Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Coral Forums > SPS Keepers
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 03/22/2012, 08:29 PM   #376
MammothReefer
Registered Member
 
MammothReefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA
Posts: 3,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinchick View Post
Uh ... you realize that by continually posting and trying to justify you arent arguing you are therefore arguing, right?

... I'm just sayin'

So in a subject change so we can stop beating that dead horse ...
You realize that by interjecting you are doing the same thing?


__________________
Reefin @ 8298'

Current Tank Info: 105 Peninsula
MammothReefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2012, 08:57 PM   #377
fishinchick
Mrs. Aquaman ;)
 
fishinchick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Saint Cloud, Florida
Posts: 1,494
I'm just pointing out hypocrisy and Jr. Highschool like behavior.

Seriously, if you have nothing useful and non-attacking to offer to someone elses thread, you should go find another thread. This is Chris' thread meant to blog about his tank. Whatever accusations or agenda you have should be taken privately.

In my opinion, your posts really detract from what this thread is about anyway (psst ... it's not about you).


__________________
Often the best answers are the ones using the least complicated explanations and smaller words.

Adrienne Longo-White

Current Tank Info: 55 gallon mixed soft/LPS
fishinchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2012, 09:59 PM   #378
Thales
Registered Member
 
Thales's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: bay area
Posts: 3,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by MammothReefer View Post
I disagree Thales, ignoring ALK and letting that swing around WILL lead to death. PH is a good indicator of your other parameters. You aren't going to have PH threw the roof is something else isn't off, and if you fix the something else your PH will fall back in line. That has always been my experience and has worked out very well for me.
We are, and have been, talking about an emergent situation where the pH has been boosted, by accident, to deadly levels. I am not seeing any other option than to lower the pH immediately or risk the death of animals. We are talking a pH of 9.6 or 10.7 after a bunch of kalk has been dumped in the tank. Of course a bunch of stuff is out of whack, but we know exactly what happend to put it out of whack, and the pH is going to be the thing that will kill animals quickly so you don't have time to wait for it do get back in line by itself while messing with other parameters.
I had fish rolling in the current barely respirating when the pH was 10, as soon as the pH was down to reasonable levels either via vinegar additions of CO2 additions (preferred), the fish snapped back into normal behavior. If I had messed with any other parameter, the fish would have died.

Quote:
I don't agree that your 500 gallon something system is in away comparable to a 20l with 2 piece of tonga branch.
Why? Methodologically, what is the difference that you see?

Quote:
I do however feel that there is often a large communication gap between "professionals" and hobbyists "experts" in a given field often have a very hard time communicating in a manor that is accessible to the majority of us, and don't quite grasp our desires to enjoy and run our tanks not as some grandiose experiment but as relaxing hobby. This is especially true for those whom are still cutting there teeth. I often find myself doing the same thing when discussing my profession it's a trap we all fall into.
I haven't really seen much here that isn't accessible to anyone at any level given a bit of leg work. If the level of the discussion isn't to a particular persons liking, move onto a different discussion. This is not a newbie thread, this is a major geek thread in a major geek forum of RC. If this thread isn't what someone is looking for, why not just move on to one that is?


__________________
The reefer formally known as Lefty
Ink is the way; the way is ink.

Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work
Thales is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 07:17 AM   #379
galleon
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by MammothReefer View Post
Colleague, friend or otherwise the manner which Chris conducts himself both openly on the forum (and privately) in pm. Comes off rude, condescending, and overly defensive. At no point is he open to thoughts, opinions, or suggestions of others. Maybe he is like this in real life, maybe he doesn't translate well online. Either way it's no skin off my back. I would be more then happy to continue on open dialogue on the subject of practical application of PH & Alkalinity in the home aquarium but I would rather not do so with Chris's involvement as I feel he is unable to leave behind his emotions nor is he interested in debate and discussion, only lecture.
I'm sure Thales is laughing his arse off, because he knows me in real life, and he also knows I ask for the thoughts, opinions, and the suggestions of others all the time, to the point of being annoying.

