Changing Tropical Reef to Temperate FOWLR?

[scuba-al]

I live in New Jersey where, believe it or not, there's a plethora of marine life. I am personally sick of constantly restocking expensive reef fish when there's plenty of beautiful fish in my own backyard (literally). I have a 28 combined system with ~18 lbs of Tongan live rock with no fish in it currently and I am considering just switching completely to a native tank. I could move the tank to the basement (cooler air=cooler tank, my basement is about 65 degrees F), and in terms of live rock I would sell some of the rock I have now and go collect rock (preferably not granite). As for livestock, I would just collect invasive species (Asian shore crabs, mitten crabs) and the most common species (killiefish, hogchoker, puffers maybe?) and I would get a skimmer with the money from the (costly) live rock which I sell. Any thoughts?
I think it would be worth it...

[Gfoot2000]

you can carry a temperate disease through your collected fish to your currently reef inhabitant tank. geta fishing licence, dont do it as a solution to save money though, you should find the key root if the problem and fix it, they shoudnt be expendable just cuz you didnt pay for them

[scuba-al]

It really isn't to save money, I'm genuinely interested in marine biology and whatever I find when I go to the beach is simply amazing to me. And there's nothing in my tank now besides rock and sand, my royal gramma died
And I have a New Jersey Saltwater Fishing License. I certainly wasn't planning on treating these creatures like crap just because I didn't pay for them.

[billsreef]

I'm just a bit north of you on LI. Your right, plenty of cool marine life. The basement at 65 sounds good for most species you'll collect, and certainly any species typically found during the summer months. With the rock, I'd keep the base rock, sell off anything with coral growth etc. Add a few choice local rocks...it'll likely be all granite or quartz type stuff. It'll have great life on it, but rather solid, dense and heavy with poor filtering capabilities.

[scuba-al]

Thank you, there's no coral life (nano tanks seem to be notorious for that) so I'll be collecting some dense granite soon after I move the tank and test the water and such. This should be a fun expenditure...

[scuba-al]

I'll need a skimmer, won't I? The bacteria will have slower metabolisms at 65 degrees. I have a Nano JBJ 28 gallon with no sump (I refuse to deal with even more pumps). Any suggestions on which skimmer will fit on the back or in the overflow? Very few fit, and the ones that do are all crap ($20 pieces of plastic with no pumps). I need some suggestions... So far I've brought the tank to room temperature gradually (allow the bacteria to adjust). I just need to move the tank downstairs. Any skimmer ideas or even DIY stuff?

[billsreef]

I've never had issues with the biological filtration at 65 degrees. Takes a good bit cooler than that before you run into issues from slow bacteria

Skimmer wise on a tank that size without a sump, I'd either mod something cheap that fits, or just go with more frequent water changes. If your close enough to the water, you can use real SW for cheap

[scuba-al]

Thank you so much Billsreef! [This help is truly invaluable, I can't put a price tag on all of the great information here at RC.] I'm planning on making a cheap skimmer out of PVC pieces, an air pump, and basswood as well as vinyl tubing. I'm seeding my tank with NJ sand from Sandy Hook Bay and some plankton-filled water from a plankton trawl (a friend of mine has a plankton net ). I'm moving the tank downstairs to the basement tomorrow, from there it's just seeding the water then doing water testing!
Current Skimmer Plans:
(16" of 2" diameter PVC pipe. drill 1/5" hole 8" up from the bottom of the PVC pipe. insert a 1/4" diameter PVC elbow, pointing downward, into this hole and use superglue gel (cyano... based) to secure in. attach pvc converter (changes diameters) to top of pvc pipe from 2" diameter to 1/2" diameter and add 3" of 1/2" diameter PVC pipe over this and add collection cup. add airstone with basswood diffuser in bottom of open pvc pipe and submerge so water level is 1" above the top of the bent pvc elbow. add bracket to keep skimmer secure at current level and then, skim on.)

[scuba-al]

So I added the stuff! I caught the stuff from Sandy Hook Bay and ALL of it made the 45 minute ride back alive
The salinity in the bay was about 18 PSU's (practical salinity units, aka parts per thousand or ppt) while the ocean is 35 PSU's! Not too surprising considering the bay is basically one big estuary.
I "caught" algae (of course Ulva lactuca and some other kelp-like stuff; basically red, green, and brown algae). I used rubber bands and cotton string to bind the holdfasts of the algae which weren't attached to rocks to rocks so hopefully they'll attach. I couldn't find any suitably sized granite/quartz rocks so I took lots of pebbles and a few cups of wet sand instead.
In terms of livestock, I added 3 grass shrimp, about 30 mud snails (Ilyanassa obsoleta), 1 Atlantic silverside (Menidia menidia), and an Asian Shore Crab (Hemigrapsus sanguineus), which is an established but invasive species. I forgot to take a picture of the crab and not surprisingly, it immediately slipped among the rocks as soon as it went in the tank. The tank is still a tad bit silty as I had just been moving and adding stuff around. It'll settle out soon

