Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 10/10/2003, 09:57 AM   #76
prop-frags
SPS Slave
 
prop-frags's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 3,447
I am in the process of purchasing my equipment for this project. I went to BatteriesPlus and got a 100AH AGM VRLA battery from Celltec. These are made for deep cycle, they're sealed (no fumes, no spill, no refill, no mess, no worries for indoor application, etc), but they're pricy. The battery was about $130. I also picked up a float charger there which can be continually powered on and will send ZERO charge to the battery when it's not needed. Most of the trickle chargers drop down to a very small amount once the battery is charged, but it still sends juice to it, reducing it's shelf-life.

I'll post pics and results of my project once I'm done!


__________________
- Mike & Terry
"Less technology, more biology ... indeed." - Gary White

Current Tank Info: 200g temp garage tank
prop-frags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/03/2003, 11:09 AM   #77
roidan
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: singapore
Posts: 58
when we buy a 3pdt relay..the bottom only states number 1 to 11 pin...how we know which to connect the wires to? really dumbfounded here


roidan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/13/2003, 10:17 AM   #78
musicsmaker
Premium Member
 
musicsmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ravenna, OH
Posts: 3,046
TAG! This has to be one of the best DIY threads in RC history.


__________________
Time
- a measurement of passing causality
musicsmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/30/2003, 08:25 PM   #79
Beagly
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney - Australia
Posts: 1
G'day Playfair (and anyone else that may be able to shed some light on the problem or possible solutions.)

I am from Australia, and I am desperately searching for a solution to when the power goes off at my place, for my fish.

I have located and built a system that is supposed to work. The link is below, however all the system seems to do is blow up inverters. Intermitently!

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...kup_power.html


I am thinking that maybe the inverter is somehow receiving 240 volts? I have built the system exactly as described! (I have no electrical knowledge unfortunately!)

From the home made switch box there is a cable that runs for about 10-12 meters, there it splits via a normal double adapter and heads off to two air compressors. When combined they are only rated at 80 watts (240 Volts)

The system seems to fail when switching from 240 Volt house supply over to the inverter powered circuit. The inverter generally starts screeming "output short", however paradoxically it keeps powering the circuit, until the inverter is turned off by a resumption of mains power or if I turn it off. Then the inverter fails to function at all.

Can you see any problems or solutions?

I would like to thankyou for your valuable time and any assistance that you may be able to provide.

Thanks again Matthew...


Beagly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/31/2003, 12:58 AM   #80
Zephrant
Premium Member
 
Zephrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,227
What is the voltage out of the inverter? If you don't have a multi-meter, drop by the hardware store and pickup something, anything. In the US, they are some dirt cheap ones ($10 or so) that are far better than staring at the wire and guessing.

Buying a good Fluke is something that I will never regret though- They last forever. I still have one that is about 15 years old.

Zeph


Zephrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/31/2003, 12:57 PM   #81
Galford
Registered Member
 
Galford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 116
Lightbulb Source for inverter

Anyone thought of using this inverter?

http://www.tripplite.com PV375

Here is the best price I could find on it-

From Provantage.com


Galford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/31/2003, 01:48 PM   #82
musicsmaker
Premium Member
 
musicsmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ravenna, OH
Posts: 3,046
I know what a sine wave is, but what is a "PWM" sine wave?


__________________
Time
- a measurement of passing causality
musicsmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/01/2004, 12:04 AM   #83
Zephrant
Premium Member
 
Zephrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,227
Pulse Width Modulated sine wave. Visualize a sine wave, but made up like a stair-case going up and down.

PWM is not as good as a sine wave. Each "step" throws high frequency noise on the wire, but they are much cheaper.


Zeph


Zephrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/18/2004, 09:05 AM   #84
usafa93
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Greenwich, CT
Posts: 173
I not so sure my post belongs on the DIY site, but it may really interest folks here nonetheless. Right now Belkin is offering 50% off on their website" www.belkin.com

When you order, you need to enter this code to take advantage of the savings: 35491 This deal is good through the end of January 2004.

This may interest people, because they have UPSs for sale. I picked-up 2 of the 1200VA for well below $200, including shipping. Some of the pertinent specs:

• Battery load capacity: 1200VA (670 Watts)
• Provides 6 Outlets: 4 battery backup outlets w/surge protection and 2 outlets w/surge protection only

While I was at it, I also bought a few of the heavy-duty surge protectors.