Quote:
I may not know the "fundamentals of carbonate chemistry", but nor do I need to.
You should probably at least understand the difference between carbonate alkalinity and pH.


galleon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 10:41 AM   #380
Todd100
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
As an impartial observer Mammoth has some good points.

I asked what caused the ph spike and you ignored it Galleon.
That's rude.

Your water chemistry was off!
I love minimalist high wattage sps tanks and follow several on our forum. My favorite is a Brazilian tank that runs a handful of ceramic rocks and a Bubble King for the main filtration. The Brazilian tank is bare botton with just enough rock to attach sps on. The tanks ph is stable. The reason I subscribed months ago to follow your thread, is because I hadn't seen it done before. Your tank planning and concept is outside of normal. Calling it thinking "out of the box" is being politically correct. To be honest, your thread intrigued me because of it's risk factor, which is a good thing. You know the saying about risks and rewards. If you had more water volume, rock, or fine aragonite it would've had better ph stability.

A 500 gallon tank being compared to a 20l tank is trying to help out your friend

Why did the spike happen? DID YOU TEST THE MAIN WATER PARAMETERS? Or did you panic and dump vinegar in? Then you did the large water change you should've done after you knew what caused the ph spike.

Heres where I offer some constructive advice. You could get another ph spike if you haven't yet figured out the cause. Please buy an aquarium controller to alert you of ph swings.


Todd100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 10:51 AM   #381
Todd100
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
I don't agree that your 500 gallon something system is in away comparable to a 20l with 2 piece of tonga branch.
Why? Methodologically, what is the difference that you see?

The difference in water stability is huge.
500 gallons is 1892 liters and you say look at my tank it's run the same way. It just happens to be 94 times the water volume. What's the difference?



Last edited by Todd100; 03/23/2012 at 11:04 AM.
Todd100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 10:52 AM   #382
sirreal63
Go Spurs Go!!!
 
sirreal63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Meadowlakes Texas
Posts: 13,357
Todd, reading is fundamental, he did answer in this thread what caused the spike.


__________________
Jack

No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.
sirreal63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 10:53 AM   #383
vitz
Moved On
 
vitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 987



vitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 10:54 AM   #384
vitz
Moved On
 
vitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
The trolls are multiplying. Stop feeding them!


vitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:15 AM   #385
Todd100
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
So why not tell me? I don't want to read 16 pages and shouldn't have to. I asked earlier in a very open way. I asked GALLEON.

I'm not a troll. Why is being curious met with attack? What part of my post was wrong except it's 20 gallon and not 20L. That's still an ocean of difference Calling me a troll is trolling. You're a fanboy Vitz.


Todd100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:19 AM   #386
Thales
Registered Member
 
Thales's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: bay area
Posts: 3,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd100 View Post
I don't agree that your 500 gallon something system is in away comparable to a 20l with 2 piece of tonga branch.
Why? Methodologically, what is the difference that you see?

The difference in water stability is huge.
500 gallons is 1892 liters and you say look at my tank it's run the same way. It just happens to be 94 times the water volume. What's the difference?
I think we already established that that system is larger than Galleons system. What else?


__________________
The reefer formally known as Lefty
Ink is the way; the way is ink.

Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work
Thales is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:20 AM   #387
Thales
Registered Member
 
Thales's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: bay area
Posts: 3,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd100 View Post
Your water chemistry was off!
I love minimalist high wattage sps tanks and follow several on our forum. My favorite is a Brazilian tank that runs a handful of ceramic rocks and a Bubble King for the main filtration. The Brazilian tank is bare botton with just enough rock to attach sps on. The tanks ph is stable. The reason I subscribed months ago to follow your thread, is because I hadn't seen it done before. Your tank planning and concept is outside of normal. Calling it thinking "out of the box" is being politically correct. To be honest, your thread intrigued me because of it's risk factor, which is a good thing. You know the saying about risks and rewards. If you had more water volume, rock, or fine aragonite it would've had better ph stability.
Of course the chemistry was off, a bunch of Kalk slurry got dumped into the tank - no amount of rock or sand would have helped.
I have a 300 gallon system I did the same thing to. Sure more water volume, but that also means that there was more kalk slurry to dump into the tank to end up getting the same problem - its all about ratios.

