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Unread 06/27/2020, 11:08 AM   #1
Sk8r
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Are corals that hard? FYI

If I kept a fish-only, personally, I'd still keep one rock of discosoma mushrooms. They'll tell you when the water needs fixing by not opening full every day. Fish just smile and say, "I'm fine" until they're down. I view hardy coral as a living water test. And discosomas are not hard to please, moderately adequate light and water in the good range, and they're cool. They also add a bit of color.

Softies like buttons, mushrooms, and various non-stony corals like kenya tree and encrusting polyps (green star) etc, take nothing more than lighting and good water. No special equipment. But stability. And a little coral-diplomacy, which means don't put a cantankerous cabbage leather coral (they all are cantankerous for no reason) upstream of your zoas.
Zoas, btw, are prone to nudi infestations, and you should hold them in quarantine for a couple of weeks, looking them over daily to be sure nothing hatched. But once in and happy, they will spread.
Green star is so happy in a really good water system you have to beat it back with a stick. It'll grow right up the glass, in which case you have to peel some of it off and find a store that wants it.

If you want to invest in a kalk system (supplies calcium hand over fist) you can raise stony corals, either the fluffy ones or the colored sticks. Personally, I'd advise fluffy, for beginners. Lighting is critical for the stonies: you need good lights designed for corals. You also need a kalk system, which can be as simple as feeding 2 tsp powdered kalk per gallon into your ordinary topoff water, or as spendy as a controller, with all its abilities. These corals will tell you (just like mushrooms) when they're not happy, but they're fussier, and can be wiped out by putting, say, a torch coral next to a more delicate specimen. They have tentacles, some with a 6" reach, that come out at night, and they are definitely harder to do well with. You may also find that an aggressive euphyllia like hammer or torch just out-competes every other species and takes over the tank. Chemical warfare that discourages others. OTOH, a tank full of euphyllia is pretty.

In short, get past your beginner water oopsies---we all do them---and get a topoff system and a logbook for water tests weekly, and when you can point to a 4-week record of very stable water in terms of temperature, salinity, calcium level, alk dkh reading, magnesium level, with prospects of carrying those conditions forward, you can probably handle tough softies and tough stonies like bubble, torch, hammer; and such with fair expectation of success. Stay away from the colored sticks until you configure your NEXT set-up. Those are the bleeding edge of the hobby.

Whatever type you choose, just keep records, write readings and date of new corals down: invaluable when you have to look back and think back to solve a problem.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/05/2020, 05:56 AM   #2
jmsilhy
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Exactly what I was looking for, I think this should be a sticky; thanks Sk8r!


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Unread 07/07/2020, 06:17 PM   #3
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Right


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Unread 07/08/2020, 03:42 PM   #4
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what about some one like me, who can grow a lot of "easy" sps like montipora, birds nest, spylophora, but cant freaking grow healthy acroporas.
they not dying, but they dont look good ether.
btw thank you for all your posts, i learn alot from them!


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Unread 07/09/2020, 10:11 AM   #5
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It might be your lights: that's the most common problem. If it's LEDs, getting on the right program.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/09/2020, 01:05 PM   #6
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IMO, acros are one of the most demanding of water chemistry and are not tolerant of changes in temp, chemistry and light.

I found them almost impossible in a mixed reef as their requirements are much different and it is hard (but not impossible) to provide both environments in a stable and consistent format.


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Unread 07/09/2020, 01:38 PM   #7
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They are definitely the bleeding edge and heartbreaker of this hobby. I can remember when we were happy to see growth out of green star polyp (those of you who have kept it lately will know it as that stuff that will carpet rocks and grow right up your glass) and now we can grow LPS like mad. Acros remain truly fussy, and seem to like new tanks, which says that ultimate purity and clarity, low nutrient, and the balance of micro-trace elements (which you only get really balanced in a brand new salt setup with new water) may be part of it.Thus lulling the new hobbyist into getting more of them, I dunno. They truly do test your resolve to continue.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/10/2020, 04:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
It might be your lights: that's the most common problem. If it's LEDs, getting on the right program.
Because of them I switched from led to t5, couple month ago.
2 month no diference.


