Baffle placement for 20g long

Jepprox · 07/22/2017, 11:41 PM

I am currently in the process of building a reef tank for my wife while my tank is being built. We have a 54g tank and I am custom building the stand. She plans to keep SPS and softies with a few fish. We picked up a used 20g long tank from the LFS and we will be using this as the sump. I plan to install baffles for the skimmer section, refugium, and return pump section. This is what I have sketched up so far. I was planning to separate the two baffles by one inch near the skimmer section. The second baffle would be placed 1.5" off the bottom of the tank and I would plan to use some filter media in this one inch section to reduce micro bubbles from the skimmer section. The last baffle separates the refugium and the return pump section. Is 7 inches tall enough? I am assuming the height of this baffle is to prevent any rubble spilling into the return section. I would value any input on the placement of the baffles. I can provide more details if needed.

-jeff

der_wille_zur_macht · 07/23/2017, 06:28 PM

That looks more or less fine. Water depth in the skimmer section will need to match your skimmer's requirements, if it's a picky skimmer. Some don't seem to care.

The 7" baffle on the right will basically set the depth in the center section. Again, choose that to meet the needs of whatever you're putting there. If you don't have a specific requirement, then somewhere around or just above half the height of the sump tank seems normal. You don't want the water too deep or you won't have enough extra capacity to handle the drain-down volume when the return pump is shut off.

I would consider swapping the placement of the two baffles between the skimmer and center section. If the skimmer is throwing off a lot of bubbles, they'll gather near the surface of the water. If your first baffle is an "over" baffle, you'll just be sucking all those bubbles along into the next section. If the first baffle is an "under" baffle, you'll be sucking water from the bottom of the compartment, where it's less likely there will be any bubbles. Plus, having the second baffle as an "over" baffle helps ensure that there is some agitation at the surface of the center section, which can keep it from getting a film on it if it's otherwise too still.

Jepprox · 07/23/2017, 10:12 PM

Thank you for the feedback! Makes total sense to have the first baffle be an under baffle. The skimmer is a Vertex Omega 130. It operates between 6.5" - 9.0". I'll probably make this first baffle 6.5" and have it raised up 1.5" from the bottom of the tank. I'll do my calculation of drain down from DT in the event of a power outage.

ssky · 07/24/2017, 02:30 PM

The first baffles (after skimmer) should be over under over (bubble trap). The baffle separating center section from return can be any but I would prefer over that make the center section flexible for anything from DSB to Chaeto etc.

Jay uk · 07/24/2017, 08:05 PM

That some very nice work

Jepprox · 07/25/2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssky

The first baffles (after skimmer) should be over under over (bubble trap). The baffle separating center section from return can be any but I would prefer over that make the center section flexible for anything from DSB to Chaeto etc.

OK I thought I had this right in my head the first time. Have the first baffle be an over baffle. I intend to place a filter type media between the baffles to trap large detritus. This filter should also assist in trapping bubbles before they flow up and over into the refugium. Please correct me if I am wrong.

-jeff

Lsufan · 07/25/2017, 09:19 PM

I have a omega 130 & I have it in about 7" of water. So I would keep the first baffle at 8" so u have some wiggle room & just put the skimmer on a stand to raise it up. U never know when u may change skimmers so it's nice to have some wiggle room so u don't have to redo the sump.I think the hieght of your baffles look good. I wouldn't make them any taller. U will need to have room in the sump for the drain back from the dt when u turn the return pump off.

The only change I would make is in the bubble trap. I like to go over-under-over. It will work how u have it but like willie mentioned, I find with the water going over the last baffle in the bubble trap that it keeps the water moving across the top of the sump. So u don't have any scum build up on top of the water. So basically just add another 8" tall baffle after what u have in the design & have it go to the bottom

Jepprox · 07/25/2017, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsufan

I have a omega 130 & I have it in about 7" of water. So I would keep the first baffle at 8" so u have some wiggle room & just put the skimmer on a stand to raise it up. U never know when u may change skimmers so it's nice to have some wiggle room so u don't have to redo the sump.I think the hieght of your baffles look good. I wouldn't make them any taller. U will need to have room in the sump for the drain back from the dt when u turn the return pump off.

