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Old 12/07/2017, 08:07 AM   #2926
vlangel
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It makes me wonder, as sensitive as seahorses are, how are they not extinct? Given all the crap that ends up in the sea, you'd think they'd be gone, or at least endangered.

Thanks, vlangel. It would make sense to me, that after all the hard work you've done for them, that you'd be ready to kick back and do something easier. I'm sure it's a labor of love.

"…I really liked how your tank progressed before the fish got ich." Me too! Kind of a setback… I even remember, before everything went to hell, I was thinking, "This is really great! Now what's going to happen to screw this all up?"

I guess what's important, is how we react to a tank disaster. After enduring a hefty dose of shame, I am now proud of how I am getting back on track. In fact, I think it's time to stop saying things like " after killing so many fish", or "after my hypo salinity ordeal". It's time to put that behind me.

My tank's doing great and the future looks bright!
In regards to seahorses being endangered, I hear and read that some species actually are endangered in some areas. Its loss of habitat that is the big culprit. What they have in their favor is they are extremely prolific. My mated pair were pumping out 200+ fry every 19 days, LOL.

Although my tank is only 56 gallons, it a tall tank and I am a fan of deep sandbeds. I like how your tank has different depths and I have often contemplated doing that as well. I might actually try to grow live mangroves in the very deep side. I also like sargassum and that might be a.better choice for me given my tank's small size. It will still give me the vertical lines if I can get it to grow. Who knows, maybe I will go for a southern FL biotope too since your tank is so inspirational. That is all years down the road since ponies are my passion for now.

It is reefers who respond the way you did that further and perpetuate the hobby. Too many folks when faced with setbacks tear down their system and go in a different direction or some just quit altogether. I applaud you for persevering. Its always sad to lose livestock but I won't even tell you how many fish I have lost in my 'many' years in aquaria. My husband and kids used to say that my FW tank was the nazi death camp for fish and when I walked into the lfs the fish trembled with fear, ha ha! Fortunately that has not been my experience for quite some time now. I have kept animals for a decade or more so I am not advocating being reckless with livestock. Its just the reality of our hobby that animals can perish if something goes wrong and there is always the possibility no matter how conscientious we are, that something can go wrong. The fact that you were honest and real about your tank helps the rest of us know what to avoid. It also encourages us that the tank can and will come back if we just hang in there and give it a chance. I look forward to what your tank will become in a year from now.😊


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Old 12/07/2017, 08:24 AM   #2927
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I feel the same way with my tank. I see the old pics and vids of them and it still makes me sick to think about it. I guess I need to forget about it and move on. I've learned...


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Old 12/07/2017, 08:50 AM   #2928
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On the lurking post, I hope I didn't make anyone feel guilty. I just want to encourage anyone who's reading to comment or ask questions. I'm like a spoiled child that needs attention!
Ah don't feel guilty. Sometimes the encouragement prompts me to think more about what is going on with your tank and then I get an idea of what to post, other than what is in my head during my pre-caffeine ingesting period (like, "emmm, that's cool"...)

I sometimes feel that nobody is even lurking or interested in my tank at times when I'm the only one posting time and again. Like, if I stopped, the thread would drift away forever and nobody would care. But, I keep posting anyway. There are a few folks that chime in now and then and make it all worthwhile. I like to go back and re-read what happened now and then from the beginning, reminding me of what worked and what didn't.

So, you gonna get that dragonet as your holiday gift to yourself


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Old 12/07/2017, 09:36 AM   #2929
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Following along. Would turtle grass be good in a 20gxh (24 inches tall?) With 8-12 inch sand bed that would leave 12-16" for seahorses and growth of seagrass.

Thanks,

Jason

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Old 12/07/2017, 10:00 AM   #2930
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Welcome redlobstor! That should work. You could go as shallow as seven inches on the sandbed, to give you a little more room above. When I had turtle grass, most of it was in the twelve inch range.

I'm stoked to hear you're doing seagrass. Consider starting with shoal grass, as it is a pioneering plant that helps prepare the substrate for turtle grass, which is a climax species. It worked just that way in my tank, with the turtle grass gradually taking over.


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Old 12/07/2017, 11:27 AM   #2931
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Thanks vlangel, for the kind words! (and the expert advice!)

Having just read a bunch, I seem to remember that they are very prolific, but less than 1% of the babies survive, which would seem to support your statement that in some locations, there ARE endangered. I'm still in awe of the efforts you have to take to keep them healthy. I can see how they are your passion!

I'm thrilled that my tank inspires you. I can't think of a better compliment! Plenty of room for you, down here in the weirdo, planted tank basement, whenever you're ready! I too have considered sargassum, but I haven't pulled the trigger. It's probably because I have some plants I want to get to progress further, before adding something new. Like terrestrial gardening, the work is never done!


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 12/07/2017, 11:49 AM   #2932
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Any experience with eel grass or dwarf eel grass?


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Old 12/07/2017, 12:03 PM   #2933
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Right on, Kevin! We learn from the past, for a better future.

