Unsure what's stressing my anemone

Weboh · 02/28/2019, 01:43 PM

My carpet anemone is severely stressed. It's deflated almost all the way and its mouth is open. I did a water test a few days ago, and the only thing I found wrong was slightly elevated nitrate (2). I did a 10% water change yesterday and reran the test today. Again, the only thing that's wrong is high nitrates. It's somehow higher, at 3. I don't see how that's possible as ammonia barely registered last time (0.1). Salinity is .026, alk 9, ammonia and nitrate 0, pH 8.3.

Since it's probably not water chemistry, what do you think the problem could be? Too much light? I do have my AI Prime turned up to 95%, but low light coral in the same depth seems to be doing well. Maybe current? I have a powerhead on the opposite side of the tank, but it's a fairly weak one and I made a point to make it not go directly toward the anemone.

I will post pictures of the anemone and my tank soon. Thanks.

murphreef · 02/28/2019, 02:06 PM

How old is the tank?

Weboh · 02/28/2019, 02:09 PM

2 years.

murphreef · 02/28/2019, 02:14 PM

Interesting I am no expert in carpet anemones I have only kept bubbles and they seem to thrive easily.

Obviously it's unhappy with something and it seems to be the nitrates or the lighting.

Orsamax · 02/28/2019, 04:27 PM

I hurt my RBTA with elevated temperatures (I don't mean like a 2-4 degree spike, I mean like a sustained 8-10 degree spike, I won't ever trust a cheap temp probe again) and it really put him through the ringer. So it could be temp, but that seems doubtful. Curious as to why you have any ammonia detectable at all (could be my testing ignorance, perhaps there is a test that I'm obviously not using that can even detect the minute amount that is given off before it is immediately consumed by the nitrogen cycle). So, if I'm just showing my ignorance, then disregard. Otherwise, it seems to me that at 2 years you shouldn't be seeing any ammonia. By the way, I also have AI primes (2, to be exact) and from what I've found on the internet, it can (key word CAN) be enough PAR for anemones depending on depth, etc.

Kevin Guthrie · 02/28/2019, 04:31 PM

I've had a haddoni for about 20 years. It occasionally deflates and almost disappears, hidden by the substrate. The clowns don't like it but it seems to be harmless. It doesn't last a whole day.

Uncle99 · 03/01/2019, 12:48 PM

Temporary shrinkage of a nem is quite normal.
The animal uses this process to expel waste.
It usually happens about 24-36 hours after feeding.
Just keep an eye on.
No nem likes flux in chemistry.

Weboh · 03/07/2019, 10:00 PM

It's definitely not a temporary thing; it's still stressed and not opening. I've ruled out lighting and current (turning down the lighting and turning off the facing powerhead didn't help). Nitrates may have played a part, as the anemone doesn't look so bad now that they're basically gone.

Could high phosphates be the issue? Phosphates appear close to 0 on my Red Sea test kit, but I recently read in Reef Hobbyist Magazine that phosphate can bind to calcium to make tricalcium diphosphate which is undetectable by kits but usable by algae. I do have an algae problem. According the article, using a Quantum brand test kit should reveal the problem.

Has anyone had a similar experience? I don't think my LFS sells Quantum products and I don't want to wait a week ordering online to help my anemone. Would something like Phos-X get rid of tricalcium diphosphate? Would it be bad to put it in before testing to verify that is the problem?

Thanks.

Dmorty217 · 03/08/2019, 09:00 AM

Did you treat the carpet with cipro when you got it? It could have a bacterial infection which will slowly kill the anemone. I never check my nitrates but I would imagine it is where yours is or higher even and my carpet is just fine. Phosphates might be some of the issue but it shouldn't cause your anem to shrink into nothing and cause a open mouth, unless the phosphates are off the charts

Weboh · 03/08/2019, 01:33 PM

No, I didn't know treating anemones was a thing. It looked healthy in my LFS though, and I saw it in there for a couple weeks. If it's not phosphate or bacterial, I'm at a loss as to what it could be.

Dmorty217 · 03/09/2019, 11:20 AM

I assume it isn’t eating either?

Weboh · 03/09/2019, 04:24 PM

I don't want to try to feed it while it's already stressed. I've heard feeding is also stressful to an anemone.

I also have a hammer coral that hasn't been fully open for a long time. I've tried doing things to help it too, but it least it's not dying. It's like there's something wrong with my water, but the water always tests fine.