Quote:
A 500 gallon tank being compared to a 20l tank is trying to help out your friend
The comparison is in the methodology - the two systems are run essentially the same way, everything is just scaled up in the larger one.

Quote:
Why did the spike happen? DID YOU TEST THE MAIN WATER PARAMETERS? Or did you panic and dump vinegar in? Then you did the large water change you should've done after you knew what caused the ph spike.

Heres where I offer some constructive advice. You could get another ph spike if you haven't yet figured out the cause. Please buy an aquarium controller to alert you of ph swings.
We know why the spike happened, a bunch of kalk slurry was accidentally dumped into the tank. There when the pH is 9.7 there is no reason to check any other parameter, you have to lower the pH. If your house is on fire, you put out the fire.


__________________
The reefer formally known as Lefty
Ink is the way; the way is ink.

Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work
Thales is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:27 AM   #388
galleon
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,003
Vitz a fanboy. Now THAT is funny.


galleon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:29 AM   #389
sirreal63
Go Spurs Go!!!
 
sirreal63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Meadowlakes Texas
Posts: 13,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd100 View Post
So why not tell me? I don't want to read 16 pages and shouldn't have to. I asked earlier in a very open way.
ok, but he answered in this thread, the same place you asked. If you chose not to read the answer, what should he have done. FedEx you the answer? Lighten up a little, and remember this a thread, things get posted in sequence, if you don't follow the sequence whose fault is that?


__________________
Jack

No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.
sirreal63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:37 AM   #390
galleon
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,003
Jack, if you're ever up in Austin, shoot me a PM, come over, see the tank, have a beer.


galleon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:41 AM   #391
sirreal63
Go Spurs Go!!!
 
sirreal63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Meadowlakes Texas
Posts: 13,357
I had planned on it, we are still in the process of moving from the house in San Antonio to the house in Marble Falls, the tank is already there but I am stuck in S/A getting ready for a garage sale. I won't send a pm, must be FedEx! LOL!


__________________
Jack

No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.
sirreal63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:45 AM   #392
galleon
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,003
Ah so you're moving closer to Austin then. Nice.


galleon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 11:53 AM   #393
vitz
Moved On
 
vitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
What tf is a 'fanboy'?



Last edited by vitz; 03/23/2012 at 12:09 PM.
vitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 12:06 PM   #394
sirreal63
Go Spurs Go!!!
 
sirreal63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Meadowlakes Texas
Posts: 13,357
I grew up in Austin (Westlake boy) and though I have lived all over, Central Texas will always be home. Once we get settled we will be making the rounds.


__________________
Jack

No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.
sirreal63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 12:20 PM   #395
vitz
Moved On
 
vitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd100 View Post
So why not tell me? I don't want to read 16 pages and shouldn't have to. I asked earlier in a very open way. I asked GALLEON.

I'm not a troll. Why is being curious met with attack? What part of my post was wrong except it's 20 gallon and not 20L. That's still an ocean of difference Calling me a troll is trolling. You're a fanboy Vitz.
Make that a childish and lazy troll


vitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 12:48 PM   #396
Todd100
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
I will lighten up now that I haven't received any more hostility and had my question answered. Kalk overdose is an accident. Followed up by a rush to correct the problem fast with vinegar.

I'm sure Galleon if you had time sleep on it and thought more about the potential effects of that much carbon you would've tried to avoid it. I don't want to see any reefer fail ever. It can be demoralizing and ruin the enjoyment of having a personal slice of the ocean to be amazed by.

A fanboy is a person that looks up to someone like they're a hero or rock star. They praise them, kiss butt, defend them, and say how great that person is. Sounds like your not one but you did call me a bad name so I take it back.

The 500 gallon to 20 gallon comparison is the difference. I'm not emotional involved now in debating. I'm sorry for being condescending in my response to you Thales. It's just that the volume is the difference. Yes you could've had the same accident if you measured your kalk wrong. If you put 25 times the accidental amount of kalk that Galleon did you'd have the same problem. All I should've said is...smaller tanks are more prone to large water chemistry swings and more sensitive to additions and subtractions of essential elements.