Front view of the tank, let's hope the algae does well under these lights
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...627_200944.jpg
Side view. Some mud snails are visible on the glass (they seem to be nassarius snails with that distinctive "tusk")
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...627_201243.jpg
Mud snails (Ilyanassa obsoleta). Extraordinarily common in intertidal zones along Atlantic Coast of the US. Feed on dead stuff, detritus, and some algae.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...627_201237.jpg
Grass shrimp. Of the 3 grass shrimp, two were gravid (carrying eggs). They'll release the larvae soon, destined to be chopped up by the pump or eaten by the silverside.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...627_201216.jpg
Another grass shrimp.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...627_201038.jpg
Side view. I need more rock...
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...627_201103.jpg
Aaaaaand a final parting front view... Again, it's not 100% clear as these pictures were taken just hours after moving around rocks, adding sand, etc.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...627_201052.jpg
If anyone has any idea as to how to make macro-algae attach to rocks besides rubber-banding them to rocks, please share! I read glue and epoxy don't work (not too surprising).
How is it? I'm still putting together that skimmer, it's coming along. Please share any thoughts, ideas, concerns!

[billsreef]

Looks like a nice start

Ulva and the Fuscus (the brown branching stuff) are shallow intertidal algaes and really need very intense lighting...think sps sort of lighting needs. The Fuscus also needs daily exposure to air to do well long term, it's high intertidal and spends a lot of time exposed. I find it just doesn't do will without that exposure. The Ulva can grow fine without exposure so long as it gets enough light.

The reds are little less picky about light. For attaching, best I've found is to pin it with some rubble.

Watch out for that Asian Shore Crab, they are very destructive. I kill them things on sight. I've seen them decimate mussel beds

[scuba-al]

Thanks for following this! The ulva is turning white (except for 1 piece which receives the most current and light). I'm not sure how I'll get the fuscus (bladderwrack) out of water but I'll find a way. In terms of lighting, I'll probably need to either upgrade or drop the bladderwrack and ulva for just red algae Depends on if what I have fares well or not.

And what exactly do you mean by "pinning the algae to the rubble?" I placed the bottom of the stems or, if intact, the holdfasts, either into the coarse sand or I rubber banded the stems/holdfasts to rocks.

The Asian Shore Crab is ... egregious but not at the same time. It's the only thing big enough in the tank to make the hills and tunnels under the rocks which I see, but I've only seen him once in the past two days. I even checked at night with a flashlight to no avail. I'll be replacing him with something less destructive (sea star, hogchoker) on my next collecting trip which will be in two weeks or so. Hogchokers are everywhere in Sandy Hook Bay (they actually rely on the low salinity of the bay for permanent residence), and I have a seining net

I also found a few interesting hitchhikers. Besides the typical herbivorous isopods and amphipods (scuds) camouflaged in the seaweed, there's also a TINY (1/4" across max) sea anemone! When I was out collecting, a log lodged into the jetty was festooned in sea anemones. Depending on how the tiny one does, I may cut off a piece of wood for a real anemone (just where the anemone is attached). They aren't frilled anemones; there's a mixture of striped anemones (from Japan) and native ghost anemones, at least on that log (http://ux.brookdalecc.edu/staff/sand...ld/limulus.htm). They're so pretty

[AquaticEngineer]

Very cool little tank

I'm doing some large temperate / coldwater tanks. I have two 110 gallon tanks up right now and I'm working on plumbing in a 300 gallon.

[scuba-al]

What do you have stocked in them? (Pictures if you can, I need some additional ideas and inspiration)

[huig]

I have 2 coldwater systems (check my albums)

I' ve never been able to keep Fuscus alive, and my tank has direct sunlight as it is outdoors, I think they need 'dry time' to survive. The Ulva is rather easy to keep.

[scuba-al]

beautiful tanks! The fuscus is slowly dying (as are the barnacles on them). A shame, I'll start throwing them out. The reds are doing fine; there's no growth, death, or loss in color so I guess they're ok so far. Only one Ulva is still alive (from a total of three or four) but that one is thriving. I'll collect more Ulva and reds when I go back to get an actual fish, I still need to decide on which species to target.

[huig]

Thanks

Barnacles need to be fed otherwise they starve at cold temperatures this takes quite long.
In winter when plankton levels are low they are more or less fasted.

As for fish try and get your hands on Pholis gunnellus.

Really nice fish, but make sure temperature is below 18 °C

[scuba-al]

My tank is ~65 F, that's about 18.33 C. Pholis gunnellus aren't native to NJ and no place offers them up for sale... It's a shame, they're beautiful :P

Considering I have a 28 gallon total system but really a 24 gallon area for fish, I'm limited in terms of "native fish," unless I'm willing to return some to the sea. Which I am.

As for fish which are small enough to keep for their entire life in my tank, there are: killiefish (genus Fundulus); Menidia menidia (can be surprisingly hard to keep as are sensitive); sticklebacks; pinfish? (Lagodon rhomboides); scup/porgy; gobies; sculpins (cool looking, grow small); and possibly a puffer, if I start it out small.