What's the group concensus? Do you think 2 of these babys should keep an 85 gallon tank circulating for a while (1 pump for the skimmer, and 1 return pump)? How long do you estimate?

I'm not overly concerned about keeping the lights on, the fish can deal with the candlelight like their human friends. I just want to keep the filters running until I can get home and hook-up an inverter to the car or until the power comes back on.


usafa93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/26/2004, 08:32 PM   #85
Playfair
Premium Member
 
Playfair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Rochester, NY USA
Posts: 2,307
Beagly, I'm sorry I couldn't help you out after all our emails. At least you found this bb, and that's a good thing!

For the people not wanting to DIY or that need to provide more than 100 watts of auto-backup power (even with a larger inverter, this DIY design does instant switching and greater currents cause severe arcing) I highly recommend the tripplite APS series, like the 512 model which has a 3 stage charger and can handle parallel batteries. An old style transformer inverter allows surges of 2x the rated supply.


__________________
"Anything worth doing, is worth OVER doing"

Current Tank Info: 7 gal mini-bow

Last edited by Playfair; 01/26/2004 at 08:40 PM.
Playfair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/26/2004, 08:54 PM   #86
musicsmaker
Premium Member
 
musicsmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ravenna, OH
Posts: 3,046
I just bought a 750 watt inverter yesterday, and was going to get a relay from all electronics to finish this project. My intentions were to hook up a 250 watt heater and a MAG-7 (soon to be a 9.5) to it incase of power failure.

What's this about sever arcing over 100 watts? Please elaborate.


__________________
Time
- a measurement of passing causality
musicsmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2004, 08:49 AM   #87
playa
Moved On
 
playa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,338
bump


playa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2004, 09:32 AM   #88
jeff_s1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 31
For a reasonably priced UPS go to :APC® Back-UPS Pro 1100


jeff_s1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2004, 11:52 AM   #89
Fourseahorsemen
Registered Member
 
Fourseahorsemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Fishers
Posts: 413
Do off the shelf UPS's have a relay built in? The most difficult part of this DIY appears to be finding a relay that can handle the power, then wiring it so that it dosen't arc or blow. Could you just take a cheap UPS apart and use it's relay?...we are the borg...resistance if futile...

4C


Fourseahorsemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/08/2004, 02:50 PM   #90
grochmal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 648
Re: Re: fuse question for DIY backup

Quote:
Originally posted by Playfair
The fuse should go on the hot (black) wire. It is not used to protect the inverter (safety is built in), but instead the relay. Since the contacts are only rated at 5A, we need to guarantee they don't see more than that with an easilly replaceable fuse.
Which hot (black) wire are you referring to here?
Is it the black wire coming from the wall (line AC) that goes into the relay, or on the wire coming out of the relay that goes to the pump?
I don't see your fuse on any of your pictures.
Jeff


grochmal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/08/2004, 02:54 PM   #91
grochmal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 648
Re: Check out my new DIY power back up! (400k of pics)

Quote:
Originally posted by Playfair

I don't see the line AC coming into here, where is it coming from?
And I'm confused what the cord labeled "to battery charger" is for.
I thought that would be plugged directly into the wall.


grochmal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/09/2004, 07:27 AM   #92
A Reef Scene
Registered Member.
 
A Reef Scene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montgomery, Illinois
Posts: 1,469
looks great, has it had a chance to work yet?


A Reef Scene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/13/2004, 05:18 PM   #93
grochmal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 648
bump


__________________
Jeff

Current Tank Info: 125 gallon bare-bottom reef, 6' Maristar light, Tunze streams, 55 gallon sump, ASM G3 skimmer, RDSB
grochmal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/20/2004, 09:07 PM   #94
Playfair
Premium Member
 
Playfair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Rochester, NY USA
Posts: 2,307
"A Reef Scene", Yes it has been called for service on a few occassions. I mentioned in here somewhere that my original backup know belongs to another guy in our club. I needed more capacity so I ended up getting a commercial unit.

Music Maker, you could probably add the heater once the pump starts with no problems, but turning on both together could be trouble. I don't have a heater running off my backup in order to maximize the time it can run for (heaters gobble up the battery fast, you'd be looking at 3 hours instead of 10)

Grochmal, there's a reddish connector at the right of the box which gets AC in and supplies AC out either from the line or the inverter. I remotely located the backup in my basement and ran a double corded line up to the tank. AC in was provided off my tanks GFI, and AC out ran to a plug that the main return pump is powered from. The fuse is at the other end not shown in that picture, and is located on the output.

