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: NSW AUSTRALIA Posts: 607	very impressive. great work. __________________ Steve Irwin, still my hero, and never forgotten. Current Tank Info: 210 gal, 7x2x2, LED, mp60's. mixed reef.

03/17/2009, 04:06 PM	#67
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Got my first full months power bill in today. $150 less!!!! kWh went from 129.1 last year to 93.2 this year. Next month should really tell the tale though. Had an extra person (mom) in the house for three weeks. Didn't have the PC's hooked up the whole month. Redid the lighting for the frag system and I am currently redoing some of the circulation pumps. Replacing 6 powerheads with 2 tunze's. __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/17/2009, 04:43 PM	#68
Crawf71 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 169	Nice change on the power bill Just wish I lived further south __________________ Chris Current Tank Info: 120g display, 20g sump, 40g refugium. 2x250w DE 14k phoenix

03/24/2009, 06:39 PM	#69
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Well, over the weekend I pulled all the old powerheads from behind the rocks (all were toast). I added two more Tunze 6100's, for a total of 4 on a controller. Three of the four are behind the rock and one is in the back corner. Also, added a wavebox. While pulling the old powerheads, I went ahead and pulled all of the rock against the back of the tank that was covered in shrooms, palys and yellow polyps. All were stinging my SPS. Also, spread the SPS out a little bit. Sunday, we are framing the "box". I'll take some new "top down" pics and post them at that time. __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/24/2009, 06:52 PM	#70
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,887	Don't know if it was mentioned, but about how much do they charge to have these solatubes installed after parts/labor/beer for the installer?

03/24/2009, 07:01 PM	#71
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Total package is about $4500. But, that includes 2 solar powered ventilation fans, 21 feet of extension and I had some acrylic diffusers made to install later (maybe??) these tubes are the 14-inch tubes. Based on the HD/Lowes varieties, I'm guessing that I have about $1000 in labor. I had a licensed contractor install the tubes. I wanted the warranty on my roof and tubes themselves. This particular installer gave me a 5 year roof warranty and a 10 year product warranty. These are solatube brand. They seem to be thicker and stiffer than the HD/Lowes brand. __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/24/2009, 07:12 PM	#72
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,887	Wow, $4,500 I mean honestly that's not a LOT of money for lighting in a 300g with no electricity. But the upfront amount is pretty daunting. In real life is it as yellow as it appears in the photos? Kind of like a mix of 6500K and 10000K? The more I think about it the more I realize how much of a bargain $4,500 is. Especially when you're saving over $150/month in electricity. It'd pay for itself in 2 and a half years, without taking into account the amount of cash you'd have to throw towards new MH/T5 bulbs every 6mos to a year! Wow, I take back my previous statement.

03/24/2009, 07:17 PM	#73
jdhuyvetter SWFMAS Event Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida Posts: 2,179	Don't forget, the fans .... $1250 for both, installed. Also, I have a concrete tile roof. That was extra too. If I didn't get the fans, have tile roof or have a cathedral ceiling that required extensions, the cost would have been around $3000 (including tax). __________________ Be kind to animals.....kiss a shark! "Great things happen when you start to add more light. The heavens open, angels sing and there is Peace on Earth" RockDoc Current Tank Info: 300 gallon stony reef, 300 gallon softie tank, 120 gallon FW/Orchid tank

03/24/2009, 07:49 PM	#74
strendo Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 348	Your setup is really nice! I'm thinking of installing solar tubes too. My tank is half under a skylight already though, do you think a solar tube would make a big difference?

03/24/2009, 07:54 PM	#75
cornhusker85 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cape Coral,FL Posts: 70	Looking nice man If you need any help finishing the frame give me a shout Ill come over and help you.