I know what you mean, wondering what would happen if you stopped posting. Your thread being in the popular reef discussion forum has positives and negatives. While you were out sick for fives days, I found your thread on page 4! On the positive side, you're exposing your unique tanks to folks who never venture down to the plant section. With mine being in the less popular plant forum, not to mention my non-stop posting, I seem to stay on page one. I don't even think there is a page 2 these days…

So lurkers take note! We'd love to hear from you! Just a quick comment or question is fine. I promise it'll be fun!


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 12/07/2017, 12:32 PM   #2934
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No, Pandagobyguy, I have no experience with either of those grasses. My focus was on manatee grass, and then I learned a bit about shoal and turtle grass, sine I added them as well.

Does it grow in Florida or the Caribbean? If not, that's probably why I overlooked it. Now that you've brought it up, I'd love to hear more about it. Do tell!


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 12/07/2017, 01:36 PM   #2935
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I almost forgot. Kevin that Lancer Dragonet sounds and looks like a real possibility!


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Old 12/07/2017, 03:21 PM   #2936
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Welcome redlobstor! That should work. You could go as shallow as seven inches on the sandbed, to give you a little more room above. When I had turtle grass, most of it was in the twelve inch range.

I'm stoked to hear you're doing seagrass. Consider starting with shoal grass, as it is a pioneering plant that helps prepare the substrate for turtle grass, which is a climax species. It worked just that way in my tank, with the turtle grass gradually taking over.
Thanks! I was planning on shoal grass in a 40G but I could mix in with the turtle grass as well. Should I slope the sand from front to back since shoal grass doesn't require as deep a sand bed.

When you say start with shoal grass do you mean plant it first and leave for a little while before adding the turtle or start with both at same time. If starting shoal first then how long should I wait before adding turtle grass.

Jason

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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 12/07/2017, 03:59 PM   #2937
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When I started posting about my tank, I honestly couldn't decide what forum to post it in. I guess because it's an oyster "reef" biotope, I figured it fit there, LOL.

Quote:
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I almost forgot. Kevin that Lancer Dragonet sounds and looks like a real possibility!
Great! It will be refreshing to see a dragonet that few others post about! Good luck with your attempts at getting one!


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Old 12/07/2017, 04:25 PM   #2938
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Thanks vlangel, for the kind words! (and the expert advice!)

Having just read a bunch, I seem to remember that they are very prolific, but less than 1% of the babies survive, which would seem to support your statement that in some locations, there ARE endangered. I'm still in awe of the efforts you have to take to keep them healthy. I can see how they are your passion!

I'm thrilled that my tank inspires you. I can't think of a better compliment! Plenty of room for you, down here in the weirdo, planted tank basement, whenever you're ready! I too have considered sargassum, but I haven't pulled the trigger. It's probably because I have some plants I want to get to progress further, before adding something new. Like terrestrial gardening, the work is never done!
Yep, in nature not many survive. If captive bred their odds are much better, as high as 90% by a seahorse farm. I only raised them once but even I managed to raise 15 out of 22. They were H erectus which is the easiest pony to raise.


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Old 12/07/2017, 04:58 PM   #2939
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It's totally up to you on both the sloping thing and order of introduction, redlobstor. But of course I'll give you my opinion…

The sloping of substrate suggests you would put the shoal grass in front. I think it would be better to spread it throughout the sand bed, thus preparing all of it for the turtle grass. No need to go shallower on the sandbed, unless you're trying to save money on sand. It's probably ideal to add the shoal grass first, as in nature, but I added all my grasses at the same time. I have no idea how long you would wait to plant turtle grass. As you may be finding out, there's not a lot of info available on seagrass aquariums. Have you checked out the "Old Helpful Posts" at the top of this forum? It's a goldmine!

Great questions. With that kind of thinking, I have no doubt you will succeed!


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 12/07/2017, 05:06 PM   #2940
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Yes, Kevin, I can see how it must have been a quandary deciding which forum. I think you made the right choice.

Those lancer dragonets are cool! Hopefully I can get a male/female pair. In the meantime, I've got sea hares and aiptasias to kill and macros to resurrect!


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 12/08/2017, 09:45 AM   #2941
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BTW, how are the barnacle blennies doing? Are they getting along OK with the sailfin blenny?


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Old 12/08/2017, 10:04 AM   #2942
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It's totally up to you on both the sloping thing and order of introduction, redlobstor. But of course I'll give you my opinion…

The sloping of substrate suggests you would put the shoal grass in front. I think it would be better to spread it throughout the sand bed, thus preparing all of it for the turtle grass. No need to go shallower on the sandbed, unless you're trying to save money on sand. It's probably ideal to add the shoal grass first, as in nature, but I added all my grasses at the same time. I have no idea how long you would wait to plant turtle grass. As you may be finding out, there's not a lot of info available on seagrass aquariums. Have you checked out the "Old Helpful Posts" at the top of this forum? It's a goldmine!

Great questions. With that kind of thinking, I have no doubt you will succeed!
Thanks Michael for your encouragement and support.

The sloping was to put shorter species in front and taller species in back.

I guess I could plant all at once. May actually be better this way because if I wait its possible to damage the root structure of the seagrass already planted when trying to dig a hole for the new plant.