As for fish where I can replace them, there are: various juvenile flatfish (fluke, winter flounder, windowpane, and my favorite, hogchokers); pufferfish; northern kingfish; oyster toadfish; spot/croaker; silver perch; sea robin (BEAUTIFUL); and a few more.

I have a variegated choice for my tank

[Flaring Afro]

Originally Posted by scuba-al

My tank is ~65 F, that's about 18.33 C. Pholis gunnellus aren't native to NJ and no place offers them up for sale... It's a shame, they're beautiful :P

Considering I have a 28 gallon total system but really a 24 gallon area for fish, I'm limited in terms of "native fish," unless I'm willing to return some to the sea. Which I am.

As for fish which are small enough to keep for their entire life in my tank, there are: killiefish (genus Fundulus); Menidia menidia (can be surprisingly hard to keep as are sensitive); sticklebacks; pinfish? (Lagodon rhomboides); scup/porgy; gobies; sculpins (cool looking, grow small); and possibly a puffer, if I start it out small.

As for fish where I can replace them, there are: various juvenile flatfish (fluke, winter flounder, windowpane, and my favorite, hogchokers); pufferfish; northern kingfish; oyster toadfish; spot/croaker; silver perch; sea robin (BEAUTIFUL); and a few more.

I have a variegated choice for my tank

You can't return fish to the wild. You can destroy the entire area doing that. Also, most of those fish are way too big for a tank that size...

[huig]

For the Pholis you need to go up north. Make it a collection trip!
Too bad here you can easily catch up to 20 in an hour.

I' ve already have driven 1300 km to get me some fish.

Do you have native pipefish?

[eddiesylas]

Originally Posted by scuba-al

I'll need a skimmer, won't I?

If you are still thinking about a skimmer. many JBJ people upgrade to a AquaC Remora with 1200 pump.

Tank looks great. Do the snails stay put or do they leave the tank?

[billsreef]

The gunnels do range south to LI, so you might find some in NJ. Might need to dive and look in somewhat deeper (cooler) water for them. With things like the flatfish, porgies and anything else considered either a commercial or gamefish species, you need to be aware of open seasons and size limits.

[scuba-al]

Update: I caught that darn Asian shore crab after it moulted and ... sacrificed it. I know that I shouldn't release it (invasive species) sooo... it's shrimp food now. I took out all the bladderwart (aka fuscus) because it was seriously starting to wilt and die despite daily air exposure. One piece of Ulva is still thriving *knock on wood*. Also the silverside died, they're amazingly delicate. No wonder you never see live in bait shops.

As for the skimmer.... I'm contemplating over it and thanks for the tip!

f Native pipefish? Yeah. However, they're extremely delicate and (according to my friend) never survive in captivity for any appreciable times so I will not be trying them

Thanks for the compliment! The mud snails (actually a type of nassarius snail!) have a propensity towards going to the top, I'd say that at any one time 1/4 of the snails are towards the top but are never completely OUT of the water. Otherwise, they're in the rocks and are buried in the sand. There's a few whelks (small species, not knobbed whelks)/nerites and they plow through all sorts of algae and never leave the water.

As for the gunnels... I have a SCUBA license. Based on pictures I've seen on NJ dive sites, there are no gunnels but if I really look... They're beautiful otherwise!

(In pictures) I have seen horseshoe crabs (grow to 2 ft long and are threatened); frilled anemones EVERYWHERE; little gobies and minnows; the aforementioned game fish... blah.

When I get back from Florida, I'm going on a seining/snorkeling trip for some stuff in Sandy Hook Bay, I'm a budding marine biologist. Will update more pictures when I get the stuff.

[billsreef]

The trick to pipefish is keeping them fed. No worse than Seahorses. So that means lots of dedication to feeding

For the Pholis, try areas with good mussel beds. Something ocean side such as along a jetty at one of the inlets would be a good place to look. Otherwise, if you find yourself coming up to LI for any reason, I can take you diving at Ponquogue bridge...can pretty much guarantee a few gunnels there. Saw several nice ones last weekend.

[scuba-al]

I think that I would be okay with pipefish it's just that I travel frequently and I don't necessarily trust my family in terms of frequently feeding the fish.

Avon, Belmar, and the Shrewsbury Rocks (boat necessary) have some nice mussel beds in NJ, the first two will need mask and snorkel, Shrewsbury Rocks are risky as there's a lot of fishermen (the arch nemesis of divers). I'm going to the beach sometime this week so I will keep it updated. Sandy Hook has one good jetty but it's a national park so I shouldn't be taking stuff.

And I must ask: what makes Pholis so great? I imagine they're easy to feed (worms, crustaceans, small fish) and they look great. But besides that, is there anything else? Does anyone have experience keeping them? Thanks

[billsreef]

I can understand not trusting family to keep up on feeding a pipefish

Pholis are just a neat looking eel like (but not eels) fish. Worms and small crustaceans like amphipods and the like are indeed the trick to feeding them. I have gotten them to eat frozen foods as well, but that tends to take a bit of time. They are pretty mild mannered, so can be kept with anything that won't try and eat them