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Unread 07/10/2020, 05:13 PM   #9
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What does your temp, Nitrate and Phosphate normally run at?
How much flux do these levels experience?


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Unread 07/11/2020, 09:36 PM   #10
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500+ gallon system, temp stays around 79, nitrates at 5ppm, phosphates .2-.4. alkalinity stays at 9dkh with help of calcium reactor, calcium is at 490, mag 1400 ( did alot (150g) of water changes with reef crystals salt, doing so it raised my calcium). I know i got high phosphates, im also in process of setting up 100g refugium in my sump and my frag tank. i feed heavy with ice cubes.

as far as lights goes, i never measured par when i had leds on my tank. now i removed some of my leds, and added 8 t5 bulbs.


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Unread 07/11/2020, 09:45 PM   #11
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here is my reports.
sorry about picture upside down, dont know how to fix it.
also please disregard the last 5 high nitrate levels, i was testing with expired nitrate kit. and the last test was tested with brand new kit.


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File Type: jpg water testing.jpg (52.2 KB, 28 views)
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Unread 07/12/2020, 02:04 AM   #12
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Here are my plans for my corals, for now at least (first year or so):

Softies-

1 frag Discosoma

1 frag Rhodactis

1 frag Ricordea Florida

1 frag GSP

1 frag Zoanthids

1 frag Palythoas / Propopalythoas

1 frag Toadstool Leather

1 frag Glove Polyps




LPS:

1 frag Trumpet Coral

1 frag Candy Cane Coral

1 frag Bubble Coral

1 frag Frogspawn Coral

1 frag Hammer Coral

1 frag Meteor Coral

1 frag Duncan Coral

(What can I add as an 8th frag?)


How does this look? As a first timer I’ve decided to start with the easy corals for both softies and LPS.

Important question: For LPS corals do I have to:

1. Regularly dose Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium.

2. Use Calcium and Carbon Reactors.

3. Target feed / broadcast feed the corals or can they thrive without feedings?


Thanks!


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Unread 07/12/2020, 11:10 AM   #13
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To your bottom questions: 1-yes: must 2: no: you can use a kalk drip 3. no. Most are competent to feed themselves. There are some corals you do need to feed, but they probably won't last long anyway.

I'd skip the palythoas. They grow fast, but they are toxic, and a careless moment can be a problem. With the stonies, trumpet and candycane are nearly the same thing. Your euphyllia (hammer) will tend to take over; and I don't know which variety they're calling meteor---ah, cyphaestra; keep that WELL away from bubble and hammer. Bubble is low light, practically alone of the stonies; and has a 6 inch tentacle reach at night. Keep at least 6" distance between all stony frags, up and down as well as sideways. There is the visible threat of tentacles, but also the invisible 'spitting distance' of chemical attack.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/12/2020, 11:50 AM   #14
Zionas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
To your bottom questions: 1-yes: must 2: no: you can use a kalk drip 3. no. Most are competent to feed themselves. There are some corals you do need to feed, but they probably won't last long anyway.

I'd skip the palythoas. They grow fast, but they are toxic, and a careless moment can be a problem. With the stonies, trumpet and candycane are nearly the same thing. Your euphyllia (hammer) will tend to take over; and I don't know which variety they're calling meteor---ah, cyphaestra; keep that WELL away from bubble and hammer. Bubble is low light, practically alone of the stonies; and has a 6 inch tentacle reach at night. Keep at least 6" distance between all stony frags, up and down as well as sideways. There is the visible threat of tentacles, but also the invisible 'spitting distance' of chemical attack.


Thanks for the info. If you were me what would you do for easy LPS corals? And do the rest of my selection of soft corals look good?


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Unread 07/12/2020, 12:31 PM   #15
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I like what Sk8r has laid out above.
For LPS, I really like Scolymia but are expensive, but the colour, wow.
Also brains/tracs not so bad, but both, easy to keep.
For feeding I only broadcast now, after lights out, no flow, no skim for 30-45 minutes.
I used to target my scollies and tracs, but my shrimp pic at them, so no more.