Thanks for your help

Jason

Ps. I haven't read all the thread because its so long but could you post a current photo of your seagrass tank.

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Old 12/08/2017, 10:15 AM   #2943
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The barnacle blennies are all doing well, and so are are the sailfins. Leroy Brown is the boss and doesn't let anyone near the barnacles. He and the other male get into flagging contests, which is kind of fun. Neither of them have shown any interest in the female, which is a little odd. Leroy even runs her off when she gets too close. Maybe their spawning is seasonal.

I really love the barnacle blennies. Great looks and great personalities. I'd trade the sailfins for more of them in a heartbeat. But I guess the diversity is good.


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Old 12/08/2017, 10:42 AM   #2944
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Sounds like a plan, Jason.

Keep in mind seagrasses are quite slow to get established. That's probably why they aren't very popular in the hobby. Macros are much faster. In nature, seagrasses outcompete macros in pristine, low nutrient conditions. In aquariums they respond well to dosing and higher nutrients, but they have more competition if you also have macros. I added macros to help keep micro algae at bay, but often wondered how the grasses would have done without the competition. It's kind of a catch-22 situation.

I look forward to seeing what choices you make and how it works out. I think I remember reading somewhere that you have several tanks to play with. That should work in your favor, to have other tanks to distract you, while you wait for the grasses.

I'll post some pics this weekend, after I have a chance to tidy up a little. The shoal grass has recently multiplied and now they are getting taller. I hope to get manatee grass again, as it is my favorite. At their peak, I had several blades that reached the surface in my 30 inch high tank.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 12/08/2017, 11:14 AM   #2945
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No, Pandagobyguy, I have no experience with either of those grasses. My focus was on manatee grass, and then I learned a bit about shoal and turtle grass, sine I added them as well.

Does it grow in Florida or the Caribbean? If not, that's probably why I overlooked it. Now that you've brought it up, I'd love to hear more about it. Do tell!
I'm not super knowledgeable about them. I have been interested in trying an eelgrass biotope with dwarf sea horses but after some research it seems the choice is really substrate or sea horse. I love the idea of biotopes and your tank is awesome and inspiring, makes me want to abandon my dwarf sea horse and just do a brackish dwarf eel grass biotope.

I was under the impression that the dwarf sea horse originates from the Caribbean but after looking at eel grass range it seems i was mistaken. Keep up the awesome tank! (Ill be lurking lol)


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Old 12/08/2017, 12:12 PM   #2946
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Thanks for the compliments, pandagobyguy! An eel grass biotope sounds very cool! I'm pretty sure Florida collector KP Aquatics sells dwarf sea horses, so I think there are caribbean species.

Thanks for dropping by, ya lurker!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 12/08/2017, 01:11 PM   #2947
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Thanks for the compliments, pandagobyguy! An eel grass biotope sounds very cool! I'm pretty sure Florida collector KP Aquatics sells dwarf sea horses, so I think there are caribbean species.

Thanks for dropping by, ya lurker!
Pandagobyguy,
Search Hippocampus zosterae on fishbase.org. The dwarf seahorse is found throughout the Caribbean and under the biology section you can see where they are found with eel grass and other seagrass.

I always search fishbase for size, locale, and the biology section usually has some tidbits about habitat.

Jason

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Old 12/08/2017, 01:16 PM   #2948
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Pandagobyguy,
Search Hippocampus zosterae on fishbase.org. The dwarf seahorse is found throughout the Caribbean and under the biology section you can see where they are found with eel grass and other seagrass.

I always search fishbase for size, locale, and the biology section usually has some tidbits about habitat.

Jason

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Woah thanks both of y'all for the info!

Looks as if I've got some reading to do!


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Old 12/08/2017, 01:20 PM   #2949
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I'm not super knowledgeable about them. I have been interested in trying an eelgrass biotope with dwarf sea horses but after some research it seems the choice is really substrate or sea horse. I love the idea of biotopes and your tank is awesome and inspiring, makes me want to abandon my dwarf sea horse and just do a brackish dwarf eel grass biotope.

I was under the impression that the dwarf sea horse originates from the Caribbean but after looking at eel grass range it seems i was mistaken. Keep up the awesome tank! (Ill be lurking lol)
I think an Eel grass biotope would be perfect for dwarf seahorses. I haven't researched but I would imagine that the scientific species name is what it is because it was discovered amongst eel grass beds.

Thanks Pandagobyguy you have given me an idea of another tank that involves eel grass.

Jason

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Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon mixed reef. Fish are a powder blue tang and a lightning filefish. Smokeless with some macros growing in the sump.
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Old 12/08/2017, 01:29 PM   #2950
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I think an Eel grass biotope would be perfect for dwarf seahorses. I haven't researched but I would imagine that the scientific species name is what it is because it was discovered amongst eel grass beds.

Thanks Pandagobyguy you have given me an idea of another tank that involves eel grass.

Jason

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This was my thought as well. I posted about it in the seahorse forum. I was told having a substrate for the eel grass is a no go due to infections on the DSH being more likely. I still wonder if that is not just the advice of over concerned fish keepers... i mean it is there actual habitat... but i certainly don't know anything lol


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