Instant Ocean + Alkalinity

[CaLevi]

Having struggled to get my alkalinity in check, last night I finally traced why my alkalinity is so high.... when adding to my 0 reading for RO/DI water, after mixing in the IO salt...my reading was 14, yes, FOURTEEN.

Is this a known issue? Is this a bad batch? Would this be the same as their Reef Crystal product? I would think this is a quality control issue to have wasted $50+ of 200gal worth of salt.

Curious to hear feedback from others.

[homer1475]

That might be a bit high for regular IO. IORC mixes up to around 14.

After several 200G boxes of regular IO(purple box), it mixes up to 9 to 10DKH.

What I do is add a small amount of muriatic acid to lower the DKH in my mixed up water.

Formula is:
water volume x DKH drop x 0.123 = acid to add

Example:
30G of water, 5 dkh drop

30 x 5 x 0.123 = 18.45ml of muriatic acid.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

What salinity are you mixing to? Do you trust your salinity and alkalinity measurements?

[OhsCC]

Instant Ocean has really high Alk. My Alk was up at 17 dkh.

My LFS switched me to AquaForest that has a really low Alk 6-10 (read the reviews). I now alternate between Instant Ocean and AquaForest. I now have my Alk down to 13 dkh.

AquaForest mixes a lot better and looks like a fine powder.

[CaLevi]

[homer1475] thanks for the feedback. I buy the purple boxes. Not clear on several boxes part. I don't have the space to mix up several 200gal boxes worth together. Is that what people do? Should I infer that in fact each box varies? In each box are 5 or so bags, would each bag vary as well?

[der_wille_zur_macht] I am aiming for 1.026

The issue now is I'm fighting an alk in my tank at 14, and everywhere I read says to keep doing a water change to get it down.... well it doesn't help when I'm putting 14 back into the tank!!

[CaLevi]

[OhsCC] isn't 13dkh still really high? Wouldn't you still see some tips burning on your corals? I thought the aim was to get it under 10dkh and anything over is a problem.

[lapin]

In "The Reef Chemistry Forum" there is a sticky about salt mixes. Near the end of the thread there is some talk of using mineral acid to reduce Alk. before adding the mix to your tank. It might be an option. You might read up on how this will effect your tank.

[homer1475]

Originally Posted by lapin

In "The Reef Chemistry Forum" there is a sticky about salt mixes. Near the end of the thread there is some talk of using mineral acid to reduce Alk. before adding the mix to your tank. It might be an option. You might read up on how this will effect your tank.

I posted the formula above.

What I meant about several boxes, was over the course of a year or so I've mixed up a couple boxes. Not all at once. lol

I just checked my receipts, I have purchased 15 200G boxes and have never seen anything over 10DKH @1.025SG(I post what a new batch mixes up to, and what I add to get it to where I want it in my log book). I wonder if you got a bad box, or your salinity is off.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I would double check your salinity measurement and your alkalinity measurement. If either is off, that could explain this.

I know IO has a reputation for mixing high, but your reading is incredibly high. Any time I see readings out of line, my first response is to doubt the measurement method. Calibrate or check against a known standard and make sure you're doing the procedure correct for both measurements.

[OhsCC]

Yes 13 dhk is still high. Still doing more water changes to reduce it.

I only have red mushrooms and they aren't too picky. The mushrooms are multiplying like crazy.

[homer1475]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

i don't mean to beat a dead horse, but i would double check your salinity measurement and your alkalinity measurement. If either is off, that could explain this.

I know io has a reputation for mixing high, but your reading is incredibly high. Any time i see readings out of line, my first response is to doubt the measurement method. Calibrate or check against a known standard and make sure you're doing the procedure correct for both measurements.

+1000

[outy]

Id let it sit a day or two and measure again, or take it in and get a second opinion. Put in a tank it may settle down.

[Mickey]

I have used IO for years and if anything the alk in my tank is always low. I rarely measure the new salt water. My suggestion is to let it sit in mixing container a few days and then test again. I almost always have fresh saltwater sitting there ready to use so it always is days old. The alk must dissipate over time.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[HBtank]

Originally Posted by Mickey

I have used IO for years and if anything the alk in my tank is always low. I rarely measure the new salt water. My suggestion is to let it sit in mixing container a few days and then test again. I almost always have fresh saltwater sitting there ready to use so it always is days old. The alk must dissipate over time.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

This is my experience with IO, the high alk seems to be transient for freshly mixed water. I have two 30g containers and always let one "age" before using it while mixing a new batch in the other.. and repeat.

[JammyBirch]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

What salinity are you mixing to? Do you trust your salinity and alkalinity measurements?

+1 I’d look into this first

[ReeferNoob4ever]

I'm with Mickey on this one. I've used IO (plain) for years and my DKH stays at 9.

[RobZilla04]

Mixed at 35ppt / 1.026sg values are as follows for Instant Ocean.