Now, yes, you got to keep Alk, CA and Mg in the range and stable, Alk being the one you got to watch the most. As far as dosing, I only commence this once my weekly water change can no longer keep me in the range, then, we gotta add these because corals are using up more than a water change can put back.....

As far as the method of dosing I use two part, for me I have been using a Seachem Fusion 1 and Fusion 2 because the concentration is always the same.

Once my water changes could no longer keep me in the ranges and stable, I moved to daily dosing by hand. This I did for a few months so I could get a good handle the daily amount.

Then, I bought a 4 channel doser to automate this task, plus, I could split the dose into many small doses which increased stability.

The doser also allowed me to dose at a specific time, so for Alk, I dose every hour but only after lights out, this has resulted in a higher level of stability in my PH.
The opposite is true for Nopox, only while lights are on.



Last edited by Uncle99; 07/12/2020 at 12:38 PM.
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Unread 07/12/2020, 01:50 PM   #16
Zionas
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Wow, thanks for all the great info. I’m definitely looking into Reef Fusion 1-2.

I’ve sort of revised my list of the LPS and softies I want to get, not sure how this looks:

Softies-

1 frag Zoanthids

1 frag Actinodiscus Mushroom

1 frag Rhodactis Mushroom

1 frag Ricordea Florida

1 frag Toadstool Leather

1 frag GSPs

1 frag Kenya Tree

1 frag Yellow Leather (S. Elegans)

1 frag Pulsing Xenia



LPS Corals:

1 frag Frogspawn (Branching)

1 frag Hammer (Branching)

1 frag Cynarina

1 frag Bubble Coral

1 frag Candy Cane / Trumpet Coral

1 frag Tongue Coral

1 frag Meteor (Cyphastrea) Coral

1 frag Duncans

1 frag Tongue Coral (Polyphyllia)

1 frag Donut Coral (A. Lordhowensis)

1 frag Maze Coral (Platygyra)

1 frag Blastomussa (B. Wellsi)


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Unread 07/12/2020, 03:01 PM   #17
Sk8r
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Each tank is so individual that it's hard to predict which coral will thrive most, but something will and it will tend to take over.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/12/2020, 03:03 PM   #18
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Zheka, you're doing good to be keeping a log. My eyesight can't handle it upside down, but you are testing and that is good. Shoot for nitrates under 10, and a set of parameters like mine in my sig line. There's a post up top titled "Cycling isn't the end of it" that will help you with parameters.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/13/2020, 08:54 AM   #19
Zionas
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I’ve spent the last hour or so going over the lighting, flow, and care requirements for both softies and LPS corals. I’ve crossed most of them that say Medium to High or High lighting and flow, with the exception of GSPs and Toadstool Leather because I know they can adapt to just about anything.


Maybe I’ll have these as my “starter” frags:

LPS-

1. Branching Frogspawn (E. Paradivisa)

2. Branching Hammer (E. Paranchora)

3. Bubble Coral (P. Sinuosa)

4. Maze Brain Coral (Platygyra spp.)

5. Open Brain Coral (Trachyphyllia Geofrfrayi)

6. Duncan Coral (Duncanopsammia spp.)

7. Pineapple Brain Coral (Blastomussa Wellsi)

8. Crystal Brain Coral (Cynarina Lacrymalis)

9. Donut Brain Coral (Acanthastrea Lordhowensis)

10. Candy Cane / Trumpet Coral (C. Furcata / C. Curvata)



Soft Corals:

1. Actinodiscus Mushroom (Discosoma spp.)

2. Rhodactis Mushroom (Rhodactis inchoata / Mussoides)

3. Green Star Polyps (Briareum spp.)

4. Zoanthids (Zoanthus spp.)

5. Glove Polyps (Clavularia spp.)

6. Toadstool Leather Coral (Sarcophyton)


Do you see any problems with compatibility with my tentative starter list?


Also, when LA uses terms like Placement: All / Low / Medium etc. what do they mean?

What is considered low / medium / strong lighting / flow?

Any other suggestions for easy softies and LPS corals?


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Unread 07/13/2020, 10:51 AM   #20
Sk8r
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Clavularia --- toxins. Toadstool--- same. Green star---will crowd out all other corals. The others are ok. .Mushrooms will go on the lowest tier, on separate rocks, so you can remove one rock if it's getting out of hand.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/13/2020, 11:38 AM   #21
Zionas
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Thanks. Among the LPS corals are there any on my list that are considered difficult?


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Unread 07/13/2020, 01:26 PM   #22
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Bubble is not necessary a hard to keep, but can extend stingers quite far and will destroy close neighbors. I don’t keep them
GSP I grow on the back glass cause it grows like grass and will attempt to cover everything.
Zooanthids on a small separate rock for the same reasons.
Mushrooms for the same, however, I stick with Florida Ricordea as they are the most colorful.
Cloves, never, take over the tank and hard to get them out.
Leathers, yup, I keep them but run carbon 24-7 in case they feel the need to release their turpins. But never had a problem.

You missed Acans (or more recently) called micromussa, great LPS, colorful and reasonable price. You can also think about Gorgonians.

Lighting is absolutely critical for all, more maybe for SPS, but still valid for LPS.
I always recommend getting lights for SPS and turning them down......usually after we do LPS....then we want to try SPS......

Lights do not have to break the bank.
I have just used the 150 dollar Visparspectra for 4 years now and they have grown everything including Acros, Nems and Clams.


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Unread 07/13/2020, 01:40 PM   #23
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Best rule for bubble is 6" space all around it. Including overhead: somewhere I can't reach I have a pic of bubble extruding one transparent tentacle thinner than angelhair pasta---ruler-straight upward amid a very strong current, bent on reaching the pocillopora just above it. They are about the only stony that wants bottom of the tank lighting, and that will reach out and bother anything it can possibly reach.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/17/2020, 09:59 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle99 View Post
IMO, acros are one of the most demanding of water chemistry and are not tolerant of changes in temp, chemistry and light.

I found them almost impossible in a mixed reef as their requirements are much different and it is hard (but not impossible) to provide both environments in a stable and consistent format.
This(the quote above), is also what ive found to be spot on over 2 yrs down the rd. now on my tank . A mixed reef tank is a handful like having really demanding & undemanding kids...... all in one small room is the best way i can explain it.
Especially if you want softies in also which i really don't recommend unless you have a huge tank on full auto everything, LPS is bad enough, i have mostly SPS with a few LPS and one GSP and its stable ATM but demanding, water params is an understatement, i can actually now see an issue just by looking at the acros then doing a PH test that instantly tells me ALK needs adjusting up again by a higher dosing as everything is growing & now demanding more and more minerals & especially ALK. Ive found dosing NO-POX to be a amazing way to keep nitrates at bay also in a mixed reef tank which has had an amaxing effect on all the SPS. Good luck & enjoy all the diversity of a mixed reff tank.


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Montipora Digitas, Cyphastrea, Blastos, different Leptoseris, Green Stylo, GSP, gorgonions, Ricordea mushrooms, psammocoras, Birdsnest coral, Clownfish, Watchman goby, Royal gamma.

Current Tank Info: Nano Reef tank
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Unread 07/17/2020, 10:24 AM   #25
Zionas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldreeferman View Post
This(the quote above), is also what ive found to be spot on over 2 yrs down the rd. now on my tank . A mixed reef tank is a handful like having really demanding & undemanding kids...... all in one small room is the best way i can explain it.
Especially if you want softies in also which i really don't recommend unless you have a huge tank on full auto everything, LPS is bad enough, i have mostly SPS with a few LPS and one GSP and its stable ATM but demanding, water params is an understatement, i can actually now see an issue just by looking at the acros then doing a PH test that instantly tells me ALK needs adjusting up again by a higher dosing as everything is growing & now demanding more and more minerals & especially ALK. Ive found dosing NO-POX to be a amazing way to keep nitrates at bay also in a mixed reef tank which has had an amaxing effect on all the SPS. Good luck & enjoy all the diversity of a mixed reff tank.


As a beginner, I am shying away from SPS corals! Gonna do a mixed reef of softies and LPS.


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