As far as the "arcing", what I think happens is this: The relay contacts weld from an instantaneous high current draw produced from a motor, resulting damage to the inverter when line power comes on. I was running a mag18 when this happened (twice), and I didn't have the resources to persue the perfect solution.

However, with a replacement inverter I tested a mag9 MANY times and ended up selling the unit to someone who uses one. It's worked several times flawlessly for him.

I don't know what the computer backups use to switch or if they solve this problem. It's possible that a large inductive load would do similar damage to them.


__________________
"Anything worth doing, is worth OVER doing"

Current Tank Info: 7 gal mini-bow
Playfair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/20/2004, 09:22 PM   #95
musicsmaker
Premium Member
 
musicsmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ravenna, OH
Posts: 3,046
Thanks, Dave. I was thinking about this since my last post, and I think the problem could be solved by using multiple relays. For me 3 hours is cool (for now), because by then I can get it all hooked up to a running vehicle.


__________________
Time
- a measurement of passing causality
musicsmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/21/2004, 11:56 AM   #96
jeff_s1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 31
Another option to consider. I purchaced a used APC 1400 on ebay. With shipping cost me $43 (no batteries included). New batteries for it on ebay $62. For $105 I got a unit that will carry 900 watts and protect against surges. My 6000 btu chiller pulls about 750 watts.

Jeff


jeff_s1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2004, 02:47 PM   #97
sweede
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1
old threads die hard!!


i read this whole thing and a few people mentioned something very very important and only a couple people touched on it.

the battery.
you do NOT NEVER EVER EVER want to use a regular car battery from Farm & Fleet (lead/acid) in your home.. or anywhere where there is a potential for a spark (like the relay that you have on top of it).

when these batteries charge or give off energy, the chemical recation produces both a toxic and an explosive gas (the reaction is larger when charging, but also present when discharging/using the battery).

if these gasses are allowed to build up without proper ventalation they will be dangerous.

a couple people suggested venting to the outside, which is a good idea but can be expensive if you're setup is not near an outside wall.

The correct solution was also mentiond, but never touched upon.

using a Gel-cell sealed battery. I do beleive the marine type might be, but im not 100% sure. I am 100% sure that the Optima line of 12v batteries are 100% sealed and do not give off explosive gasses

Also, the bigger optima batters can last for hours under full load. Considering that indy and stock cars use optima batteries to save on alternator wieght and hp drain, but drive the car for 2-3 hours or more at full load, they can handle an inverter drawing 25 amps or so.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/publi...nfig/home.html

get a yellow top battery.


__________________
Bjorn Sodergren
sweede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2004, 05:37 PM   #98
BeanAnimal
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,857
The "gel-cell" batteries are not well suited to deep discharge cycles. They are not a good choice for UPS situations. Deep cycle "marine" batteries are the standard. A single 12v deep cycle battery will not pose a threat in a "normally" ventilated house or open area.

Most UPS systems use SVLA batteries. These are "sealed valved lead acid" cells. The batteries are much better than gels and almost as good as standard lead acid types.

Gel-cels and SVLA batteries have a very short usefull life. You will find that they will last you betweem 18-36 months. Kinda expensive to say the least. Standard lead acids last at least twice as long.

You also need to be aware of the recomended charging and discharging cycles for the selected cells. You wil find that they need to be discharged and recharged from time to time. Otherwise they will cease to function as efficiently. However every battery has a finite charge/discharge lifespan... so each time you use it.. the battery deteriorates a bit more.

Bean


BeanAnimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2004, 07:44 PM   #99
odenwell
Premium Member
 
odenwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Littleton, CO USA
Posts: 247
I don't think a build up of hydrogen gas is a concern unless you are using a 10+ amp battery charger and the battery is in a tightly enclosed area. I small 1 - 2 amp battery maintainer will not cause a build up of gas. Period.


odenwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/11/2004, 09:47 PM   #100
musicsmaker
Premium Member
 
musicsmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ravenna, OH
Posts: 3,046
Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Deep cycle "marine" batteries are the standard.
Some of the 6-pack batteries are deep cycle.


__________________
Time
- a measurement of passing causality
musicsmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:18 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014