The only change I would make is in the bubble trap. I like to go over-under-over. It will work how u have it but like willie mentioned, I find with the water going over the last baffle in the bubble trap that it keeps the water moving across the top of the sump. So u don't have any scum build up on top of the water. So basically just add another 8" tall baffle after what u have in the design & have it go to the bottom

Thank you for the input! Not opposed to adding the 3rd baffle for another over but how do you get a gun between the panels to seal properly? Just inject silicone from the one side? I thought you needed to lay a bead on both sides of the seam...

der_wille_zur_macht · 07/26/2017, 06:55 AM

Glue the panels one at a time. Put the first in with a bead on each side, then lay a bead for the second. Set the second against that bead and add a bead to the other side. Repeat for the third. You are always working from open space this way and the gun never has to go between the panels.

We are splitting hairs at this point but I stopped doing three baffle bubble traps years ago. It doesn't seem to make a difference and it takes up more room. Go ahead if you want it but IME it's not adding much functionality.

Regarding your plan to put filter material between the baffles - it sounds great but it may not work well in practice. If the media starts to get plugged up, you could end up with a serious flow restriction, causing the water level in the summer compartment to raise, which can throw the skimmer off.

If you want chemical media, carbon, gfo, etc then just put it in a bag and lay it on the floor of the sump, or use a reactor. If you want mechanical media, use a filter sock on the drain line.

Jepprox · 07/26/2017, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

Glue the panels one at a time. Put the first in with a bead on each side, then lay a bead for the second. Set the second against that bead and add a bead to the other side. Repeat for the third. You are always working from open space this way and the gun never has to go between the panels.

We are splitting hairs at this point but I stopped doing three baffle bubble traps years ago. It doesn't seem to make a difference and it takes up more room. Go ahead if you want it but IME it's not adding much functionality.

Regarding your plan to put filter material between the baffles - it sounds great but it may not work well in practice. If the media starts to get plugged up, you could end up with a serious flow restriction, causing the water level in the summer compartment to raise, which can throw the skimmer off.

If you want chemical media, carbon, gfo, etc then just put it in a bag and lay it on the floor of the sump, or use a reactor. If you want mechanical media, use a filter sock on the drain line.

Thank you for the input on gluing the panels! Got it! In terms of mechanical media, you have given me more things to think about. Thanks for this as well! Off to the glass shop to have some glass panels cut.

-jeff

Lsufan · 07/26/2017, 08:05 PM

I wouldn't worry about floss or a sponge between the baffles. A lot of what it takes out will actually benefit the fuge section. Plus the issues der willie mentioned. U can always add a filter sock if u end up having problems with detritus. I like to use filter socks but most people don't use any mechanical filtration at all.

A couple of the baffles u will only be able to silicone one side of. U may be able to get some towards the top of the other side. As long as they are siliconed in place good on one side u won't have any issues. U can also lay a bead then place the baffle like mentioned above, but that can get messy because u can't get between the baffles to wipe it. On a small sump like yours I usually just silicone one side.

One more thing I didn't see u mention. I would get them to cut the glass a 1/8" to 3/16" short so the baffles aren't tight when u put them in. That way u know they will fit but it also gives u a small gap to where silicone can get between the glass on the sump & the baffle

Jepprox · 07/27/2017, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsufan

I wouldn't worry about floss or a sponge between the baffles. A lot of what it takes out will actually benefit the fuge section. Plus the issues der willie mentioned. U can always add a filter sock if u end up having problems with detritus. I like to use filter socks but most people don't use any mechanical filtration at all.

A couple of the baffles u will only be able to silicone one side of. U may be able to get some towards the top of the other side. As long as they are siliconed in place good on one side u won't have any issues. U can also lay a bead then place the baffle like mentioned above, but that can get messy because u can't get between the baffles to wipe it. On a small sump like yours I usually just silicone one side.

One more thing I didn't see u mention. I would get them to cut the glass a 1/8" to 3/16" short so the baffles aren't tight when u put them in. That way u know they will fit but it also gives u a small gap to where silicone can get between the glass on the sump & the baffle

Very good input here too! Thank you! Yes I plan to have the glass cut short to allow the silicon to fill the gaps and hold the panels in place.

