Reef Central Online Community
Marine Depot

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 03/31/2017, 04:46 PM   #1
Devaji108
Registered Member
 
Devaji108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 3,561
Classic vs 2016 Neptune apex.

Guys i was hoping to get some feedback I am thinking about pulling the trigger on an apex!
I just can't make up my mind on between the "classic" and 2016 model.

I was gonna go with a classic as it cheaper was thinking of buying used but most need new probes by the time I get a few probes and Pm1/pm2 I might as well just gob with the new model.

My thought was to go with classic so I could get the FMK and ATk
thoughts?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


Devaji108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/2017, 05:33 PM   #2
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,836
The new apex had built in wifi and double junction probes. Plus the built in power supply also saves a socket for the pmup or other 24v accessories. You'll also love the ability to monitor socket power draw and program logic into if socket is than a certain watt (or return pump fail) to notify you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/2017, 07:50 PM   #3
Devaji108
Registered Member
 
Devaji108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 3,561
those are nice features indeed. I dont test for PH and use refractometer only when doing h2o changes. ( I do understand the logic behind monitoring it to tell you a problem is happening tho)
and I might as well.
at this point it between a new 2016 apex and a used classic...I am having one heck of a time deciding. :/


Devaji108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/2017, 07:58 PM   #4
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,836
I've upgraded from classic to new one just for the socket power monitoring alone. Had my return pump stop running, and my heater got left on thinking it's still running. Almost burnt the over flow. Now I have power socket monitoring and added float in overflow for double redundancy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/2017, 09:28 PM   #5
Devaji108
Registered Member
 
Devaji108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 3,561
funny know I am leaning towards the new model just yesterday I almost bout the classic.
that that is a very nice feature.


Devaji108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/2017, 10:05 PM   #6
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 15,447
If I were in the market I'd definately go for the new one. At some point new modules are going to appear that aren't backwards compatible with the older units.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 265 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/2017, 10:50 PM   #7
Devaji108
Registered Member
 
Devaji108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 3,561
ugg I want one just was hoping not to drop the $$ oh well gotta play to play i guess. if I am gonna do it might as well DO IT...


Devaji108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/2017, 11:07 PM   #8
ReefCowboy
Registered Member
 
ReefCowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,583
I have the new Apex. It is working teally well. Buying an outdated version doesnt make sense considering all new stuff coming out.

Soon Alk monitor and hopefully others will be here as well. They might not work with the older version(classic)


__________________
Current build: Rimless Starphire 150 gal Sps system/Custom Sump/Vectra L1/2x MP40qd's+ MP60qd+Gyre XF250/New Apex/5x Radion G4 Pro
ReefCowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/01/2017, 09:33 AM   #9
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 15,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaji108 View Post
ugg I want one just was hoping not to drop the $$ oh well gotta play to play i guess. if I am gonna do it might as well DO IT...
The key question to ask is whether there are processing power limitations in the classic versus the new model. For example, there are switch naming limitations in the Classic. Maybe it's fixable with firmware, maybe it's not. Do similar limitations exist with the new model? I'd imagine that future modules may require more processing power than the classic has and thus not be backwards compatible. Just speculating, of course, because Neptune has been very good at ensuring backwards compatibility so far. Plus isn't firmware updated automatically with the new one?


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 265 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/01/2017, 10:05 AM   #10
vhuang168
Registered Member
 
vhuang168's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,045
I have 3 classics currently running. I just bought a 2016 and will be switching over soon. If you can afford it, future proof your purchase by buying the 2016. A controller is not something you change out every few years so who knows if something will come out that is beyond the capacity of the classic forcing you to buy the 2016 anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


__________________
Vincent

40g custom AIO --> DSA190Pro
vhuang168 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/01/2017, 10:18 AM   #11
luvreefs23
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 800
I have 3 2016 apex units running on 3 tanks. I'd have 4 if the 4th tank wasn't such a simple low tech reef but if this tank is your pride and joy I'd buy the 2016 model


luvreefs23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08/12/2017, 10:48 PM   #12
tygger
Registered Member
 
tygger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,635
On the 2016, you can tell when a return pump, powerhead, etc. fails because the controller has power monitoring.

How would you know if a return pump or skimmer stopped working on the classic?


__________________
15g Nano
72g reef + 29g sump/fuge
tygger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/12/2017, 11:49 PM   #13
vhuang168
Registered Member
 
vhuang168's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by tygger View Post
On the 2016, you can tell when a return pump, powerhead, etc. fails because the controller has power monitoring.

How would you know if a return pump or skimmer stopped working on the classic?

FMM with flow sensor on the return. Or a float sensor in the return chamber testing for a high water level.

Skimmer is not so critical.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


__________________
Vincent

40g custom AIO --> DSA190Pro
vhuang168 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/15/2017, 07:55 PM   #14
ruiny
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 529
I was the same as you. Was on the fence for over a year. I just bought the new version last week. Using the rationale as people stated. Why by something that is already outdated. If you're the type of person, like me, who is late to the controller party you likely won't be looking to upgrade for a long time. If ever. So get the one that will have the most support and the most upgrades fir the longest time.


__________________
Go Sens Go

Current Tank Info: 93 mixed reef
ruiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/16/2017, 01:25 PM   #15
unze
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 423
I really can't see the value of changing to the new apex if you have the classic.
Nice to have power readings for each socket, but i have this on my GHL and never look at it, find the overall power reading to be fine.
I believe the double junction probes can be used on the classic. so the new apex 2016 is no real big upgrade.


unze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/16/2017, 01:34 PM   #16
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by unze View Post
I really can't see the value of changing to the new apex if you have the classic.