Todd100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 01:07 PM   #397
Todd100
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
Oops looks like i should've refreshed my page.
I don't think we'll see eye to eye any time soon Vitz.
You don't know me or my struggles and successes.
Everybody has issues and a daily struggle to be happy and I took to heart a quote in a sig line of an RC member here. It read along the lines of "Be kinder than you have to, you don't know what struggles that person is battling." I often forget this quote but try not to. Please keep that in mind for this community's sake (you are hostile without remorse). I'm a winning tennis coach and do everything I can to help the kid's in my community succeed. It's work that has more reward than just a paycheck. I'm also a small time real estate investor and put in a lot of work building up so far 3 properties when I'm not teaching. I try very hard in life and my family is proud of how I make a living. I'm not lazy, fat, have green skin, or live under a bridge.



Last edited by Todd100; 03/23/2012 at 01:23 PM.
Todd100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 01:09 PM   #398
Thales
Registered Member
 
Thales's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: bay area
Posts: 3,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd100 View Post
I will lighten up now that I haven't received any more hostility and had my question answered. Kalk overdose is an accident. Followed up by a rush to correct the problem fast with vinegar.

I'm sure Galleon if you had time sleep on it and thought more about the potential effects of that much carbon you would've tried to avoid it. I don't want to see any reefer fail ever. It can be demoralizing and ruin the enjoyment of having a personal slice of the ocean to be amazed by.
He did know the potential effects, he just didn't have anything else around to lower the pH and he didn't have time to sleep on it. It's a horrible position to be in, but I would have done the same thing if I was in his situation with what he had on hand. He has even pointed out that he choose to go the vinegar route over CO2, mainly because he felt the need to act quickly.

Quote:
The 500 gallon to 20 gallon comparison is the difference. I'm not emotional involved now in debating. I'm sorry for being condescending in my response to you Thales. It's just that the volume is the difference. Yes you could've had the same accident if you measured your kalk wrong. If you put 25 times the accidental amount of kalk that Galleon did you'd have the same problem. All I should've said is...smaller tanks are more prone to large water chemistry swings and more sensitive to additions and subtractions of essential elements.
No worries, and sure about the water volume in general terms - larger systems tend to be more stable.
This wasn't a measurement problem or a stability problem it was a kalk/ATO issue, and the same thing could have happend (and has happened) on any size tank running the same methodology because everything, even the amount of kalk in the ATO reservoir is scaled to the size of the system. Galleon has taken steps to ensure it won't happen again.




__________________
The reefer formally known as Lefty
Ink is the way; the way is ink.

Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work
Thales is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 01:19 PM   #399
cromedogg33
Registered Member
 
cromedogg33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 506
Hi...Sorry if this is the wrong place, but can anyone tell me what the best skimmer to have is?


__________________
Josh

Current Tank Info: 180G in-wall, 3x 250w MH radiums on M80 ballasts, Cree LED actinics, Deltec TC2560, Bubble Magus Doser, 4x Vortech Mp40, Dart return, Neptune Apex
cromedogg33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2012, 01:48 PM   #400
Thales
Registered Member
 
Thales's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: bay area
Posts: 3,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by cromedogg33 View Post
Hi...Sorry if this is the wrong place, but can anyone tell me what the best skimmer to have is?

The most expensive skimmer is the best skimmer.


__________________
The reefer formally known as Lefty
Ink is the way; the way is ink.

Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work
Thales is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My JBJ 28gal Nano Build Thread ange062 Nano Reefs 1215 02/02/2018 09:12 PM
Fishdisease's 180 Gallon In-Wall Build Fishdisease Reef Discussion 28 12/18/2017 10:02 PM
My 20G Nano Reef Build Thread Bowels Nano Reefs 192 11/28/2013 11:33 PM
My JBJ 12g dx quazi-build thread chris35moto Nano Reefs 3 12/07/2011 02:53 PM
12G Nano Cube Upgrade/Rebuild jaguarmonk Nano Reefs 20 04/06/2011 09:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.