07/22/2017, 11:41 PM	#1
Jepprox Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 8	Baffle placement for 20g long I am currently in the process of building a reef tank for my wife while my tank is being built. We have a 54g tank and I am custom building the stand. She plans to keep SPS and softies with a few fish. We picked up a used 20g long tank from the LFS and we will be using this as the sump. I plan to install baffles for the skimmer section, refugium, and return pump section. This is what I have sketched up so far. I was planning to separate the two baffles by one inch near the skimmer section. The second baffle would be placed 1.5" off the bottom of the tank and I would plan to use some filter media in this one inch section to reduce micro bubbles from the skimmer section. The last baffle separates the refugium and the return pump section. Is 7 inches tall enough? I am assuming the height of this baffle is to prevent any rubble spilling into the return section. I would value any input on the placement of the baffles. I can provide more details if needed. -jeff

07/23/2017, 06:28 PM	#2
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	That looks more or less fine. Water depth in the skimmer section will need to match your skimmer's requirements, if it's a picky skimmer. Some don't seem to care. The 7" baffle on the right will basically set the depth in the center section. Again, choose that to meet the needs of whatever you're putting there. If you don't have a specific requirement, then somewhere around or just above half the height of the sump tank seems normal. You don't want the water too deep or you won't have enough extra capacity to handle the drain-down volume when the return pump is shut off. I would consider swapping the placement of the two baffles between the skimmer and center section. If the skimmer is throwing off a lot of bubbles, they'll gather near the surface of the water. If your first baffle is an "over" baffle, you'll just be sucking all those bubbles along into the next section. If the first baffle is an "under" baffle, you'll be sucking water from the bottom of the compartment, where it's less likely there will be any bubbles. Plus, having the second baffle as an "over" baffle helps ensure that there is some agitation at the surface of the center section, which can keep it from getting a film on it if it's otherwise too still. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

07/25/2017, 09:19 PM	#7
Lsufan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 1,410	I have a omega 130 & I have it in about 7" of water. So I would keep the first baffle at 8" so u have some wiggle room & just put the skimmer on a stand to raise it up. U never know when u may change skimmers so it's nice to have some wiggle room so u don't have to redo the sump.I think the hieght of your baffles look good. I wouldn't make them any taller. U will need to have room in the sump for the drain back from the dt when u turn the return pump off. The only change I would make is in the bubble trap. I like to go over-under-over. It will work how u have it but like willie mentioned, I find with the water going over the last baffle in the bubble trap that it keeps the water moving across the top of the sump. So u don't have any scum build up on top of the water. So basically just add another 8" tall baffle after what u have in the design & have it go to the bottom Last edited by Lsufan; 07/25/2017 at 09:30 PM.

07/26/2017, 06:55 AM	#9
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Glue the panels one at a time. Put the first in with a bead on each side, then lay a bead for the second. Set the second against that bead and add a bead to the other side. Repeat for the third. You are always working from open space this way and the gun never has to go between the panels. We are splitting hairs at this point but I stopped doing three baffle bubble traps years ago. It doesn't seem to make a difference and it takes up more room. Go ahead if you want it but IME it's not adding much functionality. Regarding your plan to put filter material between the baffles - it sounds great but it may not work well in practice. If the media starts to get plugged up, you could end up with a serious flow restriction, causing the water level in the summer compartment to raise, which can throw the skimmer off. If you want chemical media, carbon, gfo, etc then just put it in a bag and lay it on the floor of the sump, or use a reactor. If you want mechanical media, use a filter sock on the drain line. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

07/26/2017, 08:05 PM	#11
Lsufan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 1,410	I wouldn't worry about floss or a sponge between the baffles. A lot of what it takes out will actually benefit the fuge section. Plus the issues der willie mentioned. U can always add a filter sock if u end up having problems with detritus. I like to use filter socks but most people don't use any mechanical filtration at all. A couple of the baffles u will only be able to silicone one side of. U may be able to get some towards the top of the other side. As long as they are siliconed in place good on one side u won't have any issues. U can also lay a bead then place the baffle like mentioned above, but that can get messy because u can't get between the baffles to wipe it. On a small sump like yours I usually just silicone one side. One more thing I didn't see u mention. I would get them to cut the glass a 1/8" to 3/16" short so the baffles aren't tight when u put them in. That way u know they will fit but it also gives u a small gap to where silicone can get between the glass on the sump & the baffle Last edited by Lsufan; 07/26/2017 at 08:14 PM.

07/23/2017, 10:12 PM	#3
Jepprox Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 8	Thank you for the feedback! Makes total sense to have the first baffle be an under baffle. The skimmer is a Vertex Omega 130. It operates between 6.5" - 9.0". I'll probably make this first baffle 6.5" and have it raised up 1.5" from the bottom of the tank. I'll do my calculation of drain down from DT in the event of a power outage.

07/24/2017, 02:30 PM	#4
ssky Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 115	The first baffles (after skimmer) should be over under over (bubble trap). The baffle separating center section from return can be any but I would prefer over that make the center section flexible for anything from DSB to Chaeto etc.

07/24/2017, 08:05 PM	#5
Jay uk Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Uk London Posts: 133	That some very nice work