Nice to have power readings for each socket, but i have this on my GHL and never look at it, find the overall power reading to be fine.

I believe the double junction probes can be used on the classic. so the new apex 2016 is no real big upgrade.


Not true you can't program logic when a socket is on, but not drawing any current. For instance when a pump fails you can program it to shut other things down as well like skimmers so it don't over flow.


scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08/16/2017, 01:37 PM   #17
ggenung
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 28
I have a classic I purchased before the newest one. The first thing I thought about the new one is how ugly it was. But I still say, "Buy the newest one".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


ggenung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/16/2017, 01:49 PM   #18
unze
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 423
Quote:
Not true you can't program logic when a socket is on, but not drawing any current. For instance when a pump fails you can program it to shut other things down as well like skimmers so it don't over flow.
That's great but I was referring to see each socket power reading on the ghl. versus seeing it all combined into one power reading like the Apex classic.


unze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/16/2017, 03:48 PM   #19
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by unze View Post
That's great but I was referring to see each socket power reading on the ghl. versus seeing it all combined into one power reading like the Apex classic.


But the new apex allows each socket to monitor power draw so even when a socket is powered on doesn't mean it's drawing power so you can get alerted to equipment failures.


scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08/16/2017, 05:02 PM   #20
tygger
Registered Member
 
tygger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,635
If you're buying new, it makes sense to buy the 2016 for the extra features and the additional probe it comes with. The cost is negligible when you buy the add-ons to make the classic comparable.

However, if you're considering used, you can get a great deal on a classic.


__________________
15g Nano
72g reef + 29g sump/fuge
tygger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/2017, 08:58 PM   #21
Scrimpie
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 10
New is always better... I have a Apex Jr but ran out of space quick for the mods. I finally upgraded to the new version. I no longer need to have a separate netgear to plug into an outlet. Less clutter = better!


Scrimpie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 09:33 AM   #22
d0ughb0y
Registered Member
 
d0ughb0y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: sf bay area
Posts: 4,499
I don't know if op got a controller yet or not, but if you only want the essentials, the classic works just fine and is all you will need. Of course if you "want" the new one, then that's another story and by all means you should get the new one.

the only thing you will really need as far as sensor is a temp and ph probe. The others, novelty will wear out eventually. Also search for conductivity probe issues, you will get tons of result. If you don't have wired Ethernet near your tank, you can now get a WiFi ap/repeater device for $10 or less. The amp/current monitor on the classic, let's just say, is not accurate, perhaps due to AC load power factor. Not sure if it is the same for the new individual outlet monitor, but I would not be surprised if it is. A simple device like kill-a-watt is able to get the real power usage and the VA power usage, but yet the apex cannot.

Most devices now like pumps and lights use their own controller so there is less use for the controller outlets so 8 outlets will be plenty.


d0ughb0y is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM   #23
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,836
Classic vs 2016 Neptune apex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0ughb0y View Post
I don't know if op got a controller yet or not, but if you only want the essentials, the classic works just fine and is all you will need. Of course if you "want" the new one, then that's another story and by all means you should get the new one.

the only thing you will really need as far as sensor is a temp and ph probe. The others, novelty will wear out eventually. Also search for conductivity probe issues, you will get tons of result. If you don't have wired Ethernet near your tank, you can now get a WiFi ap/repeater device for $10 or less. The amp/current monitor on the classic, let's just say, is not accurate, perhaps due to AC load power factor. Not sure if it is the same for the new individual outlet monitor, but I would not be surprised if it is. A simple device like kill-a-watt is able to get the real power usage and the VA power usage, but yet the apex cannot.

Most devices now like pumps and lights use their own controller so there is less use for the controller outlets so 8 outlets will be plenty.


You missed the point where you can now program logic into the monitoring socket draw. Like if socket 1 is drawing < 25 watts turn this off or email alert. I had a socket turned auto on but the pump is actually dead you can't test itfit that without without adding extra switches.


scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:36 AM   #24
d0ughb0y
Registered Member
 
d0ughb0y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: sf bay area
Posts: 4,499
^^^
lol, no I did not miss the point.
so the feature does not actually work (measure watts), so you just use it as on/off indicator to salvage the feature to justify the money paid. If it actually works to show the ACTUAL power usage, then I'd say there is real value to the feature. Like I said, the real well tested kill-a-watt can do it very well, so apex must be able to do it. It is not a technology issue, but a lack of engineering skill issue. They should just call it an "on/off" tester instead of current measurement.


d0ughb0y is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM   #25
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,836
Classic vs 2016 Neptune apex.

No this is not to monitor the watts it's for hey I have socket on but the pump actually failed so it's not drawing any current you can then have email sent to you saying check your return pump. How's that just justifying the new system?

I had this exact issue happen I thought my return was working but intact my pump burned out and died. Sure the socket is on but it's drawing no power. I never got alerted while I was away. With the new Apex I can get alerted. Hey socket 1 is drawing less than 100watts from when it normally is drawing this amount of watts.

I'm sure that killawatt will email you hey this socket is no longer drawing current.

With the individual socket power test you can create logic to know if you have an equipment failure. Like a power head failed not drawing the desire current/watts.



Last edited by scuzy; Yesterday at 11:36 AM.
scuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:28 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014