Cal 400
Alk 11
Mag 1350

Bottom line is your ppt/sg is high to get a NSW mix of 14 dKH.

Did you let the batch fully dissolve before testing? Was there residual on/in the bucket from the previous mix?

[mcgyvr]

It seems that either IO has changed their parameters again or we have had a rash of people that can't measure correctly or the are having quality control issues..
Regular IO should be 400ppm cal, 11dKH alk, 1350ppm mag (at 35ppt/1.026 salinity)

But lately I have seen quite a few posts where users are reporting quite different numbers..

As always its a very good idea to test your freshly mixed saltwater at least once when you open a new bag or box or bucket from them and you should mix the salt itself some prior to use (roll the bucket around or whatever) in case it as settled some..

If you test your fresh saltwater then problems like this just don't happen as you can correct as needed..

I will say that based on the amount of posts I've seen lately its got me wanting to change salt brands but I'm not sure that these same types of issues don't happen to most suppliers..

[CaLevi]

I did check my refractometer and it's calibrated fine.

For testing, I have been testing it using two different test kits and been getting high readings.

Here's my confusion a little on some of the feedback...
(1) I usually buy the 200gal box of IO, with multiple bags; so an unknown is if each bag is from a different lot? if yes, then would explain the argument to mix up the salt, otherwise, it's a uniform product, so why would you bother mixing?
(2) Curious on the science/argument of letting it rest and it's affects on Alk.
(3) Granted at my level of 14, 11 would be great... but isn't 11 still considered high?

Excuse the obvious training wheels on my questions.... still trying to master water quality 101 to get my corals growing.

[RobZilla04]

Originally Posted by CaLevi

I did check my refractometer and it's calibrated fine.

For testing, I have been testing it using two different test kits and been getting high readings.

Here's my confusion a little on some of the feedback...
(1) I usually buy the 200gal box of IO, with multiple bags; so an unknown is if each bag is from a different lot? if yes, then would explain the argument to mix up the salt, otherwise, it's a uniform product, so why would you bother mixing?
(2) Curious on the science/argument of letting it rest and it's affects on Alk.
(3) Granted at my level of 14, 11 would be great... but isn't 11 still considered high?

Excuse the obvious training wheels on my questions.... still trying to master water quality 101 to get my corals growing.

12dKH is considered the top of the ideal range from what I have found among multiple resources. You'll find lots of folks between the ranges of 6/7 to 10/11. None are wrong and none are right. It all depends on what works for your system. Stability is the main goal.

[jd371]

Originally Posted by ReeferNoob4ever

I'm with Mickey on this one. I've used IO (plain) for years and my DKH stays at 9.

The same for me. I test the mixed water all the time and at 1.025 I find the DKH exactly where I want it, but usually have to make small adjustments to Ca and Mg.

[HBtank]

Originally Posted by CaLevi

I did check my refractometer and it's calibrated fine.

For testing, I have been testing it using two different test kits and been getting high readings.

Here's my confusion a little on some of the feedback...
(1) I usually buy the 200gal box of IO, with multiple bags; so an unknown is if each bag is from a different lot? if yes, then would explain the argument to mix up the salt, otherwise, it's a uniform product, so why would you bother mixing?
(2) Curious on the science/argument of letting it rest and it's affects on Alk.
(3) Granted at my level of 14, 11 would be great... but isn't 11 still considered high?

Excuse the obvious training wheels on my questions.... still trying to master water quality 101 to get my corals growing.

Don’t know the full chemistry, but essentially ALL mixes will lose dKH over time and that parameter appears to be the least stable; whether in our tanks or a bucket. People just assume in our tanks it is “natural” processes and their tanks used it to drop to their typical level. The reality is they honestly don’t know.

The thought is that carbonate precipitation seems to occur with fresh mixed water, with the mechanism not entirely known, but that heat and movement appear to accelerate it. Some have guessed that container surfaces may effect it to (and dirty containers with less precipitate). Some discussion below:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2468612&page=3

Matches my experience and why I really don’t care about reef crystals reported high dKH (at levels that should almost harm tanks; 13 dKH). I personally think fresh saltwater readings are misleading, never had my RC tank itself go over 9 dKH even with fresh mix changes, drops very quick in both the mixing tank or display tank.

Lots of people use IO, yet don’t have 11-14 dKH tanks; obviously there is a disconnect.

[mcgyvr]

Just throwing this out for your reading/learning enjoyment if you haven't seen it already..
It talks about most reef parameters/gives the typically acceptable "ranges",etc..
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

[RobZilla04]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Just throwing this out for your reading/learning enjoyment if you haven't seen it already..
It talks about most reef parameters/gives the typically acceptable "ranges",etc..
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

This should be a mandatory read for those starting up. Maybe a section called "Killing Time While Cycling"!

I've read it numerous times and have it bookmarked for reference.

[CaLevi]

Thanks!! I appreciate all the feedback.