Weboh · 03/18/2019, 09:43 PM

Update: The anemone is still stressed by something and I'm still unable to determine a cause. Right now, it's so stressed it won't even grab on a rock anywhere. For a couple days now, it's been loose in the water. I tried manually placing it somewhere and turning off the current only to find it upside down in the substrate. I've tried placing it in different places, even the place it thrived for a few weeks, but no luck. I've had to turn off my powerheads the past couple days to try to keep the anemone in place. But that's obviously not a long-term solution.

Any ideas? Thoughts? Anyone else think I should try to feed it while it's stressed? Do big carpets just need a lot of food? Thanks for any advice.

Dmorty217 · 03/19/2019, 07:47 AM

My carpet constantly eats out of the water column (mysis and plankton) and I also feed it a few pieces of krill once a week. I'm not sure at this point the anem will eat since it isn't attached to anything but it is worth a try. Being that your hammer isn't fully inflated would lead me to believe that something else is going on in the tank. Have you checked for stray voltage?

Dmorty217 · 03/19/2019, 07:49 AM

Also you may want to get a Triton water test done to see exactly whats in your water.

Weboh · 03/19/2019, 07:21 PM

Well, I fed the anemone Reef Chile and he seemed to gobble it up. We'll see if that did it. I guess I'll keep feeding him daily.

D-Nak · 03/22/2019, 10:39 AM

Carpets rarely deflate, and when they do it's only for a short period of time and then they quickly inflate to full size. As previously noted, it sounds like yours is infected and needs to be treated with Cipro ASAP or it will die.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2271385

This is assuming that you recently acquired it, and previous to that it was at a LFS or other retailer (versus another hobbyist). Carpets that are properly acclimated and healthy for more than a few months typically don't get infections on their own.

Photos of the nem will help us to determine the species and best course of action.

Weboh · 03/23/2019, 04:34 PM

It was recently acquired from an LFS. I attached some photos.

I read that post. It looks like if the anemone has an infection, human grade antibiotics are recommended. I have a API aquarium antibiotic. Could that possibly help? I also don't want to deal with a hospital tank and stressing about keeping things stable in it. Would it be bad to dose the whole tank?

Yin_Yang247 · 03/23/2019, 06:20 PM

Do a 20% water change to help resupply everything it needs to recover and be healthy

Dmorty217 · 03/25/2019, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weboh

It was recently acquired from an LFS. I attached some photos.

I read that post. It looks like if the anemone has an infection, human grade antibiotics are recommended. I have a API aquarium antibiotic. Could that possibly help? I also don't want to deal with a hospital tank and stressing about keeping things stable in it. Would it be bad to dose the whole tank?

Needs to be treated with Cipro asap. Ciproflaxin (not correct spelling) will treat the problem. Do not dose your main tank, get a 10g tank and put a heater and air stone in the tank. Treat for 3 days and then do a water change and you might have to retreat depending on what the carpet looks like

D-Nak · 03/25/2019, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

Needs to be treated with Cipro asap. Ciproflaxin (not correct spelling) will treat the problem. Do not dose your main tank, get a 10g tank and put a heater and air stone in the tank. Treat for 3 days and then do a water change and you might have to retreat depending on what the carpet looks like

This. But treat for 5-7 days. 3 days is insufficient. As with most antibiotics, a full course is needed even if the ailment appears to have gone away.

D-Nak · 03/25/2019, 09:58 AM

The reason for not treating the entire tank:

1. The antibiotics may kill beneficial bacteria along with the harmful bacteria. This could throw the entire tank out of whack, which could lead to algae blooms and other unpredictable results.

2. Antibiotics need to be administered based on water volume. Using a tank larger than 10 gallons is simply wasteful. 100% water changes need to be performed every night.

Dmorty217 · 03/25/2019, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Nak

This. But treat for 5-7 days. 3 days is insufficient. As with most antibiotics, a full course is needed even if the ailment appears to have gone away.

Thanks for correcting me, for some reason I was thinking treat like praziquantel.

OrionN · 03/25/2019, 09:26 PM

Your tank does not look like it is in top shape with a lot of nuisance growth either cyanobacterial or algae. Your anemone is sick. Treating it quickly is needed if you expect it to survive. The success rate is much better if you treat it quickly, the longer you wait, the lower the recover rate.
Good luck.

Weboh · 03/27/2019, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

Needs to be treated with Cipro asap. Ciproflaxin (not correct spelling) will treat the problem. Do not dose your main tank, get a 10g tank and put a heater and air stone in the tank. Treat for 3 days and then do a water change and you might have to retreat depending on what the carpet looks like

I looked into getting Ciprofloxacin, but it appears I need a prescription for it. How did you get any? "Uhhh... I have a pet that needs it." "Well then, your veterinarian can prescribe it for you!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

Your tank does not look like it is in top shape with a lot of nuisance growth either cyanobacterial or algae. Your anemone is sick. Treating it quickly is needed if you expect it to survive. The success rate is much better if you treat it quickly, the longer you wait, the lower the recover rate.
Good luck.

Well, whenever I clean the glass, the strands of algae that come off float in the water, and I didn't want the anemone to get irritated by that, so I put off cleaning the glass for a long time. I also had red and green lighting turned up pretty high to make the lighting look more natural. I found out that algae likes red and green light though, and I did have a big problem with algae, so I turned it down.

I don't think it's a chemistry problem causing the alage outbreak, because again, all my tests tell me my water is fine.

The past few nights, the anemone has looked almost totally better (more inflated, mouth closed almost all the way. Still not attaching itself though). I think that means the light is too bright after all, so I'm going to try turning it down some more.

02/28/2019, 01:43 PM	#1
Weboh Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 217	Unsure what's stressing my anemone My carpet anemone is severely stressed. It's deflated almost all the way and its mouth is open. I did a water test a few days ago, and the only thing I found wrong was slightly elevated nitrate (2). I did a 10% water change yesterday and reran the test today. Again, the only thing that's wrong is high nitrates. It's somehow higher, at 3. I don't see how that's possible as ammonia barely registered last time (0.1). Salinity is .026, alk 9, ammonia and nitrate 0, pH 8.3. Since it's probably not water chemistry, what do you think the problem could be? Too much light? I do have my AI Prime turned up to 95%, but low light coral in the same depth seems to be doing well. Maybe current? I have a powerhead on the opposite side of the tank, but it's a fairly weak one and I made a point to make it not go directly toward the anemone. I will post pictures of the anemone and my tank soon. Thanks.

02/28/2019, 02:06 PM	#2
murphreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: simi valley Posts: 3,208	How old is the tank? __________________ Justin Current Tank Info: 25G cube (finally back in the hobby in a small way)

02/28/2019, 02:14 PM	#4
murphreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: simi valley Posts: 3,208	Interesting I am no expert in carpet anemones I have only kept bubbles and they seem to thrive easily. Obviously it's unhappy with something and it seems to be the nitrates or the lighting. __________________ Justin Current Tank Info: 25G cube (finally back in the hobby in a small way)

03/08/2019, 09:00 AM	#9
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	Did you treat the carpet with cipro when you got it? It could have a bacterial infection which will slowly kill the anemone. I never check my nitrates but I would imagine it is where yours is or higher even and my carpet is just fine. Phosphates might be some of the issue but it shouldn't cause your anem to shrink into nothing and cause a open mouth, unless the phosphates are off the charts __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

03/09/2019, 11:20 AM	#11
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	I assume it isn’t eating either? __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

02/28/2019, 02:09 PM	#3
Weboh Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 217	2 years.

02/28/2019, 04:27 PM	#5
Orsamax Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 60	I hurt my RBTA with elevated temperatures (I don't mean like a 2-4 degree spike, I mean like a sustained 8-10 degree spike, I won't ever trust a cheap temp probe again) and it really put him through the ringer. So it could be temp, but that seems doubtful. Curious as to why you have any ammonia detectable at all (could be my testing ignorance, perhaps there is a test that I'm obviously not using that can even detect the minute amount that is given off before it is immediately consumed by the nitrogen cycle). So, if I'm just showing my ignorance, then disregard. Otherwise, it seems to me that at 2 years you shouldn't be seeing any ammonia. By the way, I also have AI primes (2, to be exact) and from what I've found on the internet, it can (key word CAN) be enough PAR for anemones depending on depth, etc.

02/28/2019, 04:31 PM	#6
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	I've had a haddoni for about 20 years. It occasionally deflates and almost disappears, hidden by the substrate. The clowns don't like it but it seems to be harmless. It doesn't last a whole day.

03/01/2019, 12:48 PM	#7
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Temporary shrinkage of a nem is quite normal. The animal uses this process to expel waste. It usually happens about 24-36 hours after feeding. Just keep an eye on. No nem likes flux in chemistry.

03/07/2019, 10:00 PM	#8
Weboh Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 217	It's definitely not a temporary thing; it's still stressed and not opening. I've ruled out lighting and current (turning down the lighting and turning off the facing powerhead didn't help). Nitrates may have played a part, as the anemone doesn't look so bad now that they're basically gone. Could high phosphates be the issue? Phosphates appear close to 0 on my Red Sea test kit, but I recently read in Reef Hobbyist Magazine that phosphate can bind to calcium to make tricalcium diphosphate which is undetectable by kits but usable by algae. I do have an algae problem. According the article, using a Quantum brand test kit should reveal the problem. Has anyone had a similar experience? I don't think my LFS sells Quantum products and I don't want to wait a week ordering online to help my anemone. Would something like Phos-X get rid of tricalcium diphosphate? Would it be bad to put it in before testing to verify that is the problem? Thanks.

03/08/2019, 01:33 PM	#10
Weboh Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 217	No, I didn't know treating anemones was a thing. It looked healthy in my LFS though, and I saw it in there for a couple weeks. If it's not phosphate or bacterial, I'm at a loss as to what it could be.

03/09/2019, 04:24 PM	#12
Weboh Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 217	I don't want to try to feed it while it's already stressed. I've heard feeding is also stressful to an anemone. I also have a hammer coral that hasn't been fully open for a long time. I've tried doing things to help it too, but it least it's not dying. It's like there's something wrong with my water, but the water always tests fine.

03/18/2019, 09:43 PM	#13
Weboh Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 217	Update: The anemone is still stressed by something and I'm still unable to determine a cause. Right now, it's so stressed it won't even grab on a rock anywhere. For a couple days now, it's been loose in the water. I tried manually placing it somewhere and turning off the current only to find it upside down in the substrate. I've tried placing it in different places, even the place it thrived for a few weeks, but no luck. I've had to turn off my powerheads the past couple days to try to keep the anemone in place. But that's obviously not a long-term solution. Any ideas? Thoughts? Anyone else think I should try to feed it while it's stressed? Do big carpets just need a lot of food? Thanks for any advice.

03/19/2019, 07:47 AM	#14
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	My carpet constantly eats out of the water column (mysis and plankton) and I also feed it a few pieces of krill once a week. I'm not sure at this point the anem will eat since it isn't attached to anything but it is worth a try. Being that your hammer isn't fully inflated would lead me to believe that something else is going on in the tank. Have you checked for stray voltage? __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

03/19/2019, 07:49 AM	#15
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	Also you may want to get a Triton water test done to see exactly whats in your water. __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

03/19/2019, 07:21 PM	#16
Weboh Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 217	Well, I fed the anemone Reef Chile and he seemed to gobble it up. We'll see if that did it. I guess I'll keep feeding him daily.

03/22/2019, 10:39 AM	#17
D-Nak Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 5,797	Carpets rarely deflate, and when they do it's only for a short period of time and then they quickly inflate to full size. As previously noted, it sounds like yours is infected and needs to be treated with Cipro ASAP or it will die. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2271385 This is assuming that you recently acquired it, and previous to that it was at a LFS or other retailer (versus another hobbyist). Carpets that are properly acclimated and healthy for more than a few months typically don't get infections on their own. Photos of the nem will help us to determine the species and best course of action. __________________ Tank info: 120 gallon 48x30x20 high DT. Clownfish breeding rack in full swing: C-Quest Onyx, Bali Aquarich P1 Picasso + Rod's Onyx, wild percula + Rod's Onyx.

03/23/2019, 06:20 PM	#19
Yin_Yang247 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Earth Posts: 80	Do a 20% water change to help resupply everything it needs to recover and be healthy

03/25/2019, 09:58 AM	#22
D-Nak Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 5,797	The reason for not treating the entire tank: 1. The antibiotics may kill beneficial bacteria along with the harmful bacteria. This could throw the entire tank out of whack, which could lead to algae blooms and other unpredictable results. 2. Antibiotics need to be administered based on water volume. Using a tank larger than 10 gallons is simply wasteful. 100% water changes need to be performed every night. __________________ Tank info: 120 gallon 48x30x20 high DT. Clownfish breeding rack in full swing: C-Quest Onyx, Bali Aquarich P1 Picasso + Rod's Onyx, wild percula + Rod's Onyx.

03/25/2019, 09:26 PM	#24
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	Your tank does not look like it is in top shape with a lot of nuisance growth either cyanobacterial or algae. Your anemone is sick. Treating it quickly is needed if you expect it to survive. The success rate is much better if you treat it quickly, the longer you wait, the lower the recover rate